Would remaking TOS episodes make you upset?

[BillJ]

Timeline has been changed multiple times by multiple series. Timeline still seems corrects itself. Strange New Worlds is just following what was previously established most recently. That World War 3/The Eugenics war was in the early 21st century, as established in TNG and further cemented in place by both First Contact and Enterprise.

I do wonder if we've seen such a huge change in the timeline as "Tomorrow, Tomorrow and Tomorrow" represents before?

It is clear that Khan simply can't be the same character here that we saw in "Space Seed". There's about 70- or 80-year difference in his birth between the two episodes. Tough to see how the timeline can play out the same with someone who is going to be a different person. That and a war that is happening about 70 years later than was originally intended.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I do wonder if we've seen such a huge change in the timeline as "Tomorrow, Tomorrow and Tomorrow" represents before?

It is clear that Khan simply can't be the same character here that we saw in "Space Seed". There's about 70- or 80-year difference in his birth between the two episodes. Tough to see how the timeline can play out the same with someone who is going to be a different person. That and a war that is happening about 70 years later than was originally intended.

Eh, its fiction. Khan shows up, recites all the same dialog except for a date or two. No real changes for the "timeline" .

 

[BillJ]

Eh, its fiction. Khan shows up, recites all the same dialog except for a date or two. No real changes for the "timeline" .

There really should be though. There is just no way that my mind can dismiss the differences. Doesn't make it good or bad, but clearly different.

 

[Nerys Myk]

There really should be though. There is just no way that my mind can dismiss the differences. Doesn't make it good or bad, but clearly different.

What would the difference actually be though? Khan still fights in the war. Loses. Runs off into space. Gets found by Kirk.

 

[BillJ]

What would the difference actually be though? Khan still fights in the war. Loses. Runs off into space. Gets found by Kirk.

If that is all one is looking for, then that's great. From my perspective, what they did made little sense for what is supposed to be the "Prime" timeline.

They're saying that Khan ends up being the same exact thing despite living a vastly different life. Heck, if I was born now versus 1971, I know I would be a radically different person. There would just be no other way around it.

It is like the Riker non-sense regarding clones from "Up the Long Ladder". Just because something shares your genetic traits doesn't mean it is you. We are more than just what was swimming around in Mommy and Daddy's underpants. This is what they are trying to boil it down to.

When I look at what they did, it just reeks of change for the sake of change. Which kinda flies in the face of all this being "Prime" to make fans happy.

Like all things in life, mileage will vary, opinions will differ.

 

[HotRod]

Eh, its fiction. Khan shows up, recites all the same dialog except for a date or two. No real changes for the "timeline" .

Yeah, pretty much.

The whole 1996 thing has been completely ignored since Wrath of Khan. We've had multiple time travel episodes that went back to that era of apparent Global tyranny and upheaval and saw no signs of Genetic Supermen running around.

What we did see consistently when they traveled back to the 80s and 90s was very much "our timeline."

The Voyage Home was just 1980s San Francisco.

Future's End was 90s Los Angeles.

Carpenter Street was just early 2000s Detroit.* Complete with Conan O'Brien!

No Eugenics War. No World War 3. No signs of Global tyranny.




*Filmed in Los Angeles.

 

[BillJ]

Future's End was 90s Los Angeles.

Complete with a DY-100 in the background.

If I walked around downtown Cincinnati, I largely wouldn't be able to tell you where the global hotspots were. I largely wouldn't even be able to tell you that Trump is POTUS. Planet is a big place.

So I struggle with the "we didn't see it in the episode" so it couldn't have happened train of thought. Two very different and interesting ways to look at things that really will never solve the issue. It is a fun conversation though!

 

[Nerys Myk]

They're saying that Khan ends up being the same exact thing despite living a vastly different life. Heck, if I was born now versus 1971, I know I would be a radically different person. There would just be no other way around it.

How vastly different is Khan's life going to be? He's still born and raised as a superman in some lab complex. Then he and his buddies take over the world. We've no idea what his life was beyond that. Blank slate really.

 

[BillJ]

How vastly different is Khan's life going to be? He's still born and raised as a superman in some lab complex. Then he and his buddies take over the world. We've no idea what his life was beyond that. Blank slate really.

Eh, one of those things my brain won't let go of.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Eh, one of those things my brain won't let go of.

Don't over think it.

 

[BillJ]

Don't over think it.

Thing is, I'm not. The thoughts of it not being able to be the same person popped immediately into my head, it was the very first thing I thought of when I heard of it.

Sometimes, the brain is the boss.

 

[HotRod]

Complete with a DY-100 in the background.

If I walked around downtown Cincinnati, I largely wouldn't be able to tell you where the global hotspots were. I largely wouldn't even be able to tell you that Trump is POTUS. Planet is a big place.

So I struggle with the "we didn't see it in the episode" so it couldn't have happened train of thought. Two very different and interesting ways to look at things that really will never solve the issue. It is a fun conversation though!

Sure, you could walk around Cincinnati and not realize that something like the war in Ukraine was going on. But The Eugenics War was said to be World War 3, a war with a massive nuclear exchange and most major cities destroyed. You'd probably notice that, even in Ohio.

 

[BillJ]

Sure, you could walk around Cincinnati and not realize that something like the war in Ukraine was going on. But The Eugenics War was said to be World War 3, a war with a massive nuclear exchange and most major cities destroyed. You'd probably notice that, even in Ohio.

Maybe? I'm not convinced Earth's World War III was as big of an affair as many make it out to be. But, point taken.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Sure, you could walk around Cincinnati and not realize that something like the war in Ukraine was going on. But The Eugenics War was said to be World War 3, a war with a massive nuclear exchange and most major cities destroyed. You'd probably notice that, even in Ohio.

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[BillJ]

I'm just waiting for the episode where La'an's latent abilities finally surface and Pike, Kirk and Spock take her back to the 2050's and she can see what a monster her great grandpa was. She will give her life in the 2050's helping chase "Khan" off the planet.

It is why Kirk goes easy on Khan in "Space Seed". Duh!!!

 

[HotRod]

I'm just waiting for the episode where La'an's latent abilities finally surface and Pike, Kirk and Spock take her back to the 2050's and she can see what a monster her great grandpa was. She will give her life in the 2050's helping chase "Khan" off the planet.

It is why Kirk goes easy on Khan in "Space Seed". Duh!!!

I'd watch.

 

[fireproof78]

Sure, you could walk around Cincinnati and not realize that something like the war in Ukraine was going on. But The Eugenics War was said to be World War 3, a war with a massive nuclear exchange and most major cities destroyed. You'd probably notice that, even in Ohio.

I'd like to think that whole populations being bombed out would impact people but maybe they're just jaded.

"Supermen taking over East Asia? Yeah, well, I got places to be pal."

 

[Firebird]

Complete with Conan O'Brien!

Oh wow, I'd forgotten Conan got a shout-out on Enterprise and, by extension, a Memory Alpha page:

Conan O'Brien

Conan O'Brien was a late 20th/early 21st century comedian who had a television show which aired late at night in the early 2000s United States. In Detroit in October 2004, Loomis asked Lawrence Strode to come back to the blood bank to fill out some records, but Strode was apprehensive, citing...

memory-alpha.fandom.com

 

[HotRod]

Oh wow, I'd forgotten Conan got a shout-out on Enterprise and, by extension, a Memory Alpha page:

Conan O'Brien

Conan O'Brien was a late 20th/early 21st century comedian who had a television show which aired late at night in the early 2000s United States. In Detroit in October 2004, Loomis asked Lawrence Strode to come back to the blood bank to fill out some records, but Strode was apprehensive, citing...

memory-alpha.fandom.com

Conan is Canon!

 

[fireproof78]

Great, now we have a Conan Canon Conundrum!