"you broke your little ships"

[Timo]

The character has had an entire episode, a movie devoted to him, and was mentioned in seemingly every other episode of ENT.

Which fits rather well with the idea that only humans care about him at all. ENT was a human-only show, with Cochrane a very recent figure in history; ST:FC took place on Earth, with our token aliens in the sidelines.

Meanwhile we've never even heard of who invented Warp Drive for any of the other founding races of the Federation.

...Probably because we have never listened to the other founding races of the Federation.

The only one with any actual screen time are the Vulcans, who did have warp before Cochrane invented it (or at least they employed warp technicians back in 1957 already). ENT missed out on a chance to have the Andorians contribute something to this...

You speak of 'patriotic humans' as though they are in the minority.

Which they probably are. It's just that Star Trek is about patriotic humans and little else.

Couldn't Spock, T'Pol, or Tuvok have once mentioned what Vulcan invented Warp Drive in antiquity?

Perhaps. But they had far bigger achievements to be proud of: every other sentence from them was "Surak this" or "Surak that".

Just goes to show how pitiful us Earthlings were, having to take whatever pride we could from our local inventor of one of the most common technologies in the galaxy.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Satyrquaze]

We're a bit into the urban myth territory here. How often do we really hear Zephram Cochrane praised for inventing warp drive? And how many of those occasions involve somebody else besides patriotic Earth humans?

Just goes to show how pitiful us Earthlings were, having to take whatever pride we could from our local inventor of one of the most common technologies in the galaxy.

Timo Saloniemi

So, we agree humans prasied Cochrane adnausem and the various aliens didn't mention their own inventors of Warp often enough.

You say Star Trek is mainly about patriotic humans, which is weird because I could have sworn it was about humans working with aliens toward the betterment of all and IDIC and all that. The fact that it semms remotely human centrist is because of the limitations of make-up and special effects.

As you pointed out, the Vulcans were in Earth's solar system as early as 1957. We also know they were building monasteries quite close to Andoria as early as the 9th century BC.

We don't know how early the Andorians had Warp technology, but as of 2152 they had a fleet of warp capable warships which were "considerably faster" than Starfleet's one starship.

So, I'm confused about what in my comments was specifically in the urban myth territory. I listed 9 seperate examples (I'm sure someone could list each episode of ENT where he was practically deified by Archer, Trip, or someone else) of Zephram Cochrane being praised openly for something nearly every single other species in Trek has done. It's not like we've only followed what the human race has done over the 700+ episodes and 11 movies.

You seem to be harping on the idea that its okay since they've rarely showed an alien being impressed by Cochrane's feat. I'm saying other than the Vulcans who showed up in Bozeman, MT in 2063, they have no reason to be impressed with his feat. I'm saying its a crime that none of the other species who very probably invented warp drive well before humans have never gotten any mention of who or when or why they invented Warp Drive.

Is it still an 'invention' if someone did it before you? How much of Cochrane's notes on hypothetical propulsion could have come from Henry Starling's work?

Plus, what does the hypothetical Vulcan who is serving USS Cochrane think about the subject of who invented Warp Drive?

 

[Timo]

I could have sworn it was about humans working with aliens toward the betterment of all and IDIC and all that.

Naah. Straightforward military procedurals with outer space aliens for villains and with human heroes who are so superior they can afford to show mercy at the end of the fourth act, that's what Trek has always been. Except perhaps DS9, which began as the outcast riffraff of space huddling together in egalitarian harmony, but still ended up with all of them adopting human values.

IDIC? A marketing trick for brooches.

So, I'm confused about what in my comments was specifically in the urban myth territory.

Your comments? Nothing, I guess.

The urban myth part is the idea that Cochrane would have fame beyond mankind. Your examples didn't really comment on that one way or another. And I still can't think of a single example of a nonhuman finding Cochrane cool.

It's not like we've only followed what the human race has done over the 700+ episodes and 11 movies.

Well, no. It's like we're only done that for 717 of the eps and 11 of the movies.

Alien inventors are fine and well, but they just plain don't matter to humans. Say, T'Plana-Hath discovered some amazingly clever platitudes, but we aren't impressed because they don't go zoom. When has any personality or element of an alien culture been of any interest to our human heroes? Aliens are foils and conquests, even deliberately so: our weaknesses and evils have been outsourced to people in heavy makeup. Outsourcing our inventive spirit would only be done if it were to be despised - as, say, with the alien Oppenheimer in "Jetrel" or the alien Mengele in "Nothing Human".

Plus, what does the hypothetical Vulcan who is serving USS Cochrane think about the subject of who invented Warp Drive?

Can you really imagine a Vulcan speaking his mind?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Satyrquaze]

^ Your stance on it seems a tad pessimistic. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Outsourcing our inventive spirit would only be done if it were to be despised - as, say, with the alien Oppenheimer in "Jetrel" or the alien Mengele in "Nothing Human".

Don't forget: alien Gandhi as Surak or alien Jesus as Kahless.