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When did you feel each show found its footing?

Admiral Jean-Luc Picard

Commodore
Commodore
When did you feel each show found its footing? It could be the first episode, a first or second season episode, the show getting retooled mid-series, maybe when a new character joins the cast to shake things up, and so on. So, for each series you like, what's the episode where it "got good?"

Broadcast Era
TOS: I saw random reruns as a kid, didn't care for it really, because when I was little, only TNG was Star Trek. :lol: Later on, I got 3 of those 2-episode DVD's to give the show a proper go. The pilot "Where No Man Has Gone Before" made me a fan. I later saw the show proper on DVD and am giving it a second go on Blu-ray.
TAS: Rather than treat this as a 2nd show, most fans consider this an animated 4th season more or less, is that right?
TNG: I found the show in reruns as an Elementary Schooler. I remembered it as that space show where all they did was talk and hold board room meetings. When I saw "The Best of Both Worlds" in reruns, I was hooked and became a fan.
DS9: I didn't care for it at first, it was just too much of a departure, too "not-Trek." When Worf joined the cast, I was like, now I have to watch. The S4 premiere with Worf and the Klingons made me a fan. First time I saw S1-3 proper beyond a few first runs and reruns was on DVD, and holy crap, I was like, where was I? "Oh." :lol:
VOY: Loved the 2-hour premiere, hated the "alone in the DQ" premise. I did watch every episode, waiting for it to "get really good." I got sold with "Deadlock" (2-21), the twin Voyagers episode. :eek: I have the whole series on DVD and found appreciation for the early seasons (1-2).
ENT: Like Voyager, loved the 2-hour premiere. "The Andorian Incident" (1-7) and "Cold Front" (1-11) were the episodes that got me hooked. Early season 1 kind'a stumbled around, but found footing mid-season.

Streaming Era
DIS:
When this first came out in 2017, loved the first episode, but I didn't want to have to "subscribe" to watch the series, so I shrugged and passed. When Picard came out and I finally had to get CBS All Access (before renamed Paramount+), I was like, OK, while I wait for PIC S2, I guess I have to watch this now. I wasn't sure about the opening two-parter, but I was sold by the end of the 3rd episode. :eek:
ST: I mainly watched this, because it's a companion show to Disco. It was fun. :)
PIC: I was sold simply on the news that this was even happening. :lol: Loved S1, every episode. S2 had a strong start (1-3), became CSI Picard (4-8), and had a strong finish (9-10). Season 3 was fun, but I wish they had left the ship and not just thot nearly the entire season on set. My only real nitpicks are Seven's insta-career, not knowing if the Titan-A is new or 5 years old, ships being retired too quickly, Spacedock being moved to another solar system and repurposed, and Earth's new spacedock being rebuilt or repaired like nothing happened in just one year. Why can't Earth just have two spacedocks? My S3 nitpicking is mostly just "starship stuff," basically.
LD: I wasn't sure about this show, it felt too... fan-fic. "Moist Vessel" (1-4) was the one that sold me on this. :lol:
PRO: Sold as of the 1-hour premiere. :beer:
SNW: Saving this for when I finish my Disco S1-2 rewatch.
 
TOS --> Season 1: I don't need to explain this one.
TNG --> Season 3: I don't need to explain this one either.
DS9 --> Season 2: This is when the series really began to branch out.
VOY --> Season 4: Seven of Nine, the Borg, Species 8472, the Krennim, and the Hirogen.
ENT --> Season 4: Finally seeing the start of what led to the UFP being founded.
DSC --> Season 3: The 32nd Century is where the show belongs.
PIC --> N/A. Each season is too different from each other.
SNW --> N/A. It's too early in the series' life cycle for me to be able to tell at this stage.
 
TOS --> Season 1: I don't need to explain this one.
TNG --> Season 3: I don't need to explain this one either.
DS9 --> Season 2: This is when the series really began to branch out.
VOY --> Season 4: Seven of Nine, the Borg, Species 8472, the Krennim, and the Hirogen.
ENT --> Season 4: Finally seeing the start of what led to the UFP being founded.
DSC --> Season 3: The 32nd Century is where the show belonged.
PIC --> N/A. Each season is too different from each other.
SNW --> N/A. It's too early in the series' life cycle for me to be able to tell at this stage.
TOS & TNG :shrug:
Was DS9 S2 that different from S1?
VOY's 4th season was really good, can't argue with you here.
ENT: What about the bulk of the show, S1-3?
DIS: S3-5 is much better than S1-2? I've only seen S1-2 and 5 episodes into S3.
PIC: True, but was there not an episode that made really like the show? Only 30 to pick from.
SNW: From the 2 seasons (20 episodes), is there on that stands out?
 
Was DS9 S2 that different from S1?
VOY's 4th season was really good, can't argue with you here.
ENT: What about the bulk of the show, S1-3?
DIS: S3-5 is much better than S1-2? I've only seen S1-2 and 5 episodes into S3.
PIC: True, but was there not an episode that made really like the show? Only 30 to pick from.
SNW: From the 2 seasons (20 episodes), is there on that stands out?
DS9: Greater focus on the Bajorans, the Cardassians, the introduction of the Maquis, fleshing out the characters far more than what we saw in Season 1, and last but not least: introducing the Dominion.

ENT: I think Season 4 is when the series took the prequel premise the most seriously.

DSC: I liked Seasons 3-5 about as much as Seasons 1-2. I just think the series is better suited to taking place after everything else, instead of before TOS.

PIC: "Remembrance" is one of my favorite episodes of New Trek. Second only to "Calypso". But if we're looking at the series as a whole, it re-tooled itself all three seasons. So, as a series, it was in a constant state-of-flux. I love the series, but I have to give my honest assessment.

SNW: I haven't even seen every episode. But I think a lot still depends on where Seasons 3 and 4 (and 5 if they get one) takes the series, and just how much like TOS the series ends up becoming. It sounds like Season 3 will continue the direction Season 2 took things in, trying out as many different things as possible. So, it's likely the series found its footing in Season 2, but that's not going to be cemented until at least Season 3 is out.

TOS and TNG: My take on those is the most common one. Thus I didn't think I needed to explain it.
 
DS9: Greater focus on the Bajorans, the Cardassians, the introduction of the Maquis, fleshing out the characters far more than what we saw in Season 1, and last but not least: introducing the Dominion.
Fair enough, all great points. :beer:
ENT: I think Season 4 is when the series took the prequel premise the most seriously.
Did it not do that from the word go with the 22nd century, pre-Federation setting? What about the early-Starfleet pre-Federation Enterprise? Are you in the camp who didn't like S1-3, because no Romulans, no Federation lead-up? For me, I was content with the first two seasons just being the first Enterprise and first crew just checking everything out for the first time more or less. Prior to Enterprise's Warp 5 engine, Starfleet was likely mostly space taxi and defense. I didn't need it to be "Birth of the Federation," but I did enjoy (most) of Season 4. :D
DSC: I liked Seasons 3-5 about as much as Seasons 1-2. I just think the series is better suited to taking place after everything else, instead of before TOS.
Why is that?
PIC: "Remembrance" is one of my favorite episodes of New Trek. Second only to "Calypso". But if we're looking at the series as a whole, it re-tooled itself all three seasons. So, as a series, it was in a constant state-of-flux. I love the series, but I have to give my honest assessment.
Calypso is your favorite Trek? May I ask why? I wouldn't say PIC retooled itself twice over. I'd argue that it told three complete stories. What do you think of this POV? When I think of retooling, I think of Worf joining DS9, the Dominion War, Seven on Voyager, Enterprise retooling with the Xindi and again in S4. Discovery off to the distant future for S3-5, and so on. PIC feels more like a trilogy of miniseries than a 3-season show.
SNW: I haven't even seen every episode. But I think a lot still depends on where Seasons 3 and 4 (and 5 if they get one) takes the series, and just how much like TOS the series ends up becoming. It sounds like Season 3 will continue the direction Season 2 took things in, trying out as many different things as possible. So, it's likely the series found its footing in Season 2, but that's not going to be cemented until at least Season 3 is out.
Fair enough. When I watch an ongoing series, I focus on what's been released, not what's coming down the road. :shrug:
TOS and TNG: My take on those is the most common one. Thus I didn't think I needed to explain it.
I don't know what that is. :shrug:
 
TOS:
When I started watching it, the episodes weren't broadcast in proper order, but randomly. So I'd say it was good right from the beginning. Good and bad episodes were almost evenly distributed over its 3 seasons (with a slightly worse good/bad ratio in season 3).

TNG:
I somewhat enjoyed the first two seasons already, and felt there was continuous improvement, but season 3 was when I felt it got really good. It maintained a high level until the end, occasional dud episodes notwithstanding.

DS9:
Mid-season 2. The paranoid episode with the O'Brien clone was the first episode that made me think "this is not just a TNG spin-off", and then came a couple of amazing episodes towards the end of the season, "Blood Oath", "The Wire", the mirror universe episode and O'Brien on a Cardassian court -- plus the season finale. Like TNG, it remained on a high level ever since.

VOY:
I don't feel the show ever got *really* good. It started "meh", declined in the 2nd half of season 2 ("Threshold" and "Prototype" being real trash low points, and even the decent "Death Wish" or "Meld" couldn't save the season, imo), got a bit better in season 3, and peaked in season 4 (without ever reaching TNG or DS9 heights). From season 5 on, it got worse again, imo.

ENT:
I moderately enjoyed the first 2 seasons, but it only got *really* good in season 4. Too bad that was its last season.

Have to think about the newer shows for a moment.
 
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DSC:
It started mediocre, with both elements I liked and some I hated, but for the first two seasons, I felt there was potential and the show could become good if it focused on the good elements. That didn't happen in season 3, but it remained mediocre, with elements I disliked increasing. Then it went totally downhill from season 4 on, imo.

PIC:
I see it less like a series, more like three extra long movie-like events. So I judge them individually: S1 was good, S2 disappointing, and S3 great, imo.

SNW:
Great from the start!

LD:
A bit tame in s1, but has been really good since s2.

PRO:
After a couple of episodes, when it became less of a Star Wars clone and more of a real Star Trek show.
 
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Are you in the camp who didn't like S1-3, because no Romulans, no Federation lead-up?
Like I've said before, I'm in the camp that thought the first two seasons were dull and I'm in the camp that didn't like the direction of Season 3 with the Xindi and the 9/11 allegory. I would've preferred Romulans and more Federation lead-up but, if it were dull, it wouldn't have mattered.

Why is that?
To quote Spock, "It would be impossible to discuss the subject without a common frame of reference." But, if you really want to know, it's because Discovery is a series that wants to shake things up as much as possible. Hard to do that when you know what's coming next.

And also, if Discovery stayed a prequel, it would've always had "Why don't other ships have a Spore Drive?" looming over its head. And anything discovered or encountered in DSC that they shouldn't know about in a Pre-TOS setting doesn't have to be classified anymore.

If you have to hide what they discover and if the Spore Drive, Discovery's defining feature, can't be known or can't take off (otherwise, why didn't Voyager use a Spore Drive to get home?), then you have a series where being a sequel is a better fit for it than being a prequel.

Calypso is your favorite Trek? May I ask why?
It's a quiet, personal, intimate story, without a lot of mysteriousness, and a solid emotional core. Zora is one of my favorite characters in Discovery. Craft has a lot of charm.

I don't know what that is. :shrug:
Most people here think TOS hit the ground running. That means Season 1. I happen to agree with them.

Most people think Season 3 of TNG hit its stride. It's the season Michael Piller became Showrunner. It's the season it finally felt like TNG as most people to think of it, instead of an '80s version of TOS. It's the season that gave us "The Survivors", "The Enemy", "The Defector", "Deja Q", "Yesterday's Enterprise", "The Offspring", "Sins of the Father", "Sarek", and "The Best of Both Worlds, Part I". Classic after classic after classic.

Please don't press me any further about "But why?" Thanks. I stuck up for you the other day when I didn't have to and, after a certain point, you have to accept someone's opinion is their opinion and leave it alone.
 
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TOS - "Where No Man Has Gone Before"
TAS - "Beyond the Farthest Star"
TNG - "Unnatural Selection"
DS9 - "Battle Lines"
VOY - "Prototype"
ENT - "Carbon Creek"
DISCO - Never
PIC - Never
LDS - "Cupid's Errant Arrow"
PROD - insufficient data
SNW - "Strange New Worlds"
 
Oh, and TAS:

I'm not a huge TAS fan, I think it's a mostly unnecessary addendum to TOS and I guess I wouldn't miss much if it didn't exist. But maybe that's partly because of the bad history TAS had here in Germany: Until 1994, the only version available in Germany was a terrible 70s dubbing that totally butchered the original. The voice actors were not the same as on TOS, every episode was cut down to less than 15 minutes, and every second sentence, stupid jokes were inserted with no reference whatsoever to the original, which kind of turned it into a self-parody.

When an uncut, serious dubbing with the "correct" voices was released on VHS in 1994, I already felt a tad too old for the show. I kind of regret that I didn't get the chance to watch a decent version as a kid.
 
TNG - Season 3
DS9 - The beginning. this show for me is more when did it lose it's footing and that's Season 7.
VOYAGER - It found its footing by staying completely still. Every so often it would jump really high but then it would land back in the exact same spot.
ENTERPRISE - It also stayed really still for two seasons and occasionally jumped really high. Then the ground collapsed and it found itself on an uneven surface. It tried balancing but by the time it had perfected it the ground collapsed again. Then it got used to balancing again and then the ground collapsed again and it just tumbled away into nothingness. So never.
 
TOS season 1 (no comment needed)
TAS best one was Spock going back in time
TNG season 3 (great episodes in this season and leaning away from the humans are so perfect rubbish)
DS9 season 4 (introducing Worf was the best move, it needed the shake up)
VOY season 4 (Introducing Seven of Nine was a great move, it needed the shake up)
ENT season 1 (Earth bumbling around the galaxy on their first attempt sounds about right to me)
DISC season 1 and 2 (I don't mind prequels, and I don't care set designs look different 50 years after TOS aired)
PIC Season 1 (Not a TNG fan, so getting away from all that with new characters was fine by me)
LD Season 1, (it set out to do what it was meant to do, whether one likes it or not)
PROD Season 1 (no comment needed)
 
DS9: Greater focus on the Bajorans, the Cardassians, the introduction of the Maquis, fleshing out the characters far more than what we saw in Season 1, and last but not least: introducing the Dominion.
DS9 S1 has some great episodes... but there are only 5 or so of them out of 20. Half the season is TNG leftover plots.

Whereas an argument could be made DS9 S2 > DS9 S3.
 

TOS --> Season 1: I don't need to explain this one.
Then I will. I'm not properly immersed in the others, except to say FAR BEYOND THE STARS was DS9 at its most firm-footed. So, moving back....

........TOS was fair at first, then good two weeks in a row, then great, and not just because of Spock's characterization in THE NAKED TIME. That's when TOS found its footing, and became a sci-fi show both American sexes could consistently enjoy.
 
TOS: Basically hit the ground running.
TAS:
There was never a point that I thought 'Damn, this is really good now'.
TNG:
S3 is where it feels like itself, but for me it got good around Matter of Honor and Measure of a Man in S2.
DS9:
S2's Blood Oath is where the series started getting some traction for me.
VOY:
Others like Before and After, Real Life and Distant Origin way more than me, but the end of S3 is where it stopped stumbling.
ENT:
The middle third of S3 was okay, but the last third is where it started being consistently good.

DSC:
There was never a point where I thought 'they've nailed it, Disco is working on all cylinders now', but the first season was pretty solid.
PIC:
Season 3 had real flaws, but it felt like the show was being what it wanted to be.
LDS: Season 1 was good from the start, but Crisis Point was where it started being great.
PRO:
Once they got past the S1 episode First Con-tact it was pretty smooth sailing.
SNW:
I get the impression that people who love this loved it from the start. It hasn't clicked for me yet though.
 
I love Deep Space Nine and would argue it became consistently "good" in season 2. The last third of season 2 is a really strong set of episodes and begins the main story-arc of the series with the Dominion.

However, the weird thing about DS9 is I think you can make an argument it doesn't really settle into its "final form" until season 4.

"The Way of the Warrior" is kinda like a second pilot for the series that reorients the show for a while to being about conflict with the Klingons. It also reintroduces the characters (especially "Bald Sisko") for anyone that was a TNG viewer but wasn't watching DS9 and might be tempted to give it another chance since Worf is now part of the fun.
 
TOS --> Season 1: First two seasons were uniformly strong, then began to run out of gas.
TNG --> Season 2 or 3: It stumbled in S1, walked in S2, and ran in S3.
DS9 --> Started strong, stayed strong. Deserved an 8th season more than either TNG or VOY.
VOY --> It didn't. It face-planted in Season 3, then committed to the Reset Button party that it was.
ENT --> Season 3 or 4. S3 allowed it to embrace serialization, and S4 allowed it to develop the TOS world. If it had gotten a S5 with Shran, that could have have been where it really jumped to warp.
DSC --> No opinion.
PIC --> All seasons had good parts and bad parts.
PRO --> Started strong. Haven't seen the full second season yet.
SNW --> Started strong, has remained strong.
 
Star Trek: I watched it late so I really can't say

TNG: I started watching in Season 4 with the Q episode, but upon rewatches, Season 3 is when the series really did get going

DS9: Season 2 started really expanding the DS9 universe and utilizing the show's strength

VOY: Season 4 had so many great episodes. Season 3 was ok, but there were so many mediocre episodes too, and then you got the trilogy of terror with Darkling, Rise and Favorite Son

ENT: Season 3 really started to bring some urgency to the series. While I like season 1, it was wallowing in mediocrity for it's first two years

DIS: Probably Season 2 with Pike.

Picard: I appreciate season 1, really don't like Season 2, and Season 3 was memberbarries with the excellent Ro episode in the middle

SNW: Too early to say. Maybe midway through Season 1

Lower Decks: Season 2

Prodigy: Probably Time Amok was when I realized Prodigy was bringing us something special. Kobyashi was great too, but Time Amok had so much heart.
 
TOS - It was in reruns when I first started watching it. I don't really remember which episode I saw first, but I loved it right away.

TNG - got a bit better in season 4.

DS9 - Liked it a lot right from Emissary. Turned to Greatness within season 1, with Duet and Progress. Episodes like that let me forgive a lot of Move Along Home.
 
I'm going to disagree: a solid footing isn't quite the same as getting good. A great episode is not necessarily a harbinger of how a series will evolve, and a mediocre episode might provide key developments that the series will build upon.

TOS: Devil in the Dark--high concept, civil rights concern, humor--this will be Star Trek 's jam
TNG: Q Who?--a great villain that could provide both a major danger as well as a metaphor for many social and political concerns
DS9: Progress--DS9 would love two-handers in which the main character had their values tested
VOY: Faces--the series was often at its best when it took a Twilight Zone approach
ENT: Cease Fire--this sort of multicultural relationships would dominate the best seasons
Disco--New Dawn--still not quite the atmosphere of The 101, but starting to feel more like adventure with teen drama influence and less like wannabe Game of Thrones
Picard: N/A-- the series constantly changed character, between and within seasons
Lower Decks: Veritas--deft combinations of satire and nostalgia
SNA: Spock Amock--lots of Friends influence
 
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