Why isn't Star Trek a big movie franchise?

[The Wormhole]

Really, what has Paramount or Bad Robot even done to try to capitalize on Star Trek? After Trek XI was released and did well in the box office, there was nothing. Starting April 2009 Orci was promising a script would be done "by the end of the month" which was in fact not finished until November 2011. And in the meantime, the property was pretty much squandered. Okay, fine, it takes time to make a movie, and in fact even with the MCU we do have a few years between movies in the same series. But how are they spending those in-between years? The MCU has other movies from its other series out, Star Wars has novels, comics, and the "Anthology Series" movies. But Star Trek? Sure we got the steady stream of novels set in the Prime Universe, but immediately after Trek XI's release, what was there to support that movie? A comic miniseries was released a few months later to embellish Nero's backstory, but that's it in 2009. 2010 was rather lackluster with a one year late comic adaptation of XI and then the infamous incident of the novels being mysteriously pulled without explanation. There were four YA novels released sporadically between 2010 and 2012, but it wouldn't be until fall 2011, two and a half years after Trek XI's release that we get a regular ongoing comic series launched, and that has been the only thing released between STID and Beyond.

Personally, I think the situation with the novels isn't helping things. Pulling the 2010 ones without explanation when they had blurbs covers public and were available for pre-order plus Bad Robot's continued alienation of Pocket Books to the extent that Pocket actually isn't allowed to reference the destruction of Romulus in their Prime Universe novel continuity is not helping these movies at all.

Someone needs to slap the shit out of whichever CBS exec who points at charts claiming "According to this, the action figures from the 2009 movie didn't sell, so we're just giving up completely"

Actually, ever since the Playmates line of the 90s ended, Star Trek action figures haven't been that great sellers. Art Asylum's lines based on Enterprise and Nemesis did so poorly they nearly bankrupted the company, while DST's lines for TOS, TNG, and DS9 were decent but not amazing sales.

Sounds exactly like Into Darkness.

In so many ways, STID and Winter Soldier are essentially the same movie.

 

[urbandefault]

The reason Trek isn't big like Star Wars may have something to do with public perception of the fans.

I think the movie going public doesn't want to have to wade through what they think will be a crowd of costumed goobers flashing Vulcan gang signs and stinking up the joint.

Exaggeration, obviously, but you grok my talk.

 

[Relayer1]

In so many ways, STID and Winter Soldier are essentially the same movie.

Except that Winter Soldier is probably the best Marvel movie, and STID...

 

[The Wormhole]

Except that Winter Soldier is probably the best Marvel movie, and STID...

Honestly, Winter Soldier is my least favourite MCU movie.

 

[donners22]

Lack of appeal to kids doesn't help. Kids drag along parents, bring along mates and go to see it because they hear other kids talking about it.

I was one of few kids in the cinemas for the TNG films, and there don't seem to be any more now.

Then there's limited appeal outside the US. TMP was the only TOS film to make any real impact outside the US box office. The TNG films improved a bit, and the Kelvin films further still (albeit helped by the rise of the Chinese box office), but they don't get anywhere near the non-US percentage of the big film franchises.

More fundamentally, Trek was never in the league of the big franchises like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Mission: Impossible and the like even at its peak, so why would we expect it to be now?

Except that Winter Soldier is probably the best Marvel movie, and STID...

...is one of the best Trek movies.

 

[Hey Missy]

CBS should make a deal with a company that can produce figures with decent likenesses (like DST) that can also be played with (like Playmates).
Character Options' 5" Doctor Who line was able to get that down.

 

[fireproof78]

This, I'm sorry but I just don't buy into the idea that the Kelvinverse has delivered, or even tried to deliver, on the aspects which made the shows great. They're pushed the big bangs and sexy, but ironically failed next to the MCU which has done a better job on that front AND given more intellectual content.

I disagree. I think that 09 capitalized on all of the things that I loved about TOS as a kid, and then sped it up to 11.
As for MCU, there is a much longer term game at play with Marvel. They have their films planned out and in different phases. They are looking at the short term and the long term, and even if they have a flop (they've had several) they are still moving forward.

I also think both have intellectual content to offer, and I think Kelvinverse can offer more in some cases. YMMV, etc, etc.

Lack of appeal to kids doesn't help. Kids drag along parents, bring along mates and go to see it because they hear other kids talking about it.

I was one of few kids in the cinemas for the TNG films, and there don't seem to be any more now.

Then there's limited appeal outside the US. TMP was the only TOS film to make any real impact outside the US box office. The TNG films improved a bit, and the Kelvin films further still (albeit helped by the rise of the Chinese box office), but they don't get anywhere near the non-US percentage of the big film franchises.

More fundamentally, Trek was never in the league of the big franchises like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Mission: Impossible and the like even at its peak, so why would we expect it to be now?

I was thinking about this, since I've been in to all three franchises and certainly have purchased a fair share of toys and the like.

Here's a think I noticed about Star Trek vs. Star Wars or Lord of the Rings in terms of merchandising. Star Wars figures are fairly unique, and have something about them that stands out. You can see Luke or Han or Vader or any one of the numerous supporting characters because they are unique.

Similarly, with LOTR, each character had their own weapon, their own ability, and the like. Again, like a fantasy team, they are visibly recognizable, which means that kids can quickly identify with them and pick out their favorites. You also have personal starships, from Luke' X-Wing, Vader's TIE, a snowspeeder and the Outrider, plus all kinds of aliens and monsters. The possibilities felt limitless against identifiable bad guys.


In contrast, Star Trek felt larger, and less cut and dry. You didn't have the personal feel because, they all dressed similarly, used the same equipment (how many multi-colored tricorders do I need, Playmates!). The only ship available was a shuttlecraft. There was world building, sure, but there wasn't the quick identification or the feeling that you could do that. Heck, when I had the Mego figures with the clothe uniforms, I thought the communicators were soap bars.

Star Trek has a different feel. Even as a kid I noticed this. My Star Trek figures didn't fit in with the Star Wars ones, and the options for play felt very limited. If you had the money, you could get the shuttles or the playsets. However,

CBS should make a deal with a company that can produce figures with decent likenesses (like DST) that can also be played with (like Playmates).
Character Options' 5" Doctor Who line was able to get that down.

They've tried. They've tried several options. But, again, specialty shops are were they end up, and the market isn't kind to those right now.

 

[Spot261]

The reason Trek isn't big like Star Wars may have something to do with public perception of the fans.

I think the movie going public doesn't want to have to wade through what they think will be a crowd of costumed goobers flashing Vulcan gang signs and stinking up the joint.

Exaggeration, obviously, but you grok my talk.

Is that how the world sees us?

Sits down in the corner and sobs quietly.

 

[Khan 2.0]

Trek seemed quite 'cool' movie wise for about 5 years post ST09 ..and before that First Contact in 96.. and before that maybe the Trek I-IV period (although not so much post TMP/pre TWOK, but before TMP came out it must've been 'cool' that Trek was coming back in such a big way)

 

[Tenacity]

The Winter Winter Soldier and Civil War in particular both raised questions about the extent of government power, justifying infringements on civil liberties, the intrusive nature of law enforcement and legislation, the validity of globalising domestic power bases in response to threats that do not recognise sovereign boundaries.

At the end of Winter Soldier I felt proud of Steve Rogers and the position that he took. I don't remember feeling the same about James Kirk at the end of any of the resent movies.

ST'09 gave us the most blatant "coming out" allegory I've ever seen.

Which allegory do you mean?

you never see Star Trek toys or merchandise in any store

Doll Kirk: "Let's go sign this fair trade treaty."
Doll Spock: "While maintaining strict adherence to the prime directive.

Trek isn't 'hot' for casual cinemagoers in the same way as Star Wars and Marvel

Star Trek does get respectible box office, but the excitement just isn't at the same level. Standing in line for last year's Star Wars, I saw people just about jumping out of their skins to see it, especially the children.

I know diehard Star Trek fans who didn't "bother" to see Beyond in the theaters.

The reason Trek isn't big like Star Wars may have something to do with public perception of the fans.

A crowd of busty cosplaying "Slave Leia's" beats out a similar number of Trekkies in their Starfleet uniforms.

Plus I can't remember anyone showing up for jury duty dressed as Han Solo.

 

[Spot261]

Which allegory do you mean?

Im really glad you asked, I was a little embarrassed at not knowing myself

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Thing is, Star Trek Beyond is Paramount's highest grossing film this year at $343 million worldwide.

1. STB
2. TMNT 2
3. Jack Reacher 2
4. 10 Cloverfield
5. Ben-Hurr

Paramount didn't have many hitters this year, and it seems people just didn't go to see any of their movies. STB was great, but I don't think Paramount advertised the movie very well. My family is full of Trekkies and none of them knew there was a new Trek film this year.

 

[Khan 2.0]

Thing is, Star Trek Beyond is Paramount's highest grossing film this year at $334 million worldwide.

1. STB
2. TMNT 2
3. Jack Reacher 2
4. 10 Cloverfield
5. Ben-Hurr

Paramount didn't have many hitters this year, and it seems people just didn't go to see any of their movies. STB was great, but I don't think Paramount advertised the movie very well. My family is full of Trekkies and none of them knew there was a new Trek film this year.

STB currently at $343.3 (can it make it to 345?)

 

[M.A.C.O.]

STB currently at $343.3 (can it make it to 345?)

Oops. I typed the 4 and the 3 in wrong place. I'll correct it. Thanks.

 

[VulcanMindBlown]

Star Trek is meant to be plowed into time and time again.

One huge score doesn't work in order to develop personalities, plot events, and explore worlds.

 

[The Wormhole]

Lack of appeal to kids doesn't help. Kids drag along parents, bring along mates and go to see it because they hear other kids talking about it.

I was one of few kids in the cinemas for the TNG films, and there don't seem to be any more now.

Hell, when I saw Beyond, aside from myself and three or four others the theatre was filled by people in their fifties or sixties, and they were stereotypical old people complaining about the theatre being too big, having to walk so far to their seats, lack of any railing once you get past a certain point in the theatre, and even the movie being too loud. And this is at the first showing on opening day! Even Nemesis had many people in their twenties or thirties in the theatre.

Thing is, Star Trek Beyond is Paramount's highest grossing film this year at $343 million worldwide.

1. STB
2. TMNT 2
3. Jack Reacher 2
4. 10 Cloverfield
5. Ben-Hurr

Paramount didn't have many hitters this year, and it seems people just didn't go to see any of their movies. STB was great, but I don't think Paramount advertised the movie very well. My family is full of Trekkies and none of them knew there was a new Trek film this year.

This is another good point, Paramount is doing a piss-poor job in general this year, and the fact that Beyond has done as well as it has in a testament to Trek's legacy.

That being said, who the hell thinks it's a good idea to stay so quiet about these movies? Abrams himself even admitted the ubersecrecy surrounding Cumberbatch in STID was a mistake, and then come Beyond barely any promotional work was done again. In fact, nothing was being said about the movie outside of Trek circles until Anton Yelchin's death, which was just about a month prior to the film's release. When were they planning to start promoting the movie? There's already more buzz regarding the young Han Solo Star Wars movie due out in 2018 than there was about Beyond in May of this year. Consider that for a moment. Does Paramount even want to make money anymore? I'm really not sure.

 

[Desert Kris]

I know diehard Star Trek fans who didn't "bother" to see Beyond in the theaters.

I'd like to focus on this for a moment. I have a friend who is a long time, old school Trek fan, who liked the first two of these newer movies just fine, we talked about them for hours. Yet he didn't bother with Beyond, and expressed no interest in seeing it in the theater, or after it came out on video. Had no ambition to chase it down in any format. When I asked him why he was apathetic about seeing it, he couldn't really put his finger on why he didn't care, and he's usually a very self aware and precisely analytical person. I even felt a little bit of detatchment, yet still went to see it. I liked it just fine, however, there's a few reasons I took a few moments to write some stuff in the "Beyond A Missed Opportunity?" Thread. I don't know if it's Beyond by itself, but Beyond at the end of the three movie sequence, with Beyond's faults adding to an overall impression from all three movies. Fan negativity has been dispiriting and fatiguing, but that's a small aspect. I agree with some who feel that curtailed support extras such as the novels and the toys leave the movies feeling neglected, and the gap between movies killed story telling momentum, and failed to keep the audiences attention. Is there something else, I wonder...?

 

[VOODOOXI]

I guess it depends on how you define big...Historically the film series has been pretty successful. Surely not on the same level as Star Wars or Harry Potter, but successful in it's own right.

If you were to look back at the Shatner/Nimoy films and adjust for inflation they actually were "big"/event films that usually ranked in the top ten films of the year that they were released domestically...Compare those films to James Bond films of the same era and you will find that Star Trek often out performed those 007 films domestically.

There is no doubt that Star Trek V was a dud (both critically and commercially) that hurt the franchise. By the time that the films turned to the TNG crew, the series was staring to be oversaturated. Having two series (of varying quality) on tv at the same time as well as motion pictures in the theatre, the product was becoming watered down and the box office results were conformation of that...Star Trek was no longer an event...TNG went away with a whimper rather than a bang. Nemesis is by far the biggest ST dud at the box office.

By the time ST 09 was released (a film that brought back the series most iconic characters) Star Trek was an event again. The film was given a director and a budget worthy of the legendary franchise and the film thrived at the box office. Star Trek was back in business due in no small part to J.J. Abrams reimagining the series for a modern/broader audience.

I would argue that the franchise shot itself in the foot by waiting four years in between films (lost some of it's momentum in a society that has a 30 second attention span) with Star Trek: Into Darkness.

Into Darkness (despite a lot of fans not liking it) actually did fairly well with $228,602,808 at the domestic box office, but more importantly the series started to gain a significant foreign box office (foreign box office was nowhere near as important when the original films were released + ST was never a major player in most places outside of the United States) with an additional $238,602,808 coming from overseas. Things were still looking up.

Star Trek: Beyond was a pretty big disappointment with only $158,848,340 at the domestic box office and $184,474,551 coming from overseas...The film only made $53% of Star Trek 09...That said, there were major problems with the marketing of this film. Even the studio has been rumored to acknowledge this internally. Admittedly, I wasn't a fan of Beyond, (i seem to be in the minority here) but it should have done better at the box office. I think one has no farther to look than the marketing of Beyond to understand why it underwhelmed at the box office.

Star Trek is never going to do Star Wars type box office. It's just not as universal as Star Wars is. That said, it's not really fair to say that Star Trek hasn't been a "big" franchise in it's own right...Bigger at times than others.

 

[Smellmet]

Is that how the world sees us?

Sits down in the corner and sobs quietly.

Yeah it is unfortunately. I've mentioned this before in another thread, but when I told my workmates I was off to the flicks to see STB, several of them made faces at me followed by the old chestnut of 'are you going to wear an outfit' and various other mockery that consisted of calling me a 'geek' and making vulcan salutes. I thought 'really? people still think this crap?' It was pretty depressing.

The thing is, I don't see what more Bad Robot could have done with these three movies to make them appeal to a wider audience than the previous stuff without destroying what made Trek what it is, and they've sailed pretty close to the wind with some of the creative choices they've made as it is. If this is to be the end, and I really hope it isn't as I think this crew deserves another shot, then at least I've got three excellent Blu Rays sat on my shelf.

 

[Khan 2.0]

The thing is, I don't see what more Bad Robot could have done with these three movies to make them appeal to a wider audience than the previous stuff without destroying what made Trek what it is, and they've sailed pretty close to the wind with some of the creative choices they've made as it is.

The only thing can think of is if for Beyond they'd done a full blown Federation v Klingon war movie (and then the borg show up halfway forcing them to work together) with those epic DS9 style space battles. And had a couple of big stars supporting like Hanks as an Admiral type and Arnie as a Klingon warlord to appeal more internationally. So like the previous 2 less Trek more Wars, only more so