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Tuvok & Neelix

I say the same about Seven and Chakotay. Every series seems to have one pointless pairing, and that was Voyager's
Voyager's was Janeway and Chakotay, Chak is a damn good looking man, but two had no electricity.
Can you also name the mismatch in ENT, and TOS ?
ENT would be Archer and TPol, early on I kept expecting that TPTB would have them engage in hate sex. Thankfully this never materialized.

For TOS it was Kirk and Spock, some fans really saw the whole slash appeal, and while I picked up on the chemistry, I didn't see it moving from the obvious bromance on to the physical stage.

Although some of the slash fan fiction was fantastic.
TOS only had one female in Uhura, and the prejudices of the time would have made any romance problematic.
Didn't stop many other series during the same time period.
 
Spock and Chapel always seemed pretty pointless to me, and I felt it didn't really do Chapel any favors.

Personally I was never really a fan of Trip-T'Pol either, but YMMV.
 
Archer and T'Pol were together in Twilight.

Considering his memory issues.

It was a little dodgy.

Unless she did only frakk every 7 years.
 
I say the same about Seven and Chakotay. Every series seems to have one pointless pairing, and that was Voyager's. For TNG, it was Worf/Troi. For DS9, Ezri/Bashir.
I disagree with Worf and Troi, there were seasons where the producers were building that relationship starting when Alexander became a member of the Enterprise crew.

They'd just had a baby minutes earlier.
Having babies doesn't secure a long term relationship.
 
There was a zoom youtube interview about Voyager a few days ago.

Mulgrew said that she and Robbie will always be connected because they had had kids together.
 
I humorously mentioned that "relationship" in my ill-advised attempt to post a fanfiction here.
 
I did spend 20 seconds wondering if they soiled the bridge set, but then the salamanders flashed on the screen to subside any dirty thoughts about those two arguing over who was going to take their girl to karate next week.

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Signed up just to jump in on this interesting conversation as I'm doing a non chronological rewatch of Voyager right now.

Going back to the conversation about what makes Neelix a terrible character - writing or performance. Is he written as a hapless boob, or played as a hapless boob, I want to compare with Rom, who most certainly was written as a hapless boob for at least the first four or five seasons of DS9, but from that hapless boob, Max Grodenchik was able to pull pathos and strength and love and courage, which was then reflected in the writing as Rom began to escape from Quark's dominant personality and got the reward he deserved in his marriage to Leeta and eventually becoming Grand Nagus. In fact, amongst all the amazing characters of DS9, I think it is Rom who develops the furthest from first to last episode. That is an example of a talented actor taking a character who exists for pure slapstick comedy relief and forcing the writers to develop the character through their on screen ability to connect with viewers. Rom and Leeta is a million times more believable than Neelix and Kes, and not just because of the rather silly Talaxian make up job. You can tell in every shot that Rom is head over heels with Leeta, whereas not once did I ever believe that Neelix felt a thing for Kes.

The fact is that the writers of Voyager didn't abandon Neelix. He didn't leave with Kes which would have been a very opportune time to get rid of the character. They kept him around and kept giving him chances to develop, less frequently as time went on, but he still gets more to do than Tuvok or Chakotay. Yet with all of that, Neelix almost never improves in terms of watchability. That has to lie with the skills of the actor, regardless of the writing. When you watch Voyager, you get the feeling that the only reason Neelix isn't just kicked off the ship is simply to spare his feelings because, far from being a good morale officer, more often than not he's actually an emotional drain on everyone around him, always needing reassurance or to be taught a lesson or to be tolerated for his over the top interpretations of everything.

Even that could have been worked into an excellent relationship with Tuvok a la Spock and McCoy which is what, I think everyone was aiming for, but Spock and McCoy worked because their barbs were mixed with grudging respect, while Neelix's needling of Tuvok often comes across like childish teasing. Neelix is indeed written like a child that everyone else has to parent, and it's rather embarrassing when Naomi Wildman comes across as more adult than him in scenes right next to him. And then it's made explicit in The Haunting of Deck 12 where Neelix is relegated to childminder for an entire episode - and it's probably his strongest outing.
 
He reminded me of a slightly over-enthusiastic cruise director. Fine for a week, but maybe not someone you want to spend a lifetime with.
 
I don't think it's fair to blame Philips here. He brought the goods in "Jetrel", "Fair Trade", and other episodes where the character was taken seriously. I think the writers failed the character.
 
I don't think it's fair to blame Philips here. He brought the goods in "Jetrel", "Fair Trade", and other episodes where the character was taken seriously. I think the writers failed the character.

There was a lot of that. The actors were competent enough. even Robert Beltran and Garrett Wang did well when given the opportunity to stretch, which rarely happened.
 
Using the Rom situation as a comparison may not be accurate, as the writing staff of both shows were very different.

The shows were really reflective of who was on the staff, and definitely who was in charge of the writers room.

DS9, in my opinion, had the better group of writers in terms of character development. Look at how many memorable secondary characters they had. Garak, Martok, Nog, Winn, Dukat, Weyoun, Rom, Damar... that's almost as many people as in the main cast of VOYAGER. Granted, all were portrayed by people with great talent, but if there was nothing there to begin with, they couldn't bring them to life like they did.

VOYAGER's writing room focused a bit more on the anomalies and concepts, which was a hallmark of Braga. Putting it another way, DS9 focused on character first, story/plot second. VOYAGER was the opposite. This is not really an insult to that writing staff, as they did bring us some great episodes and did develop some great characters. I'm simply illustrating a different style of writing that might explain things.

Another way to compare the styles... every episode of DS9 was trying to be a stage play, while VOYAGER was trying to be a movie of the week. They were going for different things, so we're going to get different results. Both have their place and value, and I enjoy both for what they are.
 
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