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To Mildly Go Hither And Yawn. ;)

Doc Mugatu

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
One thing that turns me off regarding the "conventional wisdom" of how today's entertainment conglomerates treat their franchise lay in their constant re-exploitation of what has come before rather then any bold mining of it's potential. In this, I believe, Paramount pioneered this shortcoming in how it has historically mishandled the Star Trek franchise in the modern era (primarily through overexploitation and secondarily through a sad redefinition of what the "vision" of the franchise can or should be).

I was (and am) hoping CBS's Discovery line will disrupt that paradigm of recent history. Season 1 of Discovery is certainly debatable on many levels. Not the least of which is that eternal question of "what is Star Trek?" That is not to say it can't or shouldn't be open for redefinition as time goes by, but whether it is progressive or regressive. By my sensibilities, it has been more regressive by far. It's handling of the metaphysical/spiritual aspect of existence as but one example. Paramount's turning the cinematic branch into a droning single note action franchise as another example.

Now the big gimmick for season 2 (or phase 2 or whatever they're calling it) is to bring back the characters of Spock and Picard. I am always leery of "gimmicks" as often they are unnecessary and too often seen as a suitable substitute for quality. As a general rule TPTB only go backwards because they are too afraid to go forward (and make no mistake "revisiting" Spock and Picard at this point is regressive - not to mention "ironic").

Having said all that … I will now illustrate the irrational and sometimes contradictory appearance of human nature.

In my current re-examination of Deep Space 9 I have been really enjoying the Nog-Jake Sisko dynamic and feel they would be a much more artistically valid and bold set of protagonists for a future series (limited or otherwise). The stories of Spock and Picard have already been largely told and their potential tapped (going back to them at this stage is more "stunt" than substance). It is in secondary characters such as Nog and Sisko, whose potentials were barely touched upon and yet would give us a real organic (non-GMO) tie to the past. We could experience a friendship forged in the fire of adventure that would truly rival that of Kirk-Spock-McCoy because the span of time would be real and not just some narrative construct therefore the gravitas sincere.

So please, no more Picard or Spock or even Kirk as there are only downsides. I say that in part because (I know this will sound offensive too many) one of the reasons things went awry with the TNG movies was that certain actors had too much voice in the script. Those actors were Spiner and Stewart. A constant "selling" point on this new Picard adventure is that Patrick Stewart's fingerprints are going to be all over it. Based on those previous experiences I don't see how that bodes well. It doesn't. The only actor who ever added value to the franchise outside of their acting was Leonard Nimoy and he has passed on.

Anyway, as Stan Lee would say, "EXCEDRIN!"
:beer:
 
Star Trek for the longest time wasn't afraid. The original series by virtue of being the first broke the ice. Next Generation made Trek its own. Deep Space Nine didn't even need to move! Voyager left Starfleet and the Federation in its dust and took on a new quadrant. Even Enterprise went back far enough to be its own thing. Obviously the movies played on nostalgia and travelled ground and now we have Discovery. Once we get past and possibly enjoy checking in with Spock and Pike be brave of her to make her own mark, no props.
 
Now the big gimmick for season 2 (or phase 2 or whatever they're calling it) is to bring back the characters of Spock and Picard. I am always leery of "gimmicks" as often they are unnecessary and too often seen as a suitable substitute for quality.

Picard's not in Discovery. He'll be in a new series of his own. Pike would've been better to point out if you want to stay DSC-specific.

As a general rule TPTB only go backwards because they are too afraid to go forward (and make no mistake "revisiting" Spock and Picard at this point is regressive - not to mention "ironic").

Not "only". There are other characters in Discovery as well who are indigenous to the series. Georgiou, Burnham, Saru, Tilly, Stamets, Culber, L'Rell, and Tyler.

Also, in the Picard Series, Picard's the only character that we know of who'll be returning. Most likely, he'll be interacting with a different set of characters than in TNG.

In my current re-examination of Deep Space 9 I have been really enjoying the Nog-Jake Sisko dynamic and feel they would be a much more artistically valid and bold set of protagonists for a future series (limited or otherwise). [...] We could experience a friendship forged in the fire of adventure that would truly rival that of Kirk-Spock-McCoy because the span of time would be real and not just some narrative construct therefore the gravitas sincere.

Nog is a Starfleet Officer and Jake is a civilian, a writer. Their lives took them in different paths. It would be like pairing me up with one of my friends who's career-military; one of whom just so happens to be in the Navy. It wouldn't make any sense.
 
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Picard's not in Discovery. He'll be in a new series of his own. Pike would've been better to point out if you want to stay DSC-specific.

I was referencing this next year of announced offerings from CBS. Whatever title you want to settle to reference this new collective body of shows is fine with me.

Not "only". There are other characters in Discovery as well who are indigenous to the series. Georgiou, Burnham, Saru, Tilly, Stamets, Culber, L'Rell, and Tyler.

That's good, no reason to go backwards then, right? Onward and upward.

Also, in the Picard Series, Picard's the only character that we know of who'll be returning. Most likely, he'll be interacting with a different set of characters than in TNG.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. Again, More often than not, past performance has been a pretty good predictor of future performance. I'd be mildly surprised if they didn't include a stunt reunion of some sort. Now there are even these articles appearing regarding Michael Dorn being included (or not). I simply doubt they'll be able to resist the temptation.

Nog is a Starfleet Officer and Jake is a civilian, a writer. Their lives took them in different paths. It would be like pairing me up with one of my friends who's career-military; one of whom just so happens to be in the Navy. It wouldn't make any sense.

Really? If they can't find a writer who could create a credible story regarding a writer embedded with an individual in Starfleet then they would need to expand their search to the living. A writer would have to be dead not to be able to work with that.

Also the last we saw of Nog and Jake Sisko was in the final episodes of DS9 nearly 20 years ago. Whose to say Nog is still in Strfleet? Perhaps he is an ambassador or a highly skilled privateer or yes, a starship commander. Nog could be quite the adventurer … maybe even the Starlord of theStarTrek universe. A writer could easily be paired with him because, well, he would be a writer.

Again, a writer would have to be pretty gosh-darn awful not to be able to make hay out of that.
 
Stories about Batman and Superman have been told for 70 years virtually nonstop, and rather successfully. I'm not sure I agree that stories about Spock and Picard can't be the same.

Well, since you brought it up, I'm not a fan of anything going non-stop forever. It is time, death, that gives things context and value. For me, in terms of comic books, it's the bronze age (1970-1985). I could try and encompass it all but then you get to the point of diminishing returns. All those reboots are insane. Officially there were no hard reboots until the early 1980's. Since then they done what 3 or 4 or 5? Prior to that were soft reboots and near zero continuity. There's a creative entropy that overtakes everything. You go too long you lose quality overall. You might get some high points but then you'll certainly get low points. I'm just not glutenous that way. I prefer quality over quantity. I also believe "absence makes the heart grow fonder" (or "how can I miss you if you never leave?").
 
If you want to look at it like that, we don't need Jake and Nog either. :p

If you review what I said then you'll find your response is completely inline with my position.

They shouldn't go backwards. I am open to compromise though in that if it is unavoidable I advocate going with secondary characters rather then main characters who have been done to death. So :nyah: right back atcha! :lol:
 
I don't object to seeing Spock or Picard again, as long as they're doing something different with them. If they're just covering the same ground with them, then that's different. Then I'm with you.

I'm interested in the Picard Series specifically because it's not going to be the eighth season of TNG. I'm interested in what they do with Spock because they're showing how the character transitions from who he was in "The Cage" to who he was in TOS.

But Spock isn't the main thing I'm interested in next season. Not by a long shot. (Sorry Spock!) Other than Emperor Georgiou, I'm most interested in Burnham and Pike's interactions.

I also want to see what they do with Number One. They didn't get to bring out that character's potential at all in "The Cage": a human who thinks more like a computer; and now they can.

I'm not too sure about Culber. It all depends on how it's executed. More than anything else, how they handle that subplot will have to be done carefully.
 
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They're never going to abandon the original Star Trek as a setting and characters; the studio will come back to it again and again for as long as they make this thing.
 
Jake and Nog were fun together, but I'm not sure the world is exactly clamoring for their future adventures. Marquee names like Picard or Spock they are not.

Then again, Commissioner Gordon got his own TV show and apparently there's an Alfred series in the works, so what do I know.? :)
 
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I'd love to see a show centered around Sarek.
Say from the time period before the birth of Sybok up to DISCOVERY.
I'll bet diamonds to doughnuts that he wasn't exactly his fathers darling either.
I would imagine deep down, Sarek didn't care for having his wife picked out for him and it may be a small part of the reason why he fell in love with Amanda.
Any Vulcan who decides to marry an Earth Female, seems likely to have been the "Black Sehlat" of the family.

His Vulcan kin probably didn't appreciate his fascination with Earth in general anyway, as we apparently have been a thorn in Vulcan's side since before Captain Archer's time.

Spock is probably very much the way he is due to seeing his father's interactions (and/or lack thereof) with 'The Family' as a child.
The apple doesn't fall very far from the tree.
:biggrin:
 
The fact of the matter is that not all characters are equal, in popularity, star power, nostalgia appeal, or whatever. Granted, sometimes a supporting character can catch fire and become a lead in their own right. (Hi, Xena! Hi, Harley Quinn! Hi, Frasier!) But more often than not, supporting characters aren't necessarily meant for the center of the spotlight. (Hi, Inspector Lestrade. Hi, Felix Leiter. Hi, AfterMASH.)

Same applies to STAR TREK.
 
Stories about Batman and Superman have been told for 70 years virtually nonstop, and rather successfully. I'm not sure I agree that stories about Spock and Picard can't be the same.

Are Christopher Reeves, Tom Welling and Dean Cain all portraying Kal El from the same continuity? I don’t think so. But we are supposed to believe Pecks Spock and Nimoys Spock are the exact same character from the same continuity. CBS should hurry up and come clean....
 
Are Christopher Reeves, Tom Welling and Dean Cain all portraying Kal El from the same continuity? I don’t think so. But we are supposed to believe Pecks Spock and Nimoys Spock are the exact same character from the same continuity. CBS should hurry up and come clean....
What about Saavik being played by Kristie Alley and Robin Curtis? Obviously a different continuity there too.
 
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