Why was there no intro speech in Voy or DS9?

[shadow55]

When I first watched through all the trek series - TNG first, then TOS - followed by the others, I was a little disappointed that DS9, Voyager and Enterprise didn't have the little 'These are the Voyages of...' speech.

Fair enough Enterprise had a lyrical song which did make it more engaging (even though I understand this wasn't to everyone's liking), but I think it would have been quite nice for them to put something at the start of DS9 and Voyager.

The intro sequences are about 1 minute 30 each, and I just think it would have been nice to have a little mission statement or something added into it.

What do you lot think? And in future series if they ever decide to properly air one again, do you hope to see/hear one of these again?

 

[MacLeod]

Opening monolouges are fine, but a show doesn't have to have one.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

VOY would've suited one, setting up the show so that even new viewers understood what they were facing. As for DS9, I'm not really sure what theirs would be--B5 fans could accuse DS9 of stealing the idea from them though.

 

[trekker670]

It was considered for ENT, but ultimately dropped. There was an alternate opening posted on StarTrek.com back when ENT was on air or shortly after it was cancelled that gave us a look at it, and included Bakula reciting the monologue, there are several fan edits that use the monologue from that version.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVkSwgDDuuM[/yt]

IMO DS9 and VOY rightfully didn't use the monologue, that was the mission of the Enterprise (as seen on the dedication plaques). Yes, they could have had other monologues, specific to DS9 or VOY, but I believe that the idea of an opening monologue is now outdated.

The origin was to set up the back story of a TV series (think pretty much any show from the 60s-80s including Quantum Leap, A-Team, or even the Brady Bunch theme). This is pretty unusual to see in today's shows though, so it may have made to latter series seem outdated.

 

[Ethros]

^ Prefer ENT without, I like that the speech Kirk & Picard use comes from a combination of speeches by Zefram Cochrane in 2119-
"On this site, a powerful engine will be built. An engine that will someday help us travel a hundred times faster than we can today. Imagine it. Thousands of inhabited planets at our fingertips. And we'll be able to explore those strange new worlds and seek out new life and new civilizations. This engine will let us go boldly where no man has gone before."

and Jonathan Archer in 2155-
"...We are all explorers, driven to know what's over the horizon, what's beyond our own shores. And yet, the more I've experienced, the more I've learned that no matter how far we travel, or how fast we get there, the most profound discoveries are not necessarily beyond that next star. They're within us, woven into the threads that bind us, all of us, to each other. The final frontier begins in this hall. Let's explore it together."



As for one for DS9 or VOY, if it would be as awful as the one for Crusade, then I'm glad they didn't!
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWa-PiyFQH0[/yt]

 

[shadow55]

Lol, I don't think anything could have been worse than that Crusade one...

It was considered for ENT, but ultimately dropped. There was an alternate opening posted on StarTrek.com back when ENT was on air or shortly after it was cancelled that gave us a look at it, and included Bakula reciting the monologue, there are several fan edits that use the monologue from that version.


IMO DS9 and VOY rightfully didn't use the monologue, that was the mission of the Enterprise (as seen on the dedication plaques). Yes, they could have had other monologues, specific to DS9 or VOY, but I believe that the idea of an opening monologue is now outdated.

The origin was to set up the back story of a TV series (think pretty much any show from the 60s-80s including Quantum Leap, A-Team, or even the Brady Bunch theme). This is pretty unusual to see in today's shows though, so it may have made to latter series seem outdated.

The monologue wasn't really the Enterprise's mission, it established it in Enterprise that it was the speech by Cochrane after the warp flight, and the recent JJ Abrams films says it's just 'the captain's oath', although I trust you all discount any references made by the new films.

As for the Enterprise alternate opening one, is that official? Not too sure why they say 'continuing voyages' in it, when Enterprise is meant to be the first Enterprise - maybe Berman and Braga just forgot about that

I still just think it would have been nice for DS9 and Voyager. At least Voyager's intro sequence was interesting on its own and had a good theme, but I'm glad I have them downloaded and therefore the option to be able to just skip the intros - it would really have annoyed me having to sit through DS9's intro every week if on TV.

 

[Cyke101]

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVkSwgDDuuM[/yt]

I don't mind Archer giving the speech or the alternative footage, but that theme with that composition sounds exactly like the kind of music that Family Guy would riff -- cheesy but trying hard to be cool and edgy (the guitar and drums), very much 1980s.

 

[trekker670]

The monologue wasn't really the Enterprise's mission, it established it in Enterprise that it was the speech by Cochrane after the warp flight, and the recent JJ Abrams films says it's just 'the captain's oath', although I trust you all discount any references made by the new films.

I'm not sure why you say it wasn't the mission of the Enterprise. The Enterprise clearly sought out new life and new civilizations, and that was its primary mission for the post part.

I believe it could easily fit all of these explanations. Cochrane originally said it, it was the mission of the Enterprise, and it was adopted as the Captain's Oath.

As for the Enterprise alternate opening one, is that official? Not too sure why they say 'continuing voyages' in it, when Enterprise is meant to be the first Enterprise - maybe Berman and Braga just forgot about that

It's "official" in that it was recorded, but not used, for the show. So it's as "official" as a deleted scene or alternate shot. The line you mentioned was actually "her continuing mission," which I think is still accurate. The mission itself was not given a defined length, so it's an ongoing mission. Much like TOS used "5-year mission."

I don't mind Archer giving the speech or the alternative footage, but that theme with that composition sounds exactly like the kind of music that Family Guy would riff -- cheesy but trying hard to be cool and edgy (the guitar and drums), very much 1980s.

It was part of the soundtrack. That's "Archer's Theme," it a different arrangement than what was used for the closing credits, but I believe the version in that video was taken directly from a scene from "Broken Bow."

 

[shadow55]

I'm not sure why you say it wasn't the mission of the Enterprise. The Enterprise clearly sought out new life and new civilizations, and that was its primary mission for the post part.

I believe it could easily fit all of these explanations. Cochrane originally said it, it was the mission of the Enterprise, and it was adopted as the Captain's Oath.

It's "official" in that it was recorded, but not used, for the show. So it's as "official" as a deleted scene or alternate shot. The line you mentioned was actually "her continuing mission," which I think is still accurate. The mission itself was not given a defined length, so it's an ongoing mission. Much like TOS used "5-year mission."

It was part of the soundtrack. That's "Archer's Theme," it a different arrangement than what was used for the closing credits, but I believe the version in that video was taken directly from a scene from "Broken Bow."

Sorry - I probably wasn't too clear. Your initial post came across as 'it was the mission of the Enterprise' as in - that was the Enterprises mission alone so no one else was allowed to use it. I'm not saying Voyager and DS9 should have used the exact same one at all, just think it would have been nice to have a premise to them.

My point about the 'continuing mission' (thanks for correcting me) still stands though. This intro was obviously produced before the pilot, and therefore before the Enterprise was even launched. TNG is only 'continuing' because it follows on from Kirk's 5 year mission. Archer's should just be 'mission'. Anyway - probably best not to get bogged down by grammar

I meant official in the sense of it being made by the producers of the show themselves as opposed to fan made or whatever else.

I just always liked the intros as they provided quite a nice premise for the show.

 

[Greg Cox]

I don't think they were necessary. Voyager had probably the best Trek credits sequence ever, with great music and visuals. The lack of an opening monologue didn't hurt it one bit.

 

[Christopher]

I recall that when DS9 was on the air, I sometimes speculated about what an opening narration for it might be. Never came up with anything solid, though. And it would've had to change in later seasons anyway.

As for Voyager, how about...

Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale,
A tale of a fateful trip
That started from the Badlands zone
Aboard this Starfleet ship!

...Or not.

The origin was to set up the back story of a TV series (think pretty much any show from the 60s-80s including Quantum Leap, A-Team, or even the Brady Bunch theme). This is pretty unusual to see in today's shows though, so it may have made to latter series seem outdated.

Actually it's quite common these days for shows to open with montage/narration sequences explaining the premise and storyline; they're just no longer part of the main titles. Heck, every show I watch on The CW opens with a premise-exposition montage followed by a "Previously" recap -- and most of them begin with the main character saying "My name is," following Arrow's precedent, I guess.

One current show that does still have the expository narration as part of the main titles is Person of Interest.

 

[trekker670]

My point about the 'continuing mission' (thanks for correcting me) still stands though. This intro was obviously produced before the pilot, and therefore before the Enterprise was even launched. TNG is only 'continuing' because it follows on from Kirk's 5 year mission. Archer's should just be 'mission'. Anyway - probably best not to get bogged down by grammar

My interpretation, since I first started watching TNG, was that the TNG crew didn't have set duration for their mission, whereas the TOS crew were on mission that was set to last a total of 5 years (which, obviously got extended at some point based on the TOS movies).

I didn't mean my correction as nitpicking grammar, but rather a difference of interpretation in the meaning of that portion of the monologue, both of which I think have merit.

I meant official in the sense of it being made by the producers of the show themselves as opposed to fan made or whatever else.

I just always liked the intros as they provided quite a nice premise for the show.

The particular one I linked to may be a fan made one (I'm not sure), but the fact that the narration exists and that a version of the video was posted on the Official Star Trek site at the time the show was one, leads me to believe that it had at least some standing with the producers of the show.

I agree, I like the intros and the story, I think, helps make the intros more memorable.

Actually it's quite common these days for shows to open with montage/narration sequences explaining the premise and storyline; they're just no longer part of the main titles. Heck, every show I watch on The CW opens with a premise-exposition montage followed by a "Previously" recap -- and most of them begin with the main character saying "My name is," following Arrow's precedent, I guess.

One current show that does still have the expository narration as part of the main titles is Person of Interest.

I get the point that's you're getting at, but I (personally) consider them two different things. In TOS, TNG, Quantum Leap, Brady Bunch, Gilligan's Island, etc. the main title sequence song/narration set up the basic premise of the entire show. It set the overall setting of the show.

The newer "previously on..." is a recap of specific story lines related to this weeks episode. I would argue that the vast majority of these (perhaps all) are clips from prior episodes, rather than a narration directed at the audience. This is an adaptation on the "last time" sequences that have always been used in multi-part episodes (think pretty much any Trek 2-parter that aired as separate episodes, or most of DS9 S5-7 and ENT S3-4).

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

NuBSG had a great narration.

Bab5, that probably sounds cheesy to some people but it gives me chills.

I'm thinking VOY and DS9, would have been nice to get away from "Space, the final.." and have something brand new. But they both had great opening music and visuals so I never felt like anything was missing.

 

[Christopher]

My point about the 'continuing mission' (thanks for correcting me) still stands though. This intro was obviously produced before the pilot, and therefore before the Enterprise was even launched. TNG is only 'continuing' because it follows on from Kirk's 5 year mission. Archer's should just be 'mission'. Anyway - probably best not to get bogged down by grammar

My interpretation, since I first started watching TNG, was that the TNG crew didn't have set duration for their mission, whereas the TOS crew were on mission that was set to last a total of 5 years (which, obviously got extended at some point based on the TOS movies).

I agree. The TNG mission can't be "continuing from TOS," because it's a century after TOS. "Continuing" means that it's continuous, and a hundred-year gap is rather disqualifying for that. It was continuing in the sense that it was ongoing.

The newer "previously on..." is a recap of specific story lines related to this weeks episode.

No, as I said, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the series-premise recap that comes before the "Previously" montage -- what's also known as the "saga sell." Most CW shows, if not all, have them. For instance, Arrow (season 1 version): "My name is Oliver Queen. For five years I was stranded on an island with only one goal: survive. Now I will fulfill my father's dying wish: to use the list of names he left me and bring down those who are poisoning my city. To do this, I must become someone else; I must become something else." Many series today have something like that: An opening narration/montage that's the same every week, defining the basic premise of the show, followed by the "Previously" recap that's different every week and focuses on events directly relevant to the specific episode. But since they tend to come consecutively, I can understand how some viewers could miss the distinction.

Even shows without "Previously" recaps have "saga sell" openings. Firefly had two different ones by network mandate, though they aren't included on the DVDs. Doctor Who had one added for season 6 in the US, with Amy Pond narrating about how she had an imaginary friend in a box who came back for her "and we've been running ever since." Torchwood and The Sarah Jane Adventures used them in their original UK versions. The past few Power Rangers seasons have used them -- even though Power Rangers Megaforce hardly needed one, since it was basically just "Evil threatens our world and the Power Rangers protect us," the most generic saga sell possible.

So there are still plenty of shows that do this -- they just usually do it separately from the main title sequence rather than within it. Either it's saga sell -> "Previously" -> cold open -> main titles, or saga sell -> cold open -> main titles.

 

[FormerLurker]

Or, to use "Game of Thrones" as a for instance, "Previously"(usually unspoken) > main titles > cold open.

In "Game of Thrones"' case, in fact, the main titles take the viewer on a tour of locations on a map, showing them where all the action will take place in that episode.

 

[Christopher]

^Sure, there are shows without "saga sells," but I was focusing on the shows that do use them, pointing out that sometimes they lead right into the episode recaps and sometimes they just lead into the cold open.

I still find it bizarre -- it used to be that a main title sequence would include the cast credits and often the saga sell/premise description, but these days those things have split into three -- the saga sell on its own, followed by a brief main-title card without any credits, followed by the credits being shown over the first act. That's so inefficient.

One of the things I like about Sleepy Hollow is that it actually has a proper main title with cast credits and a theme tune -- but it still opens with a separate saga-sell intro, which just seems to add unnecessarily to the runtime. Why not just have the narration over the main titles?