Why are so many episode of DS9 ripoffs of movies?

[Trekwatcher]

I have been rewatching all of DS9 from start to finish. Before you flame me, just let me say at the outset how much I love the show.

But it is hard as hell for me to ignore just how many times they go ten miles out of their way to rip off another show or movie. The DS9 companion quotes Behr et al on this point endlessly i.e. they wanted to do Movie X on DS9. To me, it is clever to do the occasional homage or nod to another work, but in DS9 it is so common it makes me wonder if they did it whenever they lost a little creative steam. It also definitely happened more as the series went on.


A *few* examples:

The Darkness and the Light is Ten Little Indians
In Purgatory's Shadow/By Inferno's Light is The Great Escape
Sons and Daughters is Rio Grande
A Time to Stand is The Guns of Navarone
One Little Ship is Fantastic Voyage
Honor Among Thieves is Donnie Brasco

Again, I am totally fine with a nod or an homage, but sometimes it seems like they just got lazy. Do others feel this? Are there other examples others would care to cite?

 

[Marie1]

I didn't think what happened in DS9 weren't that implausible for ST. Plus I'm not familiar with all that stuff. Plus some of those movies are classics, so thats going to happen often. DS9 isn't the only one. Sometimes you see something and you think, thats great! Something like that could happen to the people in this show too, only...

I don't mind, usually. And the episodes you mention, well most of them are in my favourite list, so I doubly don't mind.

 

[Cyke101]

I doubt it's laziness on the writer's part, because some of those episodes you cite are pretty well-praised by the fandom, ie In Purgatory's Shadow/Inferno's Light. But I can't say that about all the episodes.

I disagree on One Little Ship being analogous to Fantastic Voyage anyway, as 1. one of the main cruxes of Fantastic Voyage was being within the human body; 2. Shrunken People as a concept seems to be a cliche in sci-fi for the most part; 3. Most DS9 episode articles on Memory-Alpha list the writers' sources of inspiration, including movies, so the writers are pretty honest about where their ideas come from, but Fantastic Voyage wasn't mentioned.

Also, in light of #3, I'm surprised you didn't cite one of DS9's more famous homages:
-Bad News Bears = Take Me to the Holosuite
-Ocean's Eleven = Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang

But I think part of what elevates the last two as more than just remakes/homages is that the writers took a familiar concept and then changed it to fit Star Trek, since sci-fi is never really about the technology or aliens or macguffins but how humanity is affected by the changes the future will bring. It's never enough to simply lift something and call it an homage, but something intrinsic within the story has to be adjusted so as to justify using another idea, and those two episodes were handled pretty well, imo.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I believe "Profit and Loss" was supposed to resemble Casablanca, and they were even told by the copyright holders of Casablanca to tone down the resemblance.

And for "One Little Ship"...wouldn't it be Honey, I Shrunk the Kids? Even before I saw the producers called it the same thing behind the scenes, I called that episode Honey, I Shrunk the Runabout!

Ohhh, and "Our Man Bashir"--seems like that was making fun of a lot of Bond movies...

 

[Cyke101]

I believe "Profit and Loss" was supposed to resemble Casablanca, and they were even told by the copyright holders of Casablanca to tone down the resemblance.

And for "One Little Ship"...wouldn't it be Honey, I Shrunk the Kids? Even before I saw the producers called it the same thing behind the scenes, I called that episode Honey, I Shrunk the Runabout!

Ohhh, and "Our Man Bashir"--seems like that was making fun of a lot of Bond movies...

Oh, IIRC, MGM had to ask the DS9 to tone down the Bond references, too! So much so that the next time we see secret agent Bashir, the references were farrr more subtle.

 

[tomalak301]

What's the difference between lazyness and inspiration. I ask because reading the DS9 companion, most episodes were inspired by various movies, tv shows, or something else the writers wanted to incorporate into the series. I think for the most part they did a great job with it but others think it's lazy writing. Interesting.

 

[Trekwatcher]

What's the difference between lazyness and inspiration. I ask because reading the DS9 companion, most episodes were inspired by various movies, tv shows, or something else the writers wanted to incorporate into the series. I think for the most part they did a great job with it but others think it's lazy writing. Interesting.

I agree that most of the episodes did turn out well, but they definitely did seem to do this sort of thing more that I would expect. Also, to me "One Little Ship" really is "Fantastic Voyage" with the Defiant being the sick patient the miniaturized crew has to help heal (and wander about, etc).

 

[Navaros]

I'm not sure if they are ripoffs of movies so much as they are ripoffs of really old literature. One of the DS9 writers, Wolfe IIRC, commented on the B5 vs. DS9 controversy that both of them were ripping off the Classics such as Homer's works.

I certainly don't think either Donnie Brasco, nor Honor Among Thieves, was the first movie/TV production to use that plot; not by a longshot.

Our Man Bashir is a Bond ripoff, no doubt about that.

In any case, I'd much rather see DS9 produce a great episode ripped off from old material than alternatives like totally pointless unwatchable tripe like Voyager's "Fair Haven", "Spirit Folk" etc. That's what' I'd call lazy.

 

[Marie1]

Thats a bit to human-y for me...

 

[Cyke101]

What's the difference between lazyness and inspiration. I ask because reading the DS9 companion, most episodes were inspired by various movies, tv shows, or something else the writers wanted to incorporate into the series. I think for the most part they did a great job with it but others think it's lazy writing. Interesting.

I agree that most of the episodes did turn out well, but they definitely did seem to do this sort of thing more that I would expect. Also, to me "One Little Ship" really is "Fantastic Voyage" with the Defiant being the sick patient the miniaturized crew has to help heal (and wander about, etc).

Mm, I'm gonna go with Ghemor's point about it being more like Honey, I Shrunk the Kids. One Little Ship is definitely more lighthearted and less action-oriented in a near Disney-vein, and frankly, everyone's seen Fantastic Voyage. The writers would've definitely fessed up to that movie being an inspiration if that were the case.

Besides, like I said before, what sci-fi show didn't have the cast shrinking? There have even been whole tv shows whose sole plot was that our heroes were smaller than everyone else

 

[Fencer]

You forgot Homefront and Paradise lost which were inspired by Seven Days in May

 

[Trekwatcher]

There are many, and I just listed a few.

Even "Duet," my all-time-favorite DS9 ep, is a retelling of "The Man in the Glass Booth."

 

[jgdst]

Hmm I didn't think there were that many 'inspired' stories. Given that I haven't seen a lot of films listed as the inspiration behind episodes, and wasn't even aware of the parallels, it doesn't bother me too much.

If anything, I'd think it would be a testament to the DS9 writers and the original writers that the story was good enough to be re-told, and in as strange a setting as DS9.

The ones I am aware of as being homages, I've actually quite enjoyed - Our Man Bashir and Starship Down to name a couple. They're still Trek enough to be considered stories in their own right I think.

For an example of the opposite being true, I'd use later episodes of Sliders as evidence.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Does anyone see any resemblance between "the valiant" and the first Star Wars movie where the Rebels try to destroy the Death Star?

In one scene a rebel fighter launches a torpedoe into a shaft, they think it worked, but then the pilot tells them it didn't work; it just impacted on the surface...

In the Valiant, they launch a torpedoe and it goes in and the ship appears to explode, but then the first officer tells everyone it didn't work.

 

[Fencer]

Does anyone see any resemblance between "the valiant" and the first Star Wars movie where the Rebels try to destroy the Death Star?

In one scene a rebel fighter launches a torpedoe into a shaft, they think it worked, but then the pilot tells them it didn't work; it just impacted on the surface...

In the Valiant, they launch a torpedoe and it goes in and the ship appears to explode, but then the first officer tells everyone it didn't work.

Sure. But George Lucas lifted the entire Death Star attack from The Dambusters, complete with dialogue.

I will admit that I like this episode purely because the attack on the weak point on the Dominion Battleship fails.

 

[Sci]

Does anyone see any resemblance between "the valiant" and the first Star Wars movie where the Rebels try to destroy the Death Star?

In one scene a rebel fighter launches a torpedoe into a shaft, they think it worked, but then the pilot tells them it didn't work; it just impacted on the surface...

In the Valiant, they launch a torpedoe and it goes in and the ship appears to explode, but then the first officer tells everyone it didn't work.

I think that's a really superficial resemblance at best.

I'm surprised no one has noted the most obvious film homage: "The Magnificent Ferengi" from The Magnificent Seven.

 

[The Badger]

. Also, to me "One Little Ship" really is "Fantastic Voyage" with the Defiant being the sick patient the miniaturized crew has to help heal (and wander about, etc).

Now if Jadzia had been wearing a skin tight white rubber wetsuit the resemblance would have been greater.
The episode would also have been much more enjoyable.

 

[MyCylon]

Well, I for one think that just about every story that can be told HAS BEEN told. Making movies or tv shows, writing, painting, you name - everything is based on something in some way since it's all been done before in some form.

The trick, and I think this is something DS9 achieved, is indeed taking an existing idea or story and then adapting it in such a way that it becomes a work in its own right.

Take In Purgatory's Shadow/By Inferno's Light and The Great Escape, for example. What's the prime parallel here? POWs escaping from a prison camp. But that's not really the major point in the DS9 episode at all, is it? It is one storyline. But even within this one storyline, the differences are more important. For example, one of the key things here is Garak and his father Tain. It's about these characters, and they're clearly different characters from the ones in The Great Escape for example.

Hence you've got a similar idea or story, but it becomes a work in its own right because different characters will mean a completely different perspective and twists. And there's just so much more going on on top of that.

As shows like Our Man Bashir, I don't think that can be called a rip-off at all. It's clearly an homage and a parody I would say.

 

[Trekwatcher]

I'm surprised no one has noted the most obvious film homage: "The Magnificent Ferengi" from The Magnificent Seven.

With regards to "The Magnificent Ferengi," in the DS9 Companion, they actually say that they only realy similarity between the two are the titles, and they at least *Tried* not to make them the same. Sigh.

As for "The Dambusters," and Star Wars, it is hard to conclude anything but the fact that Lucas borrowed/stole/copied from this movie in countless ways. There are many clips of this movie on Youtube to this effect. I don't think one can really say otherwise on that one.