TOS: Deviations

[CorporalCaptain]

Would Shatner have kept his TOS hair for longer or would the TJ curly from the movie era have taken over in the later seasons.

Only his hairdresser knows for sure.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Only his hairdresser knows for sure.

He's rocking some bad hair through most of the 70s. Seems to get curly by TMP.

 

[mb22]

Yes, I would've liked that.

In an alternate world, Jeff Hunter is signing autographs at conventions to this day.

How long would a Hunter-led TOS have lasted, and how popular would he be years later? And that's assuming he never gets injured during the filming of Cry Chicago which led to his death a few months later (or never makes the film in the first place). Hunter would be 98 is he were still alive today.

 

[mb22]

He's rocking some bad hair through most of the 70s. Seems to get curly by TMP.

A "TJ furry" and the side hairline.

Recently, a reader pointed to an interesting image (above - sourced here ) of Bill Shatner wearing a "TJ Curly" toupee in the 1980s. The...

shatnerstoupee.blogspot.com

 

[Ssosmcin]

Interesting. That resonated with me. Maybe that's true for me too, although I did like DS9.

Oh, that's not to say I don't enjoy many of the other series and films, but I'm not devoted to the franchise and must watch it simply because it's called "Star Trek." TOS, TAS and the first 6 movies, though.... that's what I always think of when someone asks "hey let's talk about Star Trek."

I think the "minor four" were falsely elevated to "essential" status by fandom through reruns and conventions. All were easily replaced over the run of TOS from time to time. (Guess that belongs over in "Unpopular Opinions)

Well, yes and no. They were recurring characters and replaced as needed; Sulu most often and we didn't get Chekov until the second year. But Scotty and Uhura were in 66 of the 79, so they were arguably more important than Sulu (52) and Chekov (36). Scotty at least had a few episodes built around him.

They conventions and fans made them "essential" but they still got there by the movies.

 

[Tallguy]

I think one of the most interesting "What if's" is if Shatner's V was a hit. From what I gather now, Nimoy was pretty well done and was only coming back because it was Bill's turn. He had turned his Voyage Home success into a directorial career that brought him accolades (and probably money) that he had never had as an actor.

So he came back for V out of loyalty and friendship. After V flopped he came back for VI with creative control (again) and to put a button on the whole thing.

If Star Trek had now had two massive successes in a row, under both stars of the show, what would have happened next? I mean, this is a huge What If because we're wondering what Shatner would have brought to a second outing when in reality he didn't really have a first in him. Maybe he was closer than we think. Maybe part of the "what if" is if certain roadblocks were taken away from Shatner's path?

When might they have thought of wrapping it up if it had not been forced upon them? One more movie? Two? What happens (and this is fantasy land, I know) if they are still making successful Star Trek as TNG nears its end?

VI has not aged at all well for me. Its heart is in the right place but it just feels unfinished. (To say nothing of the fact that the "They just want to get us into a WAR!" trope has gotten very very very old for me.)

But what I will always cherish VI for is that it gave us an ending. And such an ending! "Boldly going where no man... No ONE has gone before" will always bring a tear to my eye.

TMP was a wow finish. It could certainly have ended there. TVH was a wow finish. That would have been a triumphant ending critically AND financially. But all of them ended with the crew in their chairs, boldly going on next week's adventure. Honestly, I can watch All Our Yesterdays for that.

VI gave us the last bows and the curtain call.

 

[JLA]

How long would a Hunter-led TOS have lasted, and how popular would he be years later? And that's assuming he never gets injured during the filming of Cry Chicago which led to his death a few months later (or never makes the film in the first place). Hunter would be 98 is he were still alive today.

I would have thought he'd have avoided the injury during that filming by being too busy with Star Trek to have taken that gig.

 

[Henoch]

McCoy from The Undiscovered Country:

For twenty-seven years I have been ship's Surgeon aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise.

While they may have been away from the Enterprise, it seems that they were all kept close by. Even during various refits/layovers.

McCOY: For twenty-seven years I have been ship's Surgeon aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise. In three months I stand down.

I forgot about this line which gives us a possible in-universe date for the TUC movie. Assume McCoy joins the ship in 2266, then +27 years would be ~2293, but from TMP, McCoy quit Starfleet after the end of the 5 year mission (~2271) for at least one or more years, so, TUC must be ~2294 or later. YMMV

<My previous analyses in other threads using the dreaded stardates put TUC stardate 9521.6 on Nov 17, 2294. The basis for this assumes that one Earth year is 1000 stardates and the Charlie X stardate 1535 = Thanksgiving 11/23/2266.>

 

[mb22]

I would have thought he'd have avoided the injury during that filming by being too busy with Star Trek to have taken that gig.

Assuming Star Trek with Hunter would have lasted that long. Still, he may not have been in the wrong place at the wrong time and thus lived longer.

 

[Riley]

I think the "minor four" were falsely elevated to "essential" status by fandom through reruns and conventions. All were easily replaced over the run of TOS from time to time. (Guess that belongs over in "Unpopular Opinions)

It's a welcome opinion in this thread, at least to me. I do, however, believe that Scotty was not so easily replaced and while not part of the triumvirate, was far more interesting and important than Uhura, Sulu, and Chekov. I have nothing but gratitude and respect for Nichols, Takei, and Koening, but their characters simply weren't the focus, nor their positions irreplaceable. It's interesting to consider if that would have changed if TNG had been set on the Enterprise-A and Shatner, Nimoy, and Kelley had moved on after a few seasons.

 

[drt]

I think the "minor four" were falsely elevated to "essential" status by fandom through reruns and conventions. All were easily replaced over the run of TOS from time to time. (Guess that belongs over in "Unpopular Opinions)

I think the TOS movies also contributed to their elevation.

I sometimes wonder if Roddenberry had remained in charge of the films then Majel would have still be in them and we’d have a “minor five” instead.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Well, regardless of what Takei and Nichelle said after the fact, Star Trek was not an ensemble series ever. Like the majority of TV series of the era, it was a star driven series with a lead, a co-star and then a second. Everyone else were featured players. They're still important to the series, in varying degrees, but not essential. They weirdly blamed Shatner for this.

Fans did elevate them and the films cemented it, but I'm sure Star Trek II would have been just as successful if Takei and Nichols passed. Neither of them contributed much other than "hey they're back too!"

I sometimes wonder if Roddenberry had remained in charge of the films then Majel would have still be in them and we’d have a “minor five” instead.

I'm sure. Grace Lee would probably have been in there for more of the films as well, not just the pictures Nimoy had a controlling role in.

 

[Tallguy]

I sometimes wonder if Roddenberry had remained in charge of the films then Majel would have still be in them and we’d have a “minor five” instead.

No question. She's even in all the publicity cast photos. (Of course, so is Rand.)

Although it's funny how TMP goes to the trouble of elevating Chapel to M.D. and then she does all the same things that she did in the series, secondary to McCoy. (Who is, to be fair, the CHIEF Medical Officer.)

Something that strikes me about TMP is how little the "secondary" characters get to do. (Certainly compared to the later films.) As usual, Chekov gets the big moments and as usual they are either comic relief smart aleck remarks or he gets hurt.

While it's good to not over-elevate the secondary characters from TOS it would be silly to minimize their roles too far as well. They were all named characters, all of them mentioned in the writer's guide. They definitely had memorable (enough) personalities for the audience to attach to. Of course there was an expectation that they would return and would be featured characters.

Now the big question is what if Nicholas Meyer had not been so squeamish about having Khan torture Uhura instead of Chekov? (And what made him choose Chekov over Sulu?)

I'm sure. Grace Lee would probably have been in there for more of the films as well, not just the pictures Nimoy had a controlling role in.

And yet Rand returns for III, IV, (not V), and has a larger role in VI. All three of the Nimoy films. Chapel only returns for IV, correct?

IIRC when I met Whitney in 1987 and she was asked about being in future films her were remarks were something along the lines of "Not if Mr. Shatner is running the show."

 

[drt]

Although it's funny how TMP goes to the trouble of elevating Chapel to M.D. and then she does all the same things that she did in the series, secondary to McCoy. (Who is, to be fair, the CHIEF Medical Officer.)

I wonder if that's an artifact of Phase II planning? Where the production may have been considering that Kelley might not return for another series or that he might leave after a season or two.

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

Now the big question is what if Nicholas Meyer had not been so squeamish about having Khan torture Uhura instead of Chekov? (And what made him choose Chekov over Sulu?)

I can't say whether you're referring to script changes, though it might have been cool to watch Nichelle Nichols serve with Paul Winfield, ceti eels or not.

Sulu can emit one hell of a scream (see NAKED TIME) but Chekov moonlights as a pain receptor, and we take it in stride whenever he screams.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

In an alternate world, Jeff Hunter is signing autographs at conventions to this day.

For a ST series that was cancelled after 13 episodes?

It's the future, after all, and they didn't have to be involved in mindless action set pieces like the TNG crew embarrassingly found themselves.

Quoted for truth.

I think the "minor four" were falsely elevated to "essential" status by fandom through reruns and conventions. All were easily replaced over the run of TOS from time to time. (Guess that belongs over in "Unpopular Opinions)

It not an unpopular opinion--its the truth. I was there to see how the massive ST / sci-fi conventions and endless articles pushed the "Star Trek Family" idea, as if the entire cast were on equal level of stardom, importance to the series, etc., when that was clearly not the case. Conventions allowing fans to swallow largely unemployed actors' self-promotion tales, while seeing 70,000 images of the same actors for sale in the various dealers' rooms certainly made some feel Sulu, Scotty and Uhura were just as important to ST as the Big Three.

 

[fireproof78]

For a ST series that was cancelled after 13 episodes?

Also known as the Firefly effect.

 

[Airin]

It not an unpopular opinion--its the truth. I was there to see how the massive ST / sci-fi conventions and endless articles pushed the "Star Trek Family" idea, as if the entire cast were on equal level of stardom, importance to the series, etc., when that was clearly not the case. Conventions allowing fans to swallow largely unemployed actors' self-promotion tales, while seeing 70,000 images of the same actors for sale in the various dealers' rooms certainly made some feel Sulu, Scotty and Uhura were just as important to ST as the Big Three.

This, and the stories about Shatner constantly cutting their lines from scripts. I wasn't there, true, but I haven't seen any source other than these actors confirming this. Neither the directors, nor the producers, nor the writers. The only incident they talked about was Shatner complaining about his lines in "The Doomsday Machine", nothing else. Also comparing some of the early drafts with the aired episodes, it doesn't seem that there was ever much in there for Sulu or Uhura.

 

[somebuddyX]

I like thinking about the film franchise and how things might have gone differently, just for fun:

A different film starting off like "Planet of the Titans" or something else, like the one where time travelled Scotty recruits JFK and Hitler amongst others. TOS uniforms on the big screen?

A different sequel to TMP, like that Kennedy assassination time travel one, or something different. Kirk's back in command, Spock as his number one. One thing that sticks in my mind here is that you wouldn't have the training ship element of TWOK. It's not old and passed it's prime. This is a ship after a rebirth. There might not be the submarine warfare fight scenes, but a different type of ship fight scenes, although I guess they still have the heavy TMP model so maybe they would. TMP uniforms for a round 2.

A different sequel to TWOK. No Spock. No Leonard directing. No 1701 retirement and destruction. More of David and Saavik with the TOS crew. A different use of Genesis or it's in the background or not at all. A stable Genesis planet just out there. No spacedock or Excelsior.

A different sequel to TSFS with no time travel. Or an Eddie Murphy version of TVH, so no Gillian Taylor. Would Eddie and TOS characters work well together?

A different sequel to TVH. I think you still get Bill Shatner directing, but maybe he ditches the God plot. Something much more straightforward. No malfunctioning 1701-A. I dunno, this one is hard because Bill is such a force of nature. What if they did the two year turnaround instead of three, so a release date of 1988? You miss the writer's strike. You miss the competition of Indy 3, Ghostbusters II and Batman.

A different sequel to TFF. If somehow TFF had done better or was better received would Bill have come back a second time like how Leonard did? You got Frank Mancuso wanting a film for the 25th Anniversary though.. He got Leonard, Leonard got Nick Meyer, they did the wall coming down in space. I think TFF released as is was always going to lead to a TUC like course correction. Maybe some details would be different.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Also known as the Firefly effect.

So they got a movie?