Xindi connection in TAS?

[FederationHistorian]

In the TAS episode “The Time Trap” there is an insectoid sitting on the Elysian Ruling Council. Even though the insectoid in this episode visually looks different from an Insectoid Xindi, is the insectoid in “The Time Trap” meant to be a Xindi? Or an offshoot of them i.e. Xendi, as in Xendi Starbase 9 from TNG.

It might be a reach, or a massive retcon, but I’m just wondering what you all think.

 

[Albertese]

Massive retcon. The Xendi had not been conceived of in 1973 or so when TAS was being made. But I suppose it could be a fun fan theory if that's you thing.

--Alex

 

[NCC-73515]

It looks similar to a Vendorian, actually

 

[Timo]

You must be referring to "The Slaver Weapon", which features the Feline Xindi. You know, the species that caused the extinction of the Avian Xindi and as the result was banished forever. Although it keeps on returning on occasion, with bloodied ears and whatnot.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Albertese]

@Timo are you suggesting the Kzinti should be retro-canonized to be a Xindi race?

--Alex

 

[publiusr]

Maybe a fallout from the Uplift

 

[johnnybear]

ENT is an alternate timeline!
JB

 

[Dukhat]

@Timo are you suggesting the Kzinti should be retro-canonized to be a Xindi race?

--Alex

No, I think he’s confused about what the OP was asking about. He saw an insectoid race in ‘The Time Trap’ and is speculating that it was a member of the Xindi insectoids. It’s obviously not, though.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Couple of issues between the appearances of the Xindi-Insectoid and the Elysian-Insectoid:
* The Xindi has two prominent antennae. The Elysian does not, appearing to have a smooth forehead.
* The Xindi has two arms and two legs. The Elysian appears to have four arms.
* All Xindi-Insectoids appear green, while the Elysian is brown. This isn't that big of a deal, since most humanoids have pigment differences, but there's no evidence in Enterprise of anything but Green Xindi-Insectoids.
* Xindi Eyes are large, bulbous, compound eyes (modeled after a common fly, I believe), while the Elysian appears to be just a large, yellow slit. This could be a product of animation, simplifying the eye structure. However, we see a compound eyes in an earlier episode (Beyond the Farthest Star) with a race of ancient insectoids.

The Elysian might be a Xindi-Insectoid, but if that were the case, it would have to be some unseen secondary insectoid species of the Xindi.

I'm 99% certain, though, that the Xendi and Xindi are one and the same, just a product of spelling reform after two centuries of working closely between the two races.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Given all the humanoid aliens in Star Trek, why is there a need to assume that two insectoid species are the same simply because they are insectoid? That's just another instance of "small universe syndrome" as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Odo]

Ooo, I like that idea @Tim Thomason, that the Xendi starbase refers to the Xindi.

 

[Timo]

No, I think he’s confused about what the OP was asking about. He saw an insectoid race in ‘The Time Trap’ and is speculating that it was a member of the Xindi insectoids. It’s obviously not, though.

Oh, I'm most definitely suggesting that yes, the Kzinti are a Xindi species (and just happen to pronounce the name funnily because, you know, mouth full of fangs) - and furthermore that yes, every random connection to the Xindi, such as the Xindi Starbase 9 in TNG, is a valid one if we want it to be.

Whether the insectoid in "Time Trap" is a Xindi species or not, I gather the number of upper limbs ought to be decisive. We have seen antenna-free Andorians and three-thumbed Tellarites, and can always plead minor mishaps or intriguing interbreeding there. But an extra set of limbs?

(The Case of the Feline Xindi rests mainly on the idea that the ratcats would have inconvenienced Earth two centuries before TAS. Taken literally, that puts them at the very moment Earth invented warp, and we don't see our ST:FC heroes agonize over how Earth will fare if Cochrane's contraption fails to deliver now that the enemy is at the gates. But even taken the way "two centuries" generally ought to, that is, "more than a hundred years ago", it refers to Archer's life and times. So, while we saw no cats of note there, we did see the Xindi "in general" attack and fail - which might be what reflects badly on every subspecies in the 2260s still.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tim Thomason]

Now that the Kzinti have been surprisingly referenced on Picard, and Lower Decks has been dropping TAS references left and right, and Strange New Worlds promises new TOS-era adventures, it's just a matter of time before Kzinti make their grand reappearance.

Tying them into the Xindi of Enterprise, while a fun exercise of the mind and a vague fit, will prove incorrect.

 

[Henoch]

In the TAS episode “The Time Trap” there is an insectoid sitting on the Elysian Ruling Council. Even though the insectoid in this episode visually looks different from an Insectoid Xindi, is the insectoid in “The Time Trap” meant to be a Xindi? Or an offshoot of them i.e. Xendi, as in Xendi Starbase 9 from TNG.

It might be a reach, or a massive retcon, but I’m just wondering what you all think.

We need pictures (and name tags):

It looks similar to a Vendorian, actually

Nope, unless he is shape changed...

 

[Dukhat]

Given all the humanoid aliens in Star Trek, why is there a need to assume that two insectoid species are the same simply because they are insectoid? That's just another instance of "small universe syndrome" as far as I'm concerned.

Now that the Kzinti have been surprisingly referenced on Picard, and Lower Decks has been dropping TAS references left and right, and Strange New Worlds promises new TOS-era adventures, it's just a matter of time before Kzinti make their grand reappearance.

Tying them into the Xindi of Enterprise, while a fun exercise of the mind and a vague fit, will prove incorrect.

Not to mention that the Xindi themselves stated that they only had six races (the bird-Xindi being extinct.)

 

[Albertese]

The alien in question (except for the arms) looks like the Kaferian from Worlds of the Federation by Shane (Lara) Johnson. Given how much TAS material is in that book, I expect that was the author's intent.

--Alex

 

[MAGolding]

Now that the Kzinti have been surprisingly referenced on Picard, and Lower Decks has been dropping TAS references left and right, and Strange New Worlds promises new TOS-era adventures, it's just a matter of time before Kzinti make their grand reappearance.

Tying them into the Xindi of Enterprise, while a fun exercise of the mind and a vague fit, will prove incorrect.

I do not know whether it is legally possible to depict Kzinti in new Star Trek productions.

On one hand, the Kzinti were created by Larry Niven for his "known space" series which is a totally different ficitonal setting than the Star Trek setting and the Kzinti are owned by Larry Niven.

On the other hand, Niven permitted Kzinti to appear in the TAS episode "The Slaver Weapon" and wrote the episode himself based on his story "The Soft Weapon", thus letting his Kzinti, or some sort of parallel universe version of them, become part of any fictional universe which includes the TAS episode "The Slaver Weapon.

So I suspect that lawyers will be consulted before any Kzinti appear in any new Star Trek productions.

 

[Shawnster]

I do not know whether it is legally possible to depict Kzinti in new Star Trek productions.

We discussed on this board how the Kzinti were planned to appear on ENT in season 5.

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/plans-for-season-5-kzinti-the-main-enemy.68378/

It was also discussed on Memory Alpha: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/User:Kobi/Kzinti#Star_Trek:_Enterprise

 

[NCC-73515]

We need pictures (and name tags):

Nope, unless he is shape changed...

same colors, similar parts.

 

[Timo]

Whatever be said of the Kzinti, the one sitting at the Council is just plain adorable!

Timo Saloniemi