Which is better, The Orville or Lower Decks?

[Weyoun 251]

I'm pretty sure we all knew the characters would somehow get out of the situation in a (hopefully) clever and dramatic way and were therefore excited to see how - even way back in the 90's.

Think age and location may twist that.

I grew up as a kid through it but I know my mum was equally sold. Maybe UK was less informed or we as a family we less engaged but I distinctly remember friend being as stupid as I was in terms of knowing about the greater plans

 

[The Wormhole]

Think age and location may twist that.

Age maybe. These days, I can see most plot twists coming a mile away, even in well written shows. As a kid though, I was always taken in by the twists. Hell, I remember watching TNG Firstborn with my uncle the day it originally aired. My uncle kept saying throughout the episode that K'mtar was a grown-up Alexander. When that was revealed to be so, I asked my uncle how he knew, he explained that K'mtar and Alexander had the same forehead ridges, adding "you have to pay attention to these details. If you do, you'll learn these things before the characters."

These days when discussing the shows or movies we've seen, one of our points of discussion is how long it took us to figure out the twists or revelations.

 

[Weyoun 251]

Age maybe. These days, I can see most plot twists coming a mile away, even in well written shows. As a kid though, I was always taken in by the twists. Hell, I remember watching TNG Firstborn with my uncle the day it originally aired. My uncle kept saying throughout the episode that K'mtar was a grown-up Alexander. When that was revealed to be so, I asked my uncle how he knew, he explained that K'mtar and Alexander had the same forehead ridges, adding "you have to pay attention to these details. If you do, you'll learn these things before the characters."

These days when discussing the shows or movies we've seen, one of our points of discussion is how long it took us to figure out the twists or revelations.

A very good point about looking for the details.

I do think that is something that people in general are more attuned to now - with online discussion on Twitter and the like everyone and their dog can pause, rewind, and discuss at length whereas you had to make an effort in the 90s so it was the preserve of more hardcore fans of either TV and Cinema or of a particular franchise.

I've recently been doing a Voyager rewatch (alongside listening to The Delta Flyers pod) and in Worst Case Scenario I can't believe how much is given away that it is a simulation before the reveal - Chakotay calling B'elanna ensign for one, talking about Tuvok giving her trouble (no sign of that in any episode recently) and a few other things that now I've watched and moved on have escaped my memory.

I would say though that it is only since joining this board that I have begun to really look for these points - prior to this (in part because I don't do Social Media) I wouldn't have anyone to speak with about things so I just watched for the fun and took it as it came.

With the newer shows I still do that (and save the true analysis for rewatches) but with the older ones I am spotting the clues more easily now - helped by the fact that I know what is coming

 

[Mrs. Silvercrest]

I really like them both.
Just watched the 2nd season of Lower Decks. So fun.
I haven't gotten a chance to see the 3rd season of The Orville yet.
But I can't wait. They are my happy shows!

 

[drt]

I'm pretty sure we all knew the characters would somehow get out of the situation in a (hopefully) clever and dramatic way and were therefore excited to see how - even way back in the 90's.

I think the only time there was a question mark was for "Best of Both Worlds", as there were rumors swirling around that Stewart might be leaving the show.

 

[Qonundrum]

Both blend humor with serious plotting. Both regurgitate old ideas while adding new. Both have impressed. Both I love. Both I nitpick and whine about. Cuz I'm a fanboi.

But LD has had a greater consistency of, and solid nature of scripting with ideas and human nature since day one that counterbalance if not eclipse Orville's best ideas - which are still comparatively derivative. LD has more originality with "second contact" and other sci-fi ideas and human nature that withstand that extra critique.

Indeed, FOX actually had a good point - especially if Seth is saying he's wanted the show to be serious from the start but had to throw in the comedy - in which to mix humor with the seriousness, because I've returned to season one the most, along with the first half of season two, before the copy/paste, lax plotting, and scene padding became too obnoxious. This is saying a lot, given how "Sliders", "Dollhouse", and "Firefly" were handled - despite their being an innovator and taking more risks in the genre of sci-fi when all is said and done. The creators knew what they were doing; changes may have gotten a few more episodes on the air but the results were largely devoid of what made them decent to begin with. But I digress.

IMHO.

YMMV.

 

[Jedi Marso]

The Orville keeps getting better and better as it goes on. S3 in particular has been more like 10 mini Orville movies than episodic TV. The length of the episodes has allowed each one to fully breathe, and the humor has been knocked way back to a tolerable level that doesn't go full-silly or jerk you out of the narrative. Production effects are stellar, cast is stellar, and it tackles the social issues in an in-your-face way that Trek has always been more PC about. The new network has let McFarlane off the leash, and he's knocking it out of the park.

Orville for the win, in my book.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I don't know why it has to be a competition. I like them both along with hundreds of other things.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't know why it has to be a competition. I like them both along with hundreds of other things.

Honestly, for me, they are in two completely different categories as far as shows. ORVILLE started life as s possible comedy but is far and away not that funny, and more interested in drama. Lower Decks knows what it is and leans in to it, having fun at every turn.

There's no competition for me.

 

[Qonundrum]

Honestly, for me, they are in two completely different categories as far as shows. ORVILLE started life as s possible comedy but is far and away not that funny, and more interested in drama. Lower Decks knows what it is and leans in to it, having fun at every turn.

There's no competition for me.

^^this

LD has been consistent since day one and has balanced all of its facets beautifully.

IMHO, Orville started out as a decent mix - allegedly with FOX telling Seth there had to be comedy (which, IMHO seemed to work surprisingly well and I pretty much loved the show despite being a latecomer (season 2)). The show did become more serious, to the point it was forgetting about the comedy... others liked it more as a result, but I was starting to phase out... Season 3 clips were hit or miss, some amazing, but some awful... with one scene involving Isaac being so cliche even I'm feeling embarrassed while watching it. The show backtracking with the season 3 opener, since season 2 had already addressed the issue and yet no crewmember did anything for four episodes, yet having the time to piddle with a smartphone - something that would not last 400 years before breaking down naturally, anyway - and the crew act no differently at all when ostensibly mimicking 21st centuryisms while in the 25th century --

Spoiler: orville season 3 scene recap

the clips I saw of season 3 was even worse. The new character, who reminded me more of Cousin Oliver TV trope, out of nowhere, also later has to go down to 21st century Earth and team up with Isaac* and swears up a storm, complete with JC reference, and I think it's all just a pallid copy of 90210 as her regular time gripes aren't different enough to buy into... Other highlights include the moment with Isaac getting hit by arrows a la Indiana Jones, complete with trite muzak, Kaylon Prime/One acting way too angry before Isaac retorts that a marriage is not slavery, the number of times the Kaylon, programmed to exterminate all things biological because they're biological, engage in threats of "surrender or die" is beyond apocryphal, etc... I'd seen good clips as well, but if nothing else the Kaylon arc was the biggest joke season 3 put out.

* with the show acting as if he can be "healed"; they have no clue how to fabricate Kaylon circuits and even in "Identity pt 2" it was incredibly awful scripting when they "healed" him then too. That episode is the shark jumper. Not pt 1, which was largely great. 2 is the definitive point when the downward qualitative trend begins.

 

[Qonundrum]

I don't know why it has to be a competition. I like them both along with hundreds of other things.

Seems inevitable. Even Geordi had a TNG episode where he received a report from his friend on the other starship who got his engines to 99.5% efficiency or whatever and that spazzed Geordi enough to strive for 99.6 or 99.51 or whatever. Wasn't a major plot element, though...

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Honestly, for me, they are in two completely different categories as far as shows. ORVILLE started life as s possible comedy but is far and away not that funny, and more interested in drama. Lower Decks knows what it is and leans in to it, having fun at every turn.

There's no competition for me.

If I had to save one from a burning building, it'd be LDS. The Orville is alright, but it's not very funny. It has been at points, but it isn't anymore.

 

[fireproof78]

If I had to save one from a burning building, it'd be LDS. The Orville is alright, but it's not very funny. It has been at points, but it isn't anymore.

Indeed, and not to belabor the point but if someone is going to sell me on the Orville at this point it better be a solid sell on the merits of Orville itself, and not as a comedy or as Star Trek. Lower Decks is at least honest about what it is.

 

[Sci]

Indeed, and not to belabor the point but if someone is going to sell me on the Orville at this point it better be a solid sell on the merits of Orville itself, and not as a comedy or as Star Trek. Lower Decks is at least honest about what it is.

Honestly at this point, The Orville isn't even a comedy anymore. It's a straight-up TNG pastiche.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Honestly at this point, The Orville isn't even a comedy anymore. It's a straight-up TNG pastiche.

I think more like homage. It's a straight up sci-fi show with the odd gag in Season 3, but it shows it's love for it's roots.

I've enjoyed the bits I've seen of ORV Season 3, but none of the characters have ever really clicked with me. It's a show to pass an hour with and on the whole quite forgettable.

I liked the one where Bortus was addicted to smoking.

 

[Kor]

So far I find Lower Decks quite enjoyable. I still have not watched any of The Orville. If it is generally thought of as "a comedic take on Trek," well, I would rather see a comedic take on Trek that actually takes place within the Trek universe. The Orville doesn't, so it just doesn't interest me. I'm not a huge Galaxy Quest enthusiast either, for the same reason.

Kor

 

[fireproof78]

I've enjoyed the bits I've seen of ORV Season 3, but none of the characters have ever really clicked with me. It's a show to pass an hour with and on the whole quite forgettable.

This is what it comes down to me. The characters, especially early on Season 1, were wholly unengaging. The fact that Mercer basically got the ship back because of manipulations by his ex-wife and an admiral just cemented that irritation for me because it doesn't feel like he has any confidence in himself to be a leader. Which, is fine, in a comedy...but Orville went a different direction and now I struggle to shift from that comedy mode to that dramatic mode and without a character to grab on to it's very difficult to reengage.

That it has roots in Trek doesn't make it much better for me, sadly. It feels very hollow. Lower Decks acknowledges it's roots as well, but takes it as a way to explore those ideas in a very off speed way.

 

[Ghel]

I would be in the "I like both" camp; however, in an either/or scenario where I had to choose, I would choose Lower Decks over Orville. Oddly, perhaps, I enjoyed Orville better in seasons 1 and 2 rather than 3 with season 2 being the best.

Orville season 1 was (broadly speaking) a comedic Star Trek in which characters drank, swore, had affairs, and hit on each other. Sometimes edging (plunging?!?) into crude humor, it was still fun to watch.
Season 2 felt the most like 90s era trek with some humor mixed in. It was light-hearted, but it did some really interesting stories and even felt like it was expanding upon some TNG ideas (like the extension to Who Watches the Watchers with "The Kelly" and how religion evolved on that planet.)
In season 3 the humor was much more limited, which was ok to the extent that it felt like it had some solid stories. However, the expanded budget and run time felt like it worked against the show as it felt like there was way more story padding and "look at the zippy new shuttle craft" moments. I still like the show, but I found season 3 less engaging overall.

In contrast, Lower Decks has remained consistently funny, kinetic, and self-referential. It has mixed in some grounded storytelling and character growth over time, but it is more consistent overall in terms of its humor, pacing, and purpose. Hence, when I sit down to watch a random episode of either Orville or LD, I would generally choose LD.

 

[Enterprise1701]

Can I ask a mod to fix the typo in 'The Orville' in the thread title?

 

[Michael]

You got it. Hadn‘t noticed that, tbh.