Must There Be A Section 31?

[somebuddyX]

I don't think it was just the non-canon novels, but DC Fontana herself who later retconned the Enterprise Incident to be a S31 operation in the Year Four comics she wrote (which while non-canon themselves, because they had the tv writer involved, at least indicate where she ultimately decided these orders in the episode came from even though obviously the concept of Section 31 didn't exist back when she worked on the tv show way back in the 1960s).

On the topic of this episode, I do remember complaints on how absurd it was for Scotty to easily install a Romulan cloaking device onto the Enterprise which was never designed to be equipped with cloaks. And now we have Picard Season 3, which has the Enterprise-G/Titan-A suddenly installing a century old Klingon cloak with no problem...

I just go with the ships have built in technology to make use of cloaks, they're just not allowed to. The Enterprise-D also just plugged in a cloak in "The Pegasus." The Defiant plugged in a cloak in "The Search" possibly. Maybe they turn the shields into a cloaking field and that's why you can't use both (except when you can).

 

[fireproof78]

I just go with the ships have built in technology to make use of cloaks, they're just not allowed to. The Enterprise-D also just plugged in a cloak in "The Pegasus." The Defiant plugged in a cloak in "The Search" possibly. Maybe they turn the shields into a cloaking field and that's why you can't use both (except when you can).

You can when you reverse the polarity.

 

[Quantum21]

A clandestine branch of Starfleet, authorized to undertake extreme measures. With no regards for Federation law and presumably no accountability?

Or, an excuse to include a harder edge Starfleet organization. That has all the best toys, breaks all the rules, living life in the fast lane on a roller coaster ride without guardrails?


The recent Section 31 movie got me thinking. With how the DSC, S31 and STID all depict Section 31 as the super spy/black ops branch of Starfleet. Complete with secret star bases (DSC), a fleet of ships (DSC), R&D facilities on Earth (STID), Uber ships that outclass the hero’s (DSC and STID), banned and confiscated technology.

Outside of the “badass”, anti-hero vibe Paramount+ and Kelvin-Trek apply to Section 31.
Is such an organization (to the degree we see them in the aforementioned series) even necessary?

Dare to compare how Starfleet provisioned out missions that you would think would be more suited to Section 31.

TOS: The Enterprise Incident - Where Kirk and Spock sneak aboard a Romulan vessel to steal a cloaking device.

TWOK/TSFS - USS Reliant and later USS Enterprise being in charge of the Genesis project. And how a weapon like that could be perverted to killing entire planets. Data classified at the Captain and above ranks of Starfleet.

TNG:
Face of the Enemy - Troi (reluctantly) and the Enterprise involved in a mission by Starfleet and Ambassador Spock to help Romulan ex-patriots flee the planet.

Chain of Command - Picard, Worf and Dr. Crusher given orders from Starfleet to undergo training for a secret mission in Cardassian space.

VOY:
The Omega Directive - Classified to the Captain’s rank and above. Janeway says that all Captains are trained on how to deal with Omega particles and neutralize them.

I’m drawing a blank on DS9 examples, but I’m sure there are some.These are just off the top of my head.

I ask the question, does a Section 31 need to exist?

StarFleet brass has no trouble enlisting their captains to undertake missions outside the scope of diplomat and explorers all the time. The only time Section 31’s methods were “necessary” (if you can call it that) is when they made Odo patient zero for the morphogenic virus.

With the scheme Sisko pulled on the Romulan’s in the episode “In The Pale Moonlight”. I’m not to bothered by Sloan’s actions in “Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges”. Where they frame a Romulan ally as a traitor to her own species to face trial and execution. Hell, look at how involved Kirk/Spock, Picard/Worf, Sisko/Worf were involved with the internal politics and stability of the Klingon empire. I just don’t see how this secret squirrel branch of Starfleet is secretly “holding it all together”.

I believe it was not part of Starfleet but did work with Starfleet.

Is it inevitable? I know this: if others in the galaxy are doing it, the UFP has to. It's like having all the chess pieces everyone else has but handicapping yourself without 1 piece.

 

[Jedi Marso]

No. To me, Section 31 is sort of the antithesis of what Starfleet and the Federation are supposed to be all about. I could even imagine member worlds like Vulcan contemplating seceding from the Federation after learning of its existence, citing is seditious and dishonest nature.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah!

Leave the sedition and coup behavior to Starfleet!

 

[Farscape One]

I think the Vulcans would be the first members of the Federation to defend Section 31's existence, particularly considering their own history of subterfuge. (Like what happened at P'Jem.)

 

[DonIago]

I don't know about the Vulcans, but I could see other member races taking issue with S31 if it turned out that they'd infiltrated allies and enemies alike...which if you assume they were created pre-Federation with the intention of defending Earth against all possible threats, seems likely.

Though I guess the question becomes what level of spying on one's erstwhile allies is considered tolerable, and at what point it becomes something that friendly governments can no longer turn a blind eye to.

 

[fireproof78]

Vulcans were spying on Andorians and then became allies. Might be considered the price of doing business since it occured from.zm early onset.

And given the Federation's use of duck blinds and spies like Riker on pre warp civilizations spying seems like their MO

 

[DonIago]

"Spying" can encompass a broad range of activities though. Passively gathering intelligence is one thing, sabotaging science initiatives might be a different matter.

 

[mithril]

I think the Vulcans would be the first members of the Federation to defend Section 31's existence, particularly considering their own history of subterfuge. (Like what happened at P'Jem.)

they did that under the less logical and far more militarist Vulcan High Command. the same high command that the Vulcan people overthru after finding the Kirshara, precisely because of stuff like perverting p'jem into an espionage base and antagonizing the andorians into multiple wars.
after ENT the vulcans would likely be the first to state that an organization like section 31 is illogical and counterproductive to the goals, ideals, and ethics of the federation.

it is also worth noting that the vulcans never had any such organization, nor did the andorians or tellarites. they did their underhanded espionage and sabotage using organizations that were answerable to the government and were subject to checks and balances. section 31 is a untethered organization. unknown to the government and military except for a handful of people, subject to no one, answerable to no one, acting under the orders of no one in the government while pursuing goals of their own divining. in the 23rd century they were under the umbrella of starfleet intelligence, but even then they were operating much the way they would in the 24th century.. as a rogue operation that hid itself from everyone, even within starfleet intelligence. and in all three centuries we see them, 22nd, 23rd, and 24th, they were attempting to manipulate their own government to their own ends.

this is part of the reason i think the film failed.. Section 31 isn't SHIELD. it's HYDRA.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

It's definitely the reason I was against the whole idea from the start. But then it managed to be bad on every other level* too, so there's plenty for blame for its failure.


*Okay the visual effects were decent. And the props.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

this is part of the reason i think the film failed.. Section 31 isn't SHIELD. it's HYDRA.

That's a ridiculous assertion on it's face, because HYDRA seeks to control the world for their own benifit. S31 despite their deployable methods and questionable validity is fundamentally an organisation designed to protect the Federation for the benefit of the Federation.

A better comparison would be SHIELD during the back-end of s1 and early S2 of Agents of SHIELD*, and the IMF border on this at various points in their movie franchise (the only clear oversight is in their objectives, not their methods, and we know that Starfleet Command approves of S31 as far as the former goes).

* and frankly the differences between SHIELD and S31 on a good day aren't as clear as they might be, particularly under Fury, who basically ignores directives if they conflict with what he wants to do (that he's often right is beside the point).

 

[UssGlenn]

I just go with the ships have built in technology to make use of cloaks, they're just not allowed to. The Enterprise-D also just plugged in a cloak in "The Pegasus." The Defiant plugged in a cloak in "The Search" possibly. Maybe they turn the shields into a cloaking field and that's why you can't use both (except when you can).

Yes, I think you are right on the money here. The tricky part of the cloaking device is generating the exotic energy needed. Once you have that it's easy to send it out the emitters designed for shield energy. The issue with running cloak and shields at the same time is that it's much harder to hide a ship with shields up, it's like a beacon. So it's a massive power requirement increase to make it work, and you'd need 2 sets of emitters. Are their any examples of a ship running both at the same time?

 

[FredH]

I think a distinction needs to be made — and lately Trek seems to be forgetting to do so — between a spying and clandestine-operations apparatus, which an active, major power needs to have and should have (despite David Gerrold’s dim view of it in The World of Star Trek, back in the day); and what’s essentially a warcrimes department/Gestapo, which it of course should not. It used to seem clear that Starfleet Intelligence was the first, and beneficial, while Section 31 was the second, and very much not. But lately that seems to have been blurred, such that Section 31 is equated with the Federation’s CIA, full stop, or at least its Directorate of Operations. I think that’s a mistake.

 

[fireproof78]

One of the things I appreciated about Deep Space Nine and it's use of Section 31 was how the lines in the time of war start to blur. That the more dire the threat the more blurry those lines become. Into Darkness notes this as well, the temptation to hit back, tactic for tactic, blow for blow, blood for blood. Admiral Ross states that he dislikes Section 31 but he dislikes the casualty reports even more.

So, we see in times of uncertainty that Starfleet blurs the lines. In times of peace or from afar we can sit back and judge them, declare them unnecessary and be oh so certain in our morality and that is how the world should be. Yes, we need the idealism.

But, it isn't always so clear and Trek presents that question. I think it's important to ask what do we do in the face of existential threats of you think Section 31 is a bridge too far?

 

[ThetaSigma]

I think a distinction needs to be made — and lately Trek seems to be forgetting to do so — between a spying and clandestine-operations apparatus, which an active, major power needs to have and should have (despite David Gerrold’s dim view of it in The World of Star Trek, back in the day); and what’s essentially a warcrimes department/Gestapo, which it of course should not. It used to seem clear that Starfleet Intelligence was the first, and beneficial, while Section 31 was the second, and very much not. But lately that seems to have been blurred, such that Section 31 is equated with the Federation’s CIA, full stop, or at least its Directorate of Operations. I think that’s a mistake.

Oh no, no major power has ever needed a criminal outfit like the CIA!

The disgusting criminal outfit was not needed and should never have been formed, it’s been a cancer on democracy across the world and in the US. It knowingly used Nazi propaganda masquerading as intelligence to justify ridiculous military budgets, waged terrorist wars against countries, financed and lead death squads and tortures, carried out illegal experiments on American citizens and literally set out to snipe out a sect of Catholicism. The CIA is in many ways responsible for the reestablishmemt of the international drugs trade, created Gladio and directed false flag terror attacks. Seriously need I go on, it’s no coincidence the largest CIA operation led directly to the largest attack on US territory in 9/11.

The CiA should be abolished and those involved with any illegal activity should be prosecuted.

Not only is it not necessary today it was never necessary!

 

[ThetaSigma]

That's a ridiculous assertion on it's face, because HYDRA seeks to control the world for their own benifit. S31 despite their deployable methods and questionable validity is fundamentally an organisation designed to protect the Federation for the benefit of the Federation.

A better comparison would be SHIELD during the back-end of s1 and early S2 of Agents of SHIELD*, and the IMF border on this at various points in their movie franchise (the only clear oversight is in their objectives, not their methods, and we know that Starfleet Command approves of S31 as far as the former goes).

* and frankly the differences between SHIELD and S31 on a good day aren't as clear as they might be, particularly under Fury, who basically ignores directives if they conflict with what he wants to do (that he's often right is beside the point).

A better comparison would be the Safari Club, a group of effectively rogue operatives from the CIA and other western agencies who went off the books for their criminal and illegal activities in their narrow and wrong conception of the US’ interests often capitalist interests.

 

[fireproof78]

Oh no, no major power has ever needed a criminal outfit like the CIA!

The disgusting criminal outfit was not needed and should never have been formed, it’s been a cancer on democracy across the world and in the US. It knowingly used Nazi propaganda masquerading as intelligence to justify ridiculous military budgets, waged terrorist wars against countries, financed and lead death squads and tortures, carried out illegal experiments on American citizens and literally set out to snipe out a sect of Catholicism. The CIA is in many ways responsible for the reestablishmemt of the international drugs trade, created Gladio and directed false flag terror attacks. Seriously need I go on, it’s no coincidence the largest CIA operation led directly to the largest attack on US territory in 9/11.

The CiA should be abolished and those involved with any illegal activity should be prosecuted.

Not only is it not necessary today it was never necessary!

Sir, this is a Wendy's