Sick Bays & Science Labs

[James Wright]

How many science labs and Sick Bays did the E-D have compared with TOS E?
What I mean by the fir part of this question is hospital beds!
How would either ship compare to a star base in their respective era's?
Just thought I'd ask and see if anybody knew.
Thanks

JDW

 

[kent]

I don't think there is a positive on screen answer to that question, but undoubtedly a Sovereign class would have less scientific bays and examination rooms than a Galaxy would. Arguably, though, it could have the same amount of space for medical purposes as does a Galaxy. The reason being for that is medical applications are generally something that needs to remain fully outfitted on deep space vessels. Scientific, not so much. Just pile enough in the ship that fits to do it's job as an exploration vessel. That said though, the sensors on a Sovereign are also undoubtedly more advanced, lessening the need for a huge number of scientific bays OR heightening the need for more scientific bays. Either way, we don't really know.

 

[kent]

OH my god. I just realized I totally answered the question wrong. Sorry I just woke up, saw the "E" and blanked on the "TOS". ARGH.

Okay that makes answering this easier. The TOS enterprise was probably a little smaller than voyager internally. That said the Enterprise-D would have more than double the capacity for scientific and medical applications, based on the advance of technology and size alone. The Galaxy class is more than double the size of a Constitution and Intrepid (Though the Intrepid class probably has similar medical suites.). It's also worth noting that the Galaxy class has the ability to carry up to around 300 extra dedicated personell, comfortably, with its extra facilities. That pushes it's compliment to around 1300. An extra 300 personell on a Constitution class, circa 2267, would push the crew compliment up to 700, or the amount of people that would serve on a Sovereign class ship (between 700 and 900 generally assumed). I doubt that the Enterprise 1701 would be able to deal with that many people comfortably.

Hope that helps.

 

[JNG]

A Galaxy-class starship like Enterprise-D is supposed to be able to evacuate up to fifteen thousand persons, though that's not implying some level of medical care available for them. With her several large shuttlebays, mess halls and other facilities (heck, holodecks would work) that could easily be converted to medical care areas in a pinch, I would wager she could provide a couple of thousand flying hospital beds for emergencies, especially with a bit of time to prepare.

It's interesting to note that the TNG TM claims 40% of the crew has training to serve secondary medical functions, which is a lot and would really help in disaster relief and so forth.

The TOS Enterprise has about 1/25 the volume of the Enterprise-D, and I would guess she could provide a maximum of maybe a hundred and fifty emergency beds or something like that, again with time to prepare. She doesn't have nearly as much space available per crewman she normally carries, and I think a lot of the other spaces are serving vital functions and are not the kind of place you can just start laying sick people everywhere.

As for comparison to starbase, I am not sure if you mean in general or just in the matter of hospital beds.

For the latter, I think all we can say is that a starbase, regardless of era, is probably better equipped to handle emergencies requiring care for many ill or injured than anywhere except a major city on a Federation member planet.

As a general question, I think the Galaxy class is the closest thing they can build to a flying starbase in its era, given that it is supposed to operate on its own, possibly for long periods of time, and to be able to carry out all Federation policy options while doing so. The TOS Enterprise was, in my personal opinion at least, probably the Starfleet top of the line in her day, but I think the gap between a major facility and a mobile one was wider then and might narrow somewhat with the continuing technological progress and embiggening of certain ships

 

[James Wright]

It's just something I got to thinking about after watching the last half of a TNG episode, it got me to wondering how many science labs & hospital beds TOS Enterprise had in comparaision to TNG Enterprise! I just threw the star bases in as an afterthought.
Didn't TOS Enterprise have something like 12 0r 14 science labs aboard?

James

 

[nx1701g]

According to Memory Alpha:

Constitution Class Enterprise: 14 Science Labs; Four Sickbay Wards
Galaxy Class Enterprise: 16 Science Labs (General Purpose), Several Type Specific Science Labs, Mission Specific Science Labs on Deck Eight (as needed); At least Three Sickbay Wards (According to Yesterday's Enterprise equivalent to a Starbase).

 

[James Wright]

Thanks nx-1701g, I knew there was a site I've been meaningto put on my favorites list!
Do you think TOS Enterprise also equaled a starbase in the numberof sickbay wards?

James

 

[nx1701g]

Thanks nx-1701g, I knew there was a site I've been meaningto put on my favorites list!
Do you think TOS Enterprise also equaled a starbase in the numberof sickbay wards?

James

^ I'm not entirely sure. We know that the medical facilities of the E-D were superior to those of a Starbase according to the dialogue (the line was something like: "I've never seen a sickbay like this, not even on a Starbase), but I don't know for sure about the TOS Enterprise. It's possible that it was for the time period.

 

[Plecostomus]

Keep in mind she was displaced in time, so her comment would reflect the fact she was comparing what she had seen in her time to what she was seeing around her now.

 

[nx1701g]

^ Which I included in my post at the end.

 

[Whorfin]

According to Memory Alpha:

Constitution Class Enterprise: 14 Science Labs; Four Sickbay Wards
Galaxy Class Enterprise: 16 Science Labs (General Purpose), Several Type Specific Science Labs, Mission Specific Science Labs on Deck Eight (as needed); At least Three Sickbay Wards (According to Yesterday's Enterprise equivalent to a Starbase).

Thanks for the info. Now for the editorial (not directed at you).

16+several? Its the size of a small moon??? And in another thread someone was arguing that (FJ's) 1701 (with 14 labs) was inadequate for exploration!

Is this what the TNG blueprints show (mine are in storage)? Its got over 1000 people, surely they have more than a few labs more than old 1701?

 

[Albertese]

Well let's not forget that a thick percentage of the E-D's population was useless civilians. That 1,000 number counts every last living soul aboard. I suppose that the actual Starfleet crew totaled less than 800. Besides, a lot more area seems to be devoted to recreational facilities than on the older ships (or even contemporary ships that don't extend the invite to the crewman's kids). Combine this with the fact that almost every computer console on the ship was user configurable rather than hardwired buttons and switches. Therefore, one lab area could be used to engage in a variety of different tasks. Now, I'm sure specialized equipment is needed for certain studies, but there's plenty of tasks that could be handled with a minimum of uniquely required hardware. I think that the labs mentioned above would be more than up to muster for the missions of the Enterprise.

--Alex

 

[nx1701g]

^ The Enterprise did have civilian specialists aboard. Keiko for example.

 

[CuttingEdge100]

I thought the TOS-E had 12 labs?

Did it ever say what sciences were covered in those particular labs?

 

[Timo]

There's no onscreen mention of how many labs there were aboard the E-D, or how big those were. One might argue that there are about a dozen scientific disciplines that warrant a laboratory on a starship, but that the labs on the TOS ship had four people working in each, while the labs on the TNG ship had 400 employees each.

The concept of 14 laboratories on Kirk's ship is canonical, OTOH - Kirk exclaims that the ship has that many "science labs" aboard when he gets frustrated at their lack of progress in "Operation: Annihilate!". Possibly there are other labs that aren't "science", too: say, a futuristic photo lab of some sort, a medical lab, or a lab as part of the machine shops might fall outside the "science" definition in Kirk's parlance.

And while the ship obviously was short on space at times (having to shuffle personnel when accommodating diplomatic entourages, for example), she always seemed to harbor some idle researchers who only got to display their expertise once per year, if then. One would assume that the square meters of the labs could be put to some other use in emergencies without hindering the usual operations, then.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Timo,

14-laboratories it is. Where did you get the figure about only four people working in each lab?

Can you think of some disciplines the labs could fall under (has any labs been seen in the TV show, I do remember one where they blinded Spock with a brilliant light)

Obviously there's Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Astronomy, and Geology for starters. Of course there are overlaps (i.e. there are disciplines of chemistry that pertain to biology, and geology, etc). I wouldn't be surprised if there was an electronics/robotics lab...


CuttingEdge100

 

[Whorfin]

Franz Joseph in the TOS 1701 "Book of General Plans" gives a roster of 80 Science staff (incl. 2 Yeomen, one of which might be assigned to Medical), 56 Medical (under the Science department, which makes sense for planetary survey work), leaving Command with 55 personal, and Engineering with 239. So, from FJ's perspective true science seems the second most important role of the ship in terms of manpower, second only to keeping it running.

 

[Albertese]

Timo,

14-laboratories it is. Where did you get the figure about only four people working in each lab?


...

Pretty sure he just made it up to make a point.

As for FJ's crew allocations, I posit that the operational crew of the Enterprise wasn't much over 200, counting engineering, security, command, medical, and basic sciences. This would be a crew such as Pike commanded of the Enterprise in WNMHGB. The rest of the crew would be an enlarged medical and security staff as well and many many specialists and scientists who don't get much screen time. These are the A&A officers, the historians, the exotic geology majors and whatnot that would not be required for the basic cruiser and short range exploration missions that the Enterprise used to do, and are required for the possibly unusual discoveries during the course of a 5 year mission of exploration that the Enterprise embarked on after being refit to Starship status.

Some might be on board with this idea too, but I know a lot of people disagree, saying that the Enterprise was always a starship. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

--Alex

 

[Praetor]

I wouldn't argue with your point, Albertese, as I think it makes sense to explain that line of Pike's (unless the Rigel disaster was really bad), but I have always tended to think the Enterprise was Starship-class from the day she was launched.

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Whorfin,

According to your statement if there were 80 science personnel onboard the Enterprise you'd have 5 to 6 people per lab.


Albertese,

That isn't all that odd an idea to have an operational crew of 203 with the remaining 227 to be science personnel. Keep in mind though the operational crew would include the chief science officer (as he's one of the more senior officers on the ship) and at least a small number of science personnel, let's say 20 people (so 223 or 224 people, depending on if the Chief Science Officer counted as part of the operational crew).

Regardless, I don't think you'd want to have more than a bare bones crew (other than the science personnel). It's good to have a lot of engineering crews as they are important when it comes to damage control functions.

When it comes to the Starship issue. I think it would be best to consider the Constition-Class vessels as starships from day one. Truthfully speaking I'm not sure how good an idea it would be to have it being the first class of ship to be considered a Star Ship. I mean modern day ships that are Cruisers or above are called Warships. Well exploratory cruisiers and above could be called Starships, no?


CuttingEdge100