Season 7 - So many things gone wrong.

[GotNoRice]

I'm currently re-watching DS9 and I love the entire show, but for me the show hits it's stride in Seasons 4-6. Then all of a sudden toward the very end of season 6 and much of Season 7 things just go downhill. There is still a lot of good in Season 7, but it feels almost like driving down a road with huge pot-holes in it after you just got off the freeway...

Ezri Dax- I did not like Jadzia being killed off, but introducing this new character for season 7 was just terrible. Here we are, the last season of the show, in the middle of the dominion war, where we still have tons of unfinished arcs from the first 6 seasons of DS9, and in some cases even arcs from TNG (Gowron, Worf, O'Brien, etc) that need to be wrapped up. Instead, part of every episode (Ezri was in EVERY season 7 episode) and in several cases entire episodes were wasted introducing this useless, obnoxious, annoying new character. I would have loved to have simply given other cast members like Martok, Garak, Nog, Rom or others more screen time instead. I get that they needed a certain minimum of female cast members though - only legit reason I've ever heard. Maybe they should have simply made Leeta a main cast member somehow? Could not have been any worse than Ezri.

Vic Fontaine- WTF? I don't know about you, but it's pretty lame to watch Sci-Fi about a 24th century space-station in the middle of an intergalactic war only to be forced to constantly indulge what was obviously one of the writers obsessions with early-mid 20th century Jazz music. Every time he is on screen we have to sit through what seems like an entire 5 minute song, I guess because he is so amazing.

Kira and Odo- This just never came off as natural for me, and in most cases sort of made me cringe. I think part of it is because Odo always gave me that humble grandpa-style vibe, and that isn't the sort of character that works well for making-out on-screen all the time. Maybe it's also because the actors never really thought it was a good idea either and you could always sort of tell via their acting.

Dukat religion- I liked Dukat a lot more earlier in the series when he was a more complex character that even had a bit of good in him. When he devolved into a much more simplistic, almost stereotypical, evil religious bad guy, the character just wasn't as interesting anymore IMO.

Mirror universe- This was only one episode thankfully, but one too many. I hate the entire mirror universe concept, particularly the way they shoe-horn in "mirror-universe" things from the regular universe regardless of any logic. The mirror-universe certainly is not unique to season 7, but it is another wasted episode that should have been used to help wrap up the series.


Overall I still enjoy Season 7, and I love DS9. I think part of what makes me a bit bitter about this is how this ended up being not just the end of DS9 but largely the end of Alpha-quadrant Star-Trek from this era. Voyager ended instantly when they got home so did nothing in regards to furthering any alpha-quadrant arcs (except for Barclay I guess?). Star-Trek: Nemesis Sucked to the point of ending the franchise (until the "Reboot" obviously) even if it did provide a tiny bit of resolution for some of TNG-related arcs.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I get that they needed a certain minimum of female cast members though - only legit reason I've ever heard. Maybe they should have simply made Leeta a main cast member somehow? Could not have been any worse than Ezri.

No, it should have been Kasidy Yates. Penny Johnson has shown herself to be an excellent actor, and it would have made sense to show more of Sisko's private life, given the direction the story went.

it's pretty lame to watch Sci-Fi about a 24th century space-station in the middle of an intergalactic war only to be forced to constantly indulge what was obviously one of the writers obsessions with early-mid 20th century Jazz music.

I don't think it's any better than TNG's constant classical concerts (to be clear I like Classical Music and Jazz, although not the crooner thing).

This just never came off as natural for me, and in most cases sort of made me cringe.

It's a relationship. They explored it. The actors gave it there all.

I liked Dukat a lot more earlier in the series when he was a more complex character that even had a bit of good in him. When he devolved into a much more simplistic, almost stereotypical, evil religious bad guy, the character just wasn't as interesting anymore IMO.

Dukat was always Nazi, just more obviously so. I could have done without him becoming the anti-Sisko.

Mirror universe- This was only one episode thankfully, but one too many. I hate the entire mirror universe concept, particularly the way they shoe-horn in "mirror-universe" things from the regular universe regardless of any logic. The mirror-universe certainly is not unique to season 7, but it is another wasted episode that should have been used to help wrap up the series.

That shark was jumped in season 4.

 

[GulBahana]

I didn't like the Sara Sisko prophet mom stuff but it didn't ruin the season for me.

 

[Armus]

Season 7 - So many things right!

A lot of Season 7 comes down to whether you like Ezri or not. I liked her character. I thought the actress playing her was far superior to some of the other cast members.

I agree that "The Emperor's New Cloak" was an all time new low for the mirror universe. 100% agreed.

 

[kkt]

I liked Ezri, quite a bit. And I liked Vic and jazz and swing standards. So season 7 was pretty good to me. Yes, Emperor's New Cloak was a mirror episode too far, and I think it would have been more interesting to keep Dukat ambiguously evil with some redeeming features, but overall I liked the season and how well they wrapped up a lot of loose ends.

 

[Sakonna]

I can't disagree that season 7 has more significant flaws then seasons 3 - 6 do... but at the same time, I can't stop myself from loving it's ridiculous go-for-brokeness. I always loved the variety of genres that DS9 dabbled in, and, though a lot of it didn't work, I appreciate the ballsiness of starting season 7 by dumping the remainder bin on the table and saying "now or never, it's time to do every crazy idea we put off the last 6 years!"

Maybe they should have simply made Leeta a main cast member somehow?

Or Senator Cretak! It would have been great to have a Romulan presence on the station, she was a interesting new female character who would have perfectly fit the larger story, it could have led to some interesting "In The Pale Moonlight" follow-up...

For me, the great tragedy of season 7 is that the last proper Garak episode is -- "Afterimage"! How much would I like to trade that one for a cat-and-mouse spy-game ep of Cretak v. Garak...

I do think there needed to be another Dax, though. A male would have been great, though I understand why that option was closed to them by no other women in the cast. It's interesting, increasingly as I revisit DS9, I connect them both as Dax more and more. Ezri doesn't feel like a different character to me in the way she once did -- instead now it just feels like 7 years of Dax. (Maybe it's the prequel recasts of Discovery, exercising my merge-these-two-actors-into-a-single-role muscles)

I think part of what makes me a bit bitter about this is how this ended up being not just the end of DS9 but largely the end of Alpha-quadrant Star-Trek from this era.

I always thought they did a particularly spectacular job of wrapping up the Klingon arc, the only specific plot thread (I think) that ran the full duration of the Alpha-Quadrant-Berman series. That's probably my favorite ep in the final arc.

That being said, I totally agree on "Emperor's New Cloak." Horrible, just agonizing.

On the other hand, I recognize "Covenant" is bad by most measures of taste, but I just think it's a blast. There's good ideas in there, buried in mountains of so-bad-it's-good nonsense (the baby!). I love it like I love a trashy Lifetime woman-stalked movie.

Voyager ended instantly when they got home so did nothing in regards to furthering any alpha-quadrant arcs

Well, thank heaven for small favors!

 

[Starflight]

Agreed on the Dukat stuff. The Dominion War almost kills the show for me starting with season six, but the Dukat stuff is truly the final blow. That said, I love season seven as an unintentional comedy - everything from the shot where Dukat turns around to reveal he's become a Bajoran all the way to "EMISSARY, THE BOOK!" is a rollercoaster ride of absolute nonsense.

Agreed on Vic Fontaine too. I really don't personally care for the whole 50s/60s club setting in any way, and you're right that constantly being dragged into the holosuite feels like being awkwardly and unwillingly subjected to the writers' personal indulgences.

The wider plot about the Pah-Wraiths and Sisko going apeshit and ascending to prophet-hood is really shockingly weak as well, to the point where I honestly can't believe it came from some of the same writers who gave us the much more nuanced and interesting view of the wormhole aliens in the first few seasons.

I actually don't mind Ezri at all though. She made almost no impression on me either way. Never felt like there was a huge amount of character to really connect with, but Nicole de Boer is more than a good enough actress to make sure that the character isn't actively boring or anything.

 

[SSOASS]

I really liked season 7, like every other season, some episodes were better than others, but all around really good.

I do agree about the mirror universe, season 7 was the worst, but they went there way too many times The saving part of that episode was Rom stating what was wrong with the whole premise.

Ezri was fine, I would have preferred Jadzia stayed, but some of the Worf stuff was good playing off of her.

I like Vic, the episode with Nog was just fantastic and given this or shakespeare or French bar .... I'll take Vic and old Vegas any time.

Dumar was a real positive the way the character evolved and the interplay with Wayun. I picture Cardassian kids going to Dumar High School ... the Galloping Guls probably have a good football team.

Dukat made sense to me, he was a meglomaniac who flat out went insane.

 

[Nakita Akita]

I'm currently re-watching DS9 and I love the entire show, but for me the show hits it's stride in Seasons 4-6. Then all of a sudden toward the very end of season 6 and much of Season 7 things just go downhill. There is still a lot of good in Season 7, but it feels almost like driving down a road with huge pot-holes in it after you just got off the freeway...

Ezri Dax- I did not like Jadzia being killed off, but introducing this new character for season 7 was just terrible. Here we are, the last season of the show, in the middle of the dominion war, where we still have tons of unfinished arcs from the first 6 seasons of DS9, and in some cases even arcs from TNG (Gowron, Worf, O'Brien, etc) that need to be wrapped up. Instead, part of every episode (Ezri was in EVERY season 7 episode) and in several cases entire episodes were wasted introducing this useless, obnoxious, annoying new character. I would have loved to have simply given other cast members like Martok, Garak, Nog, Rom or others more screen time instead. I get that they needed a certain minimum of female cast members though - only legit reason I've ever heard. Maybe they should have simply made Leeta a main cast member somehow? Could not have been any worse than Ezri.

Vic Fontaine- WTF? I don't know about you, but it's pretty lame to watch Sci-Fi about a 24th century space-station in the middle of an intergalactic war only to be forced to constantly indulge what was obviously one of the writers obsessions with early-mid 20th century Jazz music. Every time he is on screen we have to sit through what seems like an entire 5 minute song, I guess because he is so amazing.

Kira and Odo- This just never came off as natural for me, and in most cases sort of made me cringe. I think part of it is because Odo always gave me that humble grandpa-style vibe, and that isn't the sort of character that works well for making-out on-screen all the time. Maybe it's also because the actors never really thought it was a good idea either and you could always sort of tell via their acting.

Dukat religion- I liked Dukat a lot more earlier in the series when he was a more complex character that even had a bit of good in him. When he devolved into a much more simplistic, almost stereotypical, evil religious bad guy, the character just wasn't as interesting anymore IMO.

Mirror universe- This was only one episode thankfully, but one too many. I hate the entire mirror universe concept, particularly the way they shoe-horn in "mirror-universe" things from the regular universe regardless of any logic. The mirror-universe certainly is not unique to season 7, but it is another wasted episode that should have been used to help wrap up the series.


Overall I still enjoy Season 7, and I love DS9. I think part of what makes me a bit bitter about this is how this ended up being not just the end of DS9 but largely the end of Alpha-quadrant Star-Trek from this era. Voyager ended instantly when they got home so did nothing in regards to furthering any alpha-quadrant arcs (except for Barclay I guess?). Star-Trek: Nemesis Sucked to the point of ending the franchise (until the "Reboot" obviously) even if it did provide a tiny bit of resolution for some of TNG-related arcs.

I totally agree with everything you say.
I never thought about it but they SHOULD have given Leeta a bigger role and forgone Ezri. Mainly though just no Ezri. Hated that part, I never saw any use for her whatsoever.
I also hate all mirror universe episodes as well as Vic Fontain.
I felt there was so much more they could have done with dialogue while instead, we have to listen to some guy 'sing'.

 

[GotNoRice]

I actually don't mind Ezri at all though. She made almost no impression on me either way. Never felt like there was a huge amount of character to really connect with, but Nicole de Boer is more than a good enough actress to make sure that the character isn't actively boring or anything.

Yeah, I don't really fault the actress at all. Maybe if the character had been introduced in an earlier season somehow it would have been different. The last season of a show is just not the right time to bring on a new character and then waste a bunch of time/episodes introducing them.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Yeah, I don't really fault the actress at all. Maybe if the character had been introduced in an earlier season somehow it would have been different. The last season of a show is just not the right time to bring on a new character and then waste a bunch of time/episodes introducing them.

And I guess I had a problem with
Why did she show up there?
I guess I could see her finding Sisko at his dad's place and stating for a while, but why did she go to DS9?
In earlier episodes Jadzia had even said that it was sort of wrong to go back to past family/ relationships. Spouses and even the symbiont's children. So why did she go to DS9? It was dumb really. She had a duty station previously, it seems like she would have had an easier time adjusting without dealing with all of her past relationships too.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

In earlier episodes Jadzia had even said that it was sort of wrong to go back to past family/ relationships. Spouses and even the symbiont's children. So why did she go to DS9? It was dumb really. She had a duty station previously, it seems like she would have had an easier time adjusting without dealing with all of her past relationships too.

I feel it was explained adequately. Ezri Tegan was not part of the symbiont program, and thus not bound by the same strictures of other joined Trill, like Jadzia. Indeed, it was said that at this point, there really wasn't much that could be done to normalize Ezri's experiences once she was joined. She was on her own to follow the best path she could.

 

[Nakita Akita]

I feel it was explained adequately. Ezri Tegan was not part of the symbiont program, and thus not bound by the same strictures of other joined Trill, like Jadzia. Indeed, it was said that at this point, there really wasn't much that could be done to normalize Ezri's experiences once she was joined. She was on her own to follow the best path she could.

I think I would accept that when they stuck the Trill inside Riker on TNG but that seemed strange and irresponsible and contrived actually for the show so that Jadzia wouldn't really be gone.

I think maybe having her visit Sisko would have been good, and then her going away back for training on Trill or back to the ship where she was a junior counsellor.
I really didn't care enough about her to have to see that she's a head case because of her mother.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I think I would accept that when they stuck the Trill inside Riker on TNG but that seemed strange and irresponsible and contrived actually for the show so that Jadzia wouldn't really be gone.

I think maybe having her visit Sisko would have been good, and then her going away back for training on Trill or back to the ship where she was a junior counsellor.
I really didn't care enough about her to have to see that she's a head case because of her mother.

I won't defend everything about her characterization, or indeed that we needed more Dax story following TF's departure. Others will argue Chekov's gun: you must pull the trigger on the symbiont ability to make it useful.

That said, NdB was a better actress than TF, and I find it telling that they actually went back to writing stories focused on Trill being in the last season. I also think that she allowed the opportunity to complate divorce from a sideways perspective via Ezri s relationship with Worf, something we don't really get in the rest of Star Trek.

 

[Nakita Akita]

I won't defend everything about her characterization, or indeed that we needed more Dax story following TF's departure. Others will argue Chekov's gun: you must pull the trigger on the symbiont ability to make it useful.

That said, NdB was a better actress than TF, and I find it telling that they actually went back to writing stories focused on Trill being in the last season. I also think that she allowed the opportunity to complate divorce from a sideways perspective via Ezri s relationship with Worf, something we don't really get in the rest of Star Trek.

I loved the actress. She did a great job, but the whole I'm Jadzia, Curzon, Tobin And the crazy murderer

As above, which I never would have thought of, Leeta being given a larger role?
Or as above the Romulan maybe, or possibly a totally different person?

I don't write for TV or anything else for that matter but I think it could have been fine better.

 

[Lynx]

I'm currently re-watching DS9 and I love the entire show, but for me the show hits it's stride in Seasons 4-6. Then all of a sudden toward the very end of season 6 and much of Season 7 things just go downhill. There is still a lot of good in Season 7, but it feels almost like driving down a road with huge pot-holes in it after you just got off the freeway...

Ezri Dax- I did not like Jadzia being killed off, but introducing this new character for season 7 was just terrible. Here we are, the last season of the show, in the middle of the dominion war, where we still have tons of unfinished arcs from the first 6 seasons of DS9, and in some cases even arcs from TNG (Gowron, Worf, O'Brien, etc) that need to be wrapped up. Instead, part of every episode (Ezri was in EVERY season 7 episode) and in several cases entire episodes were wasted introducing this useless, obnoxious, annoying new character. I would have loved to have simply given other cast members like Martok, Garak, Nog, Rom or others more screen time instead. I get that they needed a certain minimum of female cast members though - only legit reason I've ever heard. Maybe they should have simply made Leeta a main cast member somehow? Could not have been any worse than Ezri.

Vic Fontaine- WTF? I don't know about you, but it's pretty lame to watch Sci-Fi about a 24th century space-station in the middle of an intergalactic war only to be forced to constantly indulge what was obviously one of the writers obsessions with early-mid 20th century Jazz music. Every time he is on screen we have to sit through what seems like an entire 5 minute song, I guess because he is so amazing.

Kira and Odo- This just never came off as natural for me, and in most cases sort of made me cringe. I think part of it is because Odo always gave me that humble grandpa-style vibe, and that isn't the sort of character that works well for making-out on-screen all the time. Maybe it's also because the actors never really thought it was a good idea either and you could always sort of tell via their acting.

Dukat religion- I liked Dukat a lot more earlier in the series when he was a more complex character that even had a bit of good in him. When he devolved into a much more simplistic, almost stereotypical, evil religious bad guy, the character just wasn't as interesting anymore IMO.

Mirror universe- This was only one episode thankfully, but one too many. I hate the entire mirror universe concept, particularly the way they shoe-horn in "mirror-universe" things from the regular universe regardless of any logic. The mirror-universe certainly is not unique to season 7, but it is another wasted episode that should have been used to help wrap up the series.


Overall I still enjoy Season 7, and I love DS9. I think part of what makes me a bit bitter about this is how this ended up being not just the end of DS9 but largely the end of Alpha-quadrant Star-Trek from this era. Voyager ended instantly when they got home so did nothing in regards to furthering any alpha-quadrant arcs (except for Barclay I guess?). Star-Trek: Nemesis Sucked to the point of ending the franchise (until the "Reboot" obviously) even if it did provide a tiny bit of resolution for some of TNG-related arcs.

I actually like season 7. A lot of good episodes. Much better than I expected when I finally got the chance to see the whole season.

As for your statements, I agree on some and disagree on some

Jadzia or Ezri: Disagree.

I agree that Jadzia shouldn't have been killed off but I disagree abbout your opinion of Ezri. I find Ezri a great character and her presence in every episode doesn't annoy me. At least they didn't show her up like a sex symbol as they did with Seven Of Nine in Voyager.
But Jadzia shouldn't have been killed off. She should have been sent to some other posting, maybe on the Enterprise and showed up in the last episode. Ezri should have been Jadzias sister or some relative but not a Dax.

Vic Fontaine: Disagree

I actually like Vic Fontaine. He's a nice character and I actually think that he was very important during the years of war. The crew needed to relax and he was perfect for that. He was also great when he helped Nog to overcom losing his leg. Besides that, I liked the episodews with Vic just because it was necessary with some lighter episodes here and there in season 6 and 7, otherwise it could have been too much doom-and-gloom.

Odo/Kira: Disagree

I was never bothered by the Odo/Kira romance. In fact, that was one of the few romances that worked for me in Star Trek.

Dukat religion: Agree

I never understood or liked that Pai-Wrath thing. Too much demonology mumbo-jumbo. Dukat was great as a Cardassian villain and shouldn't have been more than that. However, I liked the Dukat/Winn connection. An excellent villain couple, just like Culluh/Seska in Voyager.

Mirror universe: Agree

I was never a fan of the "mirror universe" concept. For me, all mirror universe episodes felt like a wasted evening with our favorites acting weird and nothing more. It worked for one episode in TOS and it would have been enough with one episode in the whole DS9. Unfortunately, the "mirror universe" concept was overdone in DS9 and it became downright boring.

What I really agree on is your statement at the end about the season being the end of DS9 but largely the end of Alpha-quadrant Star-Trek from this era. For me Voyager ended when Kes was dumped and Seven took over. The movie Nemesis sucked, Star Trek Enterprise sucked and I won't even go into the NuTrek movies and the downright horrible Discovery which makes even Star Trek Enterprise look like an enjoyable masterpiece.

No, I'm stuck in the 24th century and fortunately I have All seasons of TNG, DS9 and the first three seasons of Voyager to watch so after finishing a re-launch of any of those series, I can simply start another relaunch of another. Right now I'm into season 4 of DS9.

So I guess that when I watch it, the Wormhole prophets visits me and says. "You exist here.".
And then I stand up and exclaim: "I exist here, this is my time and here I stay!

 

[Seven of Five]

Ezri was my my biggest problem in season seven. I think when I first watched it, I just missed Jadzia so much. I couldn't cope with this new Dax that wasn't as interesting to me, and she had so many storylines that she just annoyed me. I cope with her better these days when I do a rewatch, though I usually get fed up around Prodigal Daughter/The Emporer's New Cloak/Field of Fire. Why were they all in a row?

I wish that she had just been a recurring character, as opposed to main cast. Obviously the main problem then would be who would become a new main cast-member? I liked someone up-thread mentioning Cretak, now that would have been perfect. It seems that after the Romulans threw their stock in with the Federation and the Klingons, they were kind of forgotten about. Well, aside from Cretak in the first two episodes and Inter Ama Enim Silent Leges. Maybe one Romulan could have heard about the duplicity there.

I don't mind Vic Fontaine, and I liked both Take Me Out To The Holosuite, and Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang, so I guess that's in my favour in S7. I know they're both fluff pieces but they're so much fun. The holosuite heist was, well in my eyes, the perfect way to have a breather before the hard stuff of the final chapter kicked in.

I wasn't particularly sure about Kira/Odo at first - the actors had chemistry, but the unrequited love on Odo's part was an essential part of his character for so long. By the time Chimera rolled around though, I was sold. By their final scenes in WYLB, I was a blubbering wreck.

I think the final chapter on the whole isn't in need of too much change. An episode less of Ezri/Worf tension would help. Extreme Measures was the big misstep here ii=n wrapping up S31. Also in What You Leave Behind, my biggest misgivings were the pacing in the Fire Caves, where time seemed to come to a standstill until Sisko turned up.

Bajor was still out of the Federation by the series' end. Obviously it stayed out to be safe from the Dominion when they came knocking at DS9 in season five. Still, just a line about Bajor making a fresh application by Kira in the final scene would have been nice.

 

[Takeru]

I don't think it's any better than TNG's constant classical concerts (to be clear I like Classical Music and Jazz, although not the crooner thing).

But TNG didn't built a concert hall set with a conductor who was a recurring character. Vic's bar as a location was redundant, they already had Quark's so it really was just an excuse to do some jazz because it wasn't necessary as a hangout for the crew.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

But TNG didn't built a concert hall set with a conductor who was a recurring character. Vic's bar as a location was redundant, they already had Quark's so it really was just an excuse to do some jazz because it wasn't necessary as a hangout for the crew.

That makes no sense. DS9 was not the Enterprise. The economy of design on TNG was fundamentally different from the opulence of the Promenade. There was a replimat (not to mention the replicators in all the quarters), but there was also Quark's, the Klingon restaurant, street vendords, and probably a dozen restaurants that were only mentioned in passing. The Promenade could have had its own concert hall, perhaps one which could feature holographic performers. The only thing peculiar about Vic's was that it was internal to Quark's restaurant.

 

[Nakita Akita]

That makes no sense. DS9 was not the Enterprise. The economy of design on TNG was fundamentally different from the opulence of the Promenade. There was a replimat (not to mention the replicators in all the quarters), but there was also Quark's, the Klingon restaurant, street vendords, and probably a dozen restaurants that were only mentioned in passing. The Promenade could have had its own concert hall, perhaps one which could feature holographic performers. The only thing peculiar about Vic's was that it was internal to Quark's restaurant.

There was a lot that was more peculiar than Vic's being inside Quark's.
That whole thing was peculiar.
Remember the sentient hologram on the Enterprise? Lots of problems with that.
What happens to Vic when Quark wants to retire and they want to demolish the holosuites?