For me, the MU two-parter left me feeling "eh." I found the Augment trilogy to be far more fun.
What was up with the B&B hate back in the 90's & 00's?
- Thread starter Admiral Jean-Luc Picard
- Start date
My memory of the events 25 years ago is this:
Berman and Braga weren't getting any hate until ENT's first season was halfway through when fans realized three or four episodes were rehashes of same episodes just a year prior of VOY's last season.
It was only years later we found out that Berman and Braga both had very different and dare I say ambitious and bold ideas about ENT, but UPN and Dawn Ostroff said no.
UPN was also very much responsible for VOY being the way it is, they did not want a scratch on the hull and needed everyone's uniform to be perfect IIRC.
B&B got a lot of flack for mistakes that weren't their fault, but also got heaps of praise for things they shouldn't be credited for.
Berman and Braga weren't getting any hate until ENT's first season was halfway through when fans realized three or four episodes were rehashes of same episodes just a year prior of VOY's last season.
It was only years later we found out that Berman and Braga both had very different and dare I say ambitious and bold ideas about ENT, but UPN and Dawn Ostroff said no.
UPN was also very much responsible for VOY being the way it is, they did not want a scratch on the hull and needed everyone's uniform to be perfect IIRC.
B&B got a lot of flack for mistakes that weren't their fault, but also got heaps of praise for things they shouldn't be credited for.
Took me a moment too, but "Bed" and "Breakfast" became "Berman" and "Braga" as I kept reading on.
Same here. STFC is full of stupid meta jokes and even more clichés. The new engine core is a big lump of unconvincing plastic that proves that a 3-story lump of plastic doesn't look convincing as a futuristic space engine, complete with breakable glass plasma conduits where the substance melts organic flesh with ease yet this engine room is chock full of people, and a viewscreen that materializes as a pointless "ooh and aah" moment. Even same-scene antics, for which my favorite is "Don't shoot near the deflector dish because antiprotons will nullify the plot armor and kills us" ends up - about 5 seconds later - with Worf or someone aims at 3 feet away from the edge of it and - thank goodness - the plot armor's field intensity tripled. But it did kill something - it killed the scene's suspense at the time.
In 1969, "The Way to Eden".
(Well, to be fair, in original run, the show wasn't popular - but fast forward a few years and everybody digged it! Still, always get 30-somethings to play 15-year-olds, that always works...)
Fair points, and Fuller was good...
Once the template is in place, it's hard to break free. And with DS9's ratings not being stellar and fears of serialization and all, it's arguable as to why UPN wanted VOY to ditch its roots and become more like TNG-lite, instead of bickering factions and all that...
Yeah, the musical episode was an interesting experiment. A bit silly, doesn't really fit (IMHO), but it would have been better if another glowing ball of light being caused everyone to belch out into generic songs spoonfeeding what we already know and not adding anything novel. Would have been a fun Q gag, too. But it makes sense to get away from those two tropes too, hence a spatial subspace swirly anomaly - ditching the template. It probably helps if one loves musicals to begin with, so in the end it's objectively subjective and that's it. Apart from "Xanadu", but who doesn't love "Xanadu"? Oh, wait...
A urinal needs a cake, so it's even more surprising that Neelix the chef wasn't in the shape of a urinal cake... but that would be too fanwanky and clogging so many urinals with so many faces of select Trek-related entities that fans hated. But 2009 simply did what it was set out to do and it wasn't not unentertaining, but it was the first time that Trek sidelined more thoughtful ideas for more whiz-bang action, no pun intended. It also created the concept of exploring alternate timelines, which I was hoping the sequels would really have done instead of just namedropping old characters and situations, assuming moviegoers would have remembered 2009's setting up the realm with this new timeline. ID was really good until it went Khanhill from that unneeded reveal, and BEY didn't deserve a backlash, especially prior to its release. While B&B never got that potty treatment, Abrams' era shouldn't have either. Like or dislike any era, it does bring in new fans - and they may seek out the older shows and might even like them despite the different production approaches as well.
This thread does bring up something else... VGR vs VOY
The early press releases about episodes used "VOY". But then all the reference materials and licensed stuff used "VGR". Most people online during the show's run and into the 2000's used VGR, so I switched over.
When did VOY make a comeback?
The early press releases about episodes used "VOY". But then all the reference materials and licensed stuff used "VGR". Most people online during the show's run and into the 2000's used VGR, so I switched over.
When did VOY make a comeback?
I prefer VOY because VGR is too much like V'Ger.
EH? When I first registered in this forum summer 2001, two whole months before Enterprise even premiered, Berman and Braga hatred was already in full swing.
"VOY" seems to have become popular again when it was used in the Lower Decks episode We'll Always Have Tom Paris. Though your claim that early press releases for Voyager used that abbreviation is interesting, as it proves Bernd at EAS was wrong when he claimed he was the one who thought "VOY" up and Lower Decks was copying him.
Okay slight clarification... The Vidiot site used "VOY", while the press releases they posted used "STV". Damn, that was 25-30ish years ago, scary...
My books are in storage, so I can't check what Pocket Books was using at the time. But I do seem to remember noticing the Encyclopedia using VGR and going wait, what?
I've used VOY for 30 years.
VGR makes me think of V'Ger.
VGR makes me think of V'Ger.
I remember people than as well as for a while after said, insisted that a Stranded Ship with Limited Resources struggling to survive was the basic premise and yet a lot of episodes really didn't feel like that at all, a lot of episodes felt like they could just be happening in Alpha Quadrant/around, just outside of home sector without any changes.
I think Insurrection was already quickly regarded as pretty for nerds/die-hards only although it was still close enough to the series to still get some goodwill. I think the only ads I saw for Nemesis were on UPN and I just got sense Hey we're trying to do do First Contact again dark and action-packed but with VAMPires-likes and Romulans, don't remember if the ads also involved, tried to hype up evil twins but I think they did at least that Shinzon was young evil dark twin. Really don't get at all how they thought having two evil twins in one movie would be even respectable let alone exciting. I think the general public did get the sense that that was really for die-hards only but even the die-hards weren't looking forward to, liking it.
I like the implication that unless the captain is present everyone is just staring at a blank wall.
I've always used VOY.
I used to lurk here and several other forums, yes the B&B hate was here but the absolute seethe started after ENT S1 when halfway through we got three rehashed storylines from VOY of all things.
I like to use "V'ger" just to be a wise guy.
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