Alternate Constitution class Engineering

[Shark]

Taking both movies into account, where exactly is engineering on the alternate Enterprise from Star Trek 2009? Where is the 'brewery' engineering and how many warp cores does that ship have?

I suspect it will be like trying to ascertain the size of it.

One could say that it had the core in it already from STID and what we saw being ejected in ST:2009 were the Antimatter pods or some other part of the system. It could also be suggested that the ship underwent a refit between the movies. I had thought that the brewery was just on the other side of the shuttle bay, though in STID it appears that the new warp core is located there as Kirk follows Scotty to it directly from the shuttle bay.

*Although it is understood that dramatic license is the prime determiner of existence of and location of anything in Trek.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I just assume the engine room resembles the National Ignition Facility in more ways than one.

 

[Timo]

Looks good. And reaching just about any part of that part quickly by running seems heavily supported by the movies themselves. Not only do we see it happen, we also learn that the turbolifts are both lightning-fast and walk-through (say, getting from the bridge to the big shaft with those catwalks and unknown purpose happens by walking through the turbolift doors which, when opening, reveal a line of sight between the facilities).

Perhaps those are less elevator cabins and more internal teleportation platforms? Choose your destination and you see it as an image through the doors...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mytran]

Teleporter platforms would explain the lightning fast Spock ride in Trek09!

I like that 3d view of the facility, or is it actually something from a Trek cutaway?

 

[T'Girl]

Teleporter platforms would explain the lightning fast Spock ride in Trek09

I took that to be showing Spock lost in thought, and not that the turbo lift was really fast.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Teleporter platforms would explain the lightning fast Spock ride in Trek09!

No need for anything that outlandish, really. If turbolifts have their own inertial dampeners, then they should actually be able to go really fast.

 

[Shark]

Not only do we see it happen, we also learn that the turbolifts are both lightning-fast and walk-through (say, getting from the bridge to the big shaft with those catwalks and unknown purpose happens by walking through the turbolift doors which, when opening, reveal a line of sight between the facilities).

Perhaps those are less elevator cabins and more internal teleportation platforms? Choose your destination and you see it as an image through the doors...

Timo Saloniemi

The turbolift ride took a bit longer for Kirk and Uhura in STID. In fact it took just long enough for their conversation to be completed, so it would seem they move at the speed of plot.

 

[Shark]

I just assume the engine room resembles the National Ignition Facility in more ways than one.

Thanks for sharing that, but it should be noted that image doesn't show the actual brewery, just the "Warp Core".

 

[WarpFactorZ]

I just assume the engine room resembles the National Ignition Facility in more ways than one.

Thanks for sharing that, but it should be noted that image doesn't show the actual brewery, just the "Warp Core".

The cutaway is an actual representation of the National Ignition Facility at Livermore Labs. The "brewery" (not the actual filming location) and "warp core" are indicated by black lettering and black arrows -- not the best choice for a dark blue background, but a nice diagram anyway...

 

[Shark]

I just assume the engine room resembles the National Ignition Facility in more ways than one.

Thanks for sharing that, but it should be noted that image doesn't show the actual brewery, just the "Warp Core".

The cutaway is an actual representation of the National Ignition Facility at Livermore Labs. The "brewery" (not the actual filming location) and "warp core" are indicated by black lettering and black arrows -- not the best choice for a dark blue background, but a nice diagram anyway...

I'm aware of what the picture is and what it represents. It's still doesn't represent both locations; in other words, it's supposition.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I'm aware of what the picture is and what it represents. It's still doesn't represent both locations; in other words, it's supposition.

... which is the entire point of this thread, dude.

We're speculating on what the engineering section of the Enterprise looks like and how it's probably arranged. Well, the NIF facility is a massive complex of machinery that all feeds into the main fusion chamber that was used to depict the "warp core" in the film. It stands to reason Enterprise's own propulsion machinery is arranged approximately the same way: with a massive sprawl of machinery, waveguides and plumbing that all converge, ultimately, on the warp core. That some of this machinery was shown ejected into space and detonated in the previous film kind of supports that idea.

 

[Shark]

I'm aware of what the picture is and what it represents. It's still doesn't represent both locations; in other words, it's supposition.

... which is the entire point of this thread, dude.

We're speculating on what the engineering section of the Enterprise looks like and how it's probably arranged. Well, the NIF facility is a massive complex of machinery that all feeds into the main fusion chamber that was used to depict the "warp core" in the film. It stands to reason Enterprise's own propulsion machinery is arranged approximately the same way: with a massive sprawl of machinery, waveguides and plumbing that all converge, ultimately, on the warp core. That some of this machinery was shown ejected into space and detonated in the previous film kind of supports that idea.

No, it doesn't stand to reason that your diagram should represent something it doesn't. Beyond your own ego, that is.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Taking both movies into account, where exactly is engineering on the alternate Enterprise from Star Trek 2009? Where is the 'brewery' engineering and how many warp cores does that ship have?

I suspect it will be like trying to ascertain the size of it.

One could say that it had the core in it already from STID and what we saw being ejected in ST:2009 were the Antimatter pods or some other part of the system. It could also be suggested that the ship underwent a refit between the movies. I had thought that the brewery was just on the other side of the shuttle bay, though in STID it appears that the new warp core is located there as Kirk follows Scotty to it directly from the shuttle bay.

*Although it is understood that dramatic license is the prime determiner of existence of and location of anything in Trek.

This cutaway by Michael Wiley should answer your questions

 

[MantaBase]

The cutaway is an actual representation of the National Ignition Facility at Livermore Labs. The "brewery" (not the actual filming location) and "warp core" are indicated by black lettering and black arrows -- not the best choice for a dark blue background, but a nice diagram anyway...

Just so I represent for my former colleagues, you mean Lawrence Livermore National Labs? There are 2 national labs in Livermore - and the other one I worked at. Less well known, but just as, if not more, important. I just guess it was LLNL, since I doubt much filming is allowed at the other one. And I am impressed LLNL opened it's doors for filming as well!

 

[Shark]

Taking both movies into account, where exactly is engineering on the alternate Enterprise from Star Trek 2009? Where is the 'brewery' engineering and how many warp cores does that ship have?

I suspect it will be like trying to ascertain the size of it.

One could say that it had the core in it already from STID and what we saw being ejected in ST:2009 were the Antimatter pods or some other part of the system. It could also be suggested that the ship underwent a refit between the movies. I had thought that the brewery was just on the other side of the shuttle bay, though in STID it appears that the new warp core is located there as Kirk follows Scotty to it directly from the shuttle bay.

*Although it is understood that dramatic license is the prime determiner of existence of and location of anything in Trek.

This cutaway by Michael Wiley should answer your questions

Hey, that's really nice, thanks for sharing that!

 

[Crazy Eddie]

No, it doesn't stand to reason that your diagram should represent something it doesn't.

The diagram represents the layout of the shooting set for the warp core. This means the engineering complex will resemble the shooting set in various ways. The only question is, to what extent?

Taking both movies into account, where exactly is engineering on the alternate Enterprise from Star Trek 2009? Where is the 'brewery' engineering and how many warp cores does that ship have?

I suspect it will be like trying to ascertain the size of it.

One could say that it had the core in it already from STID and what we saw being ejected in ST:2009 were the Antimatter pods or some other part of the system. It could also be suggested that the ship underwent a refit between the movies. I had thought that the brewery was just on the other side of the shuttle bay, though in STID it appears that the new warp core is located there as Kirk follows Scotty to it directly from the shuttle bay.

*Although it is understood that dramatic license is the prime determiner of existence of and location of anything in Trek.

This cutaway by Michael Wiley should answer your questions

This fits as a rough positional thing, and the idea that the warp core is physically connected to the impulse drive is a DAMN good one since it would explain so much.

I wonder about the deck structure though. I think the Enterprise probably has a similar deck structure as its TMP era counterpart, it's just that each deck has probably multiple levels (upper and lower level on each) to fit high bays, equipment spaces, jeffries tubes, turboshafts, inertial dampeners, gravity generators, structural supports, etc etc. Just seems incongruous to me for the "habitable" sections of the ship to be so cramped and tight-packed while the "working" sections are so open and roomy.

Also:

 

[Timo]

I for one welcome the clear division to working and living spaces: there's a "natural" scale for the latter, and the absence of prior visual references to the former could be simply because we only saw the control booths which would bow to the "natural" scale.

There's certainly room in the TOS ship for a brewery-type engineering (to satisfy the two plots where the ability to hide in there forever is a plot point); perhaps the replacing of that with more modern and much more compact power systems is what created that cargo hold of rather useless dimensions?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Richard Baker]

One of the design concepts not used for the new Enterprise Engineering section was to have it partially uninhabitable. Dangerous equipment was kept separate and monitored by clear access walkway-tubes snaking through the area instead of having everything a shirtsleeve environment.
There were some great engineering sketches until they chose to go with the brewery.

 

[Shark]

No, it doesn't stand to reason that your diagram should represent something it doesn't.

The diagram represents the layout of the shooting set for the warp core. The only question is, to what extent?

Yes it represents only the Warp core because that's all they shot. It does not, however, represent the "Brewery" section as that was shot at a separate location. It's still a good diagram, it just represents the one location. And that's all I was pointing out in the first place.

The only question is, to what extent?

To the extent of what we see.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

No, it doesn't stand to reason that your diagram should represent something it doesn't.

The diagram represents the layout of the shooting set for the warp core. The only question is, to what extent?

Yes it represents only the Warp core because that's all they shot.

In addition to the walls around it, the cooling lines to and from it, and the complicated wave guide assembly on all three levels of the reaction chamber (all three of which appear in the film). The real-world construct immediately outside the camera's field of view, those waveguides connect to a vast array of beam generation hardware that pumps incomprehensible amounts of power into a set of laser beams that are finally directed into the reaction chamber.

Consider, then, that the Reboot warp core is essentially the same device running in reverse: matter and antimatter are annihilated, energy is collected from the core and slowly "stepped down" to useable forms by the machinery outside of it.

So if you removed the big metal vats from the "brewery" section (whatever they are; coolant tanks? antimatter bottles? Slush hydrogen?) the space BENEATH them probably looks something like this:

Consider that we've never seen what a 22nd or 23rd century EPS tap even looks like (not sure we've seen the 24th century version either).

On the other hand, the original TOS engine room used to have all that piping behind the Angst Fence:

And the matter-antimatter reaction chamber was a much smaller device built into the floor in the middle of the room.

We accept, as a matter of canon, that the Enterprise's warp core compartment bears an uncanny resemblance to the National Ignition Facility's reaction chamber. It's not much of a stretch to think the REST of the engineering section does too, especially since the TOS engine room wasn't that far off from it either.