SNW Chapel seems to have all of TOS Uhura traits.

[valden]

As we all have heard now, The great graceful Nichelle Nichols has passed. This was big headline news around the world and it made me watch a lot of Uhura stuff, from the JJ Movies, to documentaries and many tribute videos to Uhura. I could not help but notice that the Uhura people seem to talk about in TOS does exist in SNW but she is in the body of Christine Chapel.

Many fans, actors , politicians and pop culture pundits seem to have loved Nichelle Uhura because of how confident, smart, ground-breaking, graceful, flirty and charismatic she was on the show that she could not be resisted by anyone. she was a woman in the midst of men in the 60s and she more than held her own , earning their respect and more. Uhura is an iconic character. period.

The legacy of TOS Uhura, I had no idea was that big. it was only until last week I saw all the tributes pour in even from the freaking president of the united states Joe Biden and i did my research that i just realized how big her legacy was. it just makes no sense to me now that a lot of the uhura traits from TOS is now been said about SNW Chapel and that also includes a romance with Spock.

Me watching TOS, and watching spock/chapel as well as spock/uhura scenes. Spock just never like Chapel. there is no way to spin it. he never liked her. Spock liking Chapel is like trying to argue that Rachel liked Gunther from Friends. it was a unrequited crush. Additionally Gunther was no Ross or Joey in terms of been a babe magnet, that was always Uhura. This is why if you watch TOS . Kirk , Spock, Sulu and many other male characters seem to show attraction or at least admire Uhura's at some point in the show even if it was under some influence, but I guess this was the only way they could do with with a black female character because the 60s were still dark times. That was wrong, but it was the 60s. I also recall President Lincoln did call Uhura charming.

While Nichelle Nichols Uhura was limited. they made her just answer phone but somehow Uhura always managed to still steal the show as the go to female character. a common tribute you see a lot with Nichelle Nichols. I swear at this point, the way people talk about TOS Uhura, you would not even know Chapel or even Rand was ever in TOS. why we now have SNW where they have swapped TOS Uhura in SNW Chapel just feel kind of disrespectful to Nichelle's legacy.

SNW Chapel had her shot to be with Spock in TOS and he rejected her. Uhura was never given the same shot. SNW writers should have gone with that if they cared so much about correcting the wrongs of the 1960s.

In my re-watch on Charlie X. I liked that Nimoy seem so into Nichelle that he broke character. when spock smiled at the end, that was Nimoy not Spock. this was the effect Nichelle Uhura had on people and has been said in many of the tributes even by William Shatner who is an ego manic. I cannot help but notice, it looks like some tributes paid to Nichelle, some in the star trek acting family may be taking silent diss digs at SNW or Nu Trek in general when they paid tributes Nichelle.

So RIP Nichelle Nichols for been such an outstanding light and making Uhura very iconic, it is a shame that SNW has now given all your personality and traits not to your younger self in SNW but to Christine Chapel, Hopefully as time goes by in SNW. the creators and writers will begin to fix this bad error and even explore a paring that they denied us in the 1960s due to racism

SNW please just be an alternate reality instead.

 

[Pauln6]

As we all have heard now, The great graceful Nichelle Nichols has passed. This was big headline news around the world and it made me watch a lot of Uhura stuff, from the JJ Movies, to documentaries and many tribute videos to Uhura. I could not help but notice that the Uhura people seem to talk about in TOS does exist in SNW but she is in the body of Christine Chapel.

Many fans, actors , politicians and pop culture pundits seem to have loved Nichelle Uhura because of how confident, smart, ground-breaking, graceful, flirty and charismatic she was on the show that she could not be resisted by anyone. she was a woman in the midst of men in the 60s and she more than held her own , earning their respect and more. Uhura is an iconic character. period.

The legacy of TOS Uhura, I had no idea was that big. it was only until last week I saw all the tributes pour in even from the freaking president of the united states Joe Biden and i did my research that i just realized how big her legacy was. it just makes no sense to me now that a lot of the uhura traits from TOS is now been said about SNW Chapel and that also includes a romance with Spock.

Me watching TOS, and watching spock/chapel as well as spock/uhura scenes. Spock just never like Chapel. there is no way to spin it. he never liked her. Spock liking Chapel is like trying to argue that Rachel liked Gunther from Friends. it was a unrequited crush. Additionally Gunther was no Ross or Joey in terms of been a babe magnet, that was always Uhura. This is why if you watch TOS . Kirk , Spock, Sulu and many other male characters seem to show attraction or at least admire Uhura's at some point in the show even if it was under some influence, but I guess this was the only way they could do with with a black female character because the 60s were still dark times. That was wrong, but it was the 60s. I also recall President Lincoln did call Uhura charming.

While Nichelle Nichols Uhura was limited. they made her just answer phone but somehow Uhura always managed to still steal the show as the go to female character. a common tribute you see a lot with Nichelle Nichols. I swear at this point, the way people talk about TOS Uhura, you would not even know Chapel or even Rand was ever in TOS. why we now have SNW where they have swapped TOS Uhura in SNW Chapel just feel kind of disrespectful to Nichelle's legacy.

SNW Chapel had her shot to be with Spock in TOS and he rejected her. Uhura was never given the same shot. SNW writers should have gone with that if they cared so much about correcting the wrongs of the 1960s.

In my re-watch on Charlie X. I liked that Nimoy seem so into Nichelle that he broke character. when spock smiled at the end, that was Nimoy not Spock. this was the effect Nichelle Uhura had on people and has been said in many of the tributes even by William Shatner who is an ego manic. I cannot help but notice, it looks like some tributes paid to Nichelle, some in the star trek acting family may be taking silent diss digs at SNW or Nu Trek in general when they paid tributes Nichelle.

So RIP Nichelle Nichols for been such an outstanding light and making Uhura very iconic, it is a shame that SNW has now given all your personality and traits not to your younger self in SNW but to Christine Chapel, Hopefully as time goes by in SNW. the creators and writers will begin to fix this bad error and even explore a paring that they denied us in the 1960s due to racism

SNW please just be an alternate reality instead.

Not really. If you look at Obsession and Amok Time, and maybe For the World is Hollow and I have Touched the Sky, you will see which crumbs Jess Bush relied upon to flesh out Chapel. She's a bit too in your face when working to assist M'Benga IMO but otherwise she's just injecting Chapel's personality into every episode rather than just occasionally.

Uhura meanwhile, is younger, a teenager in her formative years but you can see where she's headed.

Far from being disrespectful I think it's a wonderful homage to Nichelle.

Now, the way they treated Chapel in the JJ movies was disrespectful, dismissing her off camera as a discarded booty call, coming as it did so close to Majel's death.

They said at the time that they didn't include Chapel and Rand because they couldn't think of anything to do with them but SNW has shown that was sexist bs.

 

[valden]

Not really. If you look at Obsession and Amok Time, and maybe For the World is Hollow and I have Touched the Sky, you will see which crumbs Jess Bush relied upon to flesh out Chapel. She's a bit too in your face when working to assist M'Benga IMO but otherwise she's just injecting Chapel's personality into every episode rather than just occasionally.

Uhura meanwhile, is younger, a teenager in her formative years but you can see where she's headed.

Far from being disrespectful I think it's a wonderful homage to Nichelle.

Now, the way they treated Chapel in the JJ movies was disrespectful, dismissing her off camera as a discarded booty call, coming as it did so close to Majel's death.

They said at the time that they didn't include Chapel and Rand because they couldn't think of anything to do with them but SNW has shown that was sexist bs.

I don't think the JJ movies had that much impact since Chapel was never on screen. she did not even get a cameo, I feel in the long run those movies respected her enough not to show her on screen. We know one of the reoccuring arguments about SNW is how this Chapel could have been a different character. Of all the legacy character, Chapel is the one that has been changed the most, the only issue is that she has inherited another female character trait that was already very iconic. yes Chapel is too in your face but with every other character she is in contact with. Chapel on SNW is like a good version of Emperor Georgio mixed with Michael. whereas this SNW uhura is nothing like Uhura should be.

In jj trek, uhura was a cadet but not watered down and not a teenager. Uhura in JJ trek knew how to handle Kirk even in a drunk state and even Spock. Uhura did not have to be so version of wesley cusher like SNW. I dont know, i do feel it is Nichelle death and the amazing tribute she is been given even now after a week that is affecting my point of view. the way people take abut TOS Uhura, does not sound like the Uhura in SNW, it sound more like how people see Chapel now in SNW.

Also Uhura is the one who could boldly flirt with Spock in front of people. Chapel was more timid around him. SNW has reversed it. this was shown in children of the comet.

Funny I also see SNW Chapel taken on an evil mirror sulu. I dont see that with SNW Uhura.

There are also many cases where in TOS, Chapel was the character that needed reassurance, I think Mccoy told her to gain more confidence in herself. Why is that the case now in SNW with Laan and Hammer doing that with Uhura.

Sorry but Uhura and Chapel seem to have switched roles and it is just not in personality also. it is just a little bit cringey, since Uhura is such an iconic character, that shined even with the 1960s limitation of black women on screen. 60 years later they have a white female character playing her.

 

[fireproof78]

The idea that people are static and must be the same remains the more ridiculous aspects of fan expectations.

 

[Tuskin38]

They're nothing a like.

 

[Nerys Myk]

As we all have heard now, The great graceful Nichelle Nichols has passed. This was big headline news around the world and it made me watch a lot of Uhura stuff, from the JJ Movies, to documentaries and many tribute videos to Uhura. I could not help but notice that the Uhura people seem to talk about in TOS does exist in SNW but she is in the body of Christine Chapel.

Many fans, actors , politicians and pop culture pundits seem to have loved Nichelle Uhura because of how confident, smart, ground-breaking, graceful, flirty and charismatic she was on the show that she could not be resisted by anyone. she was a woman in the midst of men in the 60s and she more than held her own , earning their respect and more. Uhura is an iconic character. period.

The legacy of TOS Uhura, I had no idea was that big. it was only until last week I saw all the tributes pour in even from the freaking president of the united states Joe Biden and i did my research that i just realized how big her legacy was. it just makes no sense to me now that a lot of the uhura traits from TOS is now been said about SNW Chapel and that also includes a romance with Spock.

Me watching TOS, and watching spock/chapel as well as spock/uhura scenes. Spock just never like Chapel. there is no way to spin it. he never liked her. Spock liking Chapel is like trying to argue that Rachel liked Gunther from Friends. it was a unrequited crush. Additionally Gunther was no Ross or Joey in terms of been a babe magnet, that was always Uhura. This is why if you watch TOS . Kirk , Spock, Sulu and many other male characters seem to show attraction or at least admire Uhura's at some point in the show even if it was under some influence, but I guess this was the only way they could do with with a black female character because the 60s were still dark times. That was wrong, but it was the 60s. I also recall President Lincoln did call Uhura charming.

While Nichelle Nichols Uhura was limited. they made her just answer phone but somehow Uhura always managed to still steal the show as the go to female character. a common tribute you see a lot with Nichelle Nichols. I swear at this point, the way people talk about TOS Uhura, you would not even know Chapel or even Rand was ever in TOS. why we now have SNW where they have swapped TOS Uhura in SNW Chapel just feel kind of disrespectful to Nichelle's legacy.

SNW Chapel had her shot to be with Spock in TOS and he rejected her. Uhura was never given the same shot. SNW writers should have gone with that if they cared so much about correcting the wrongs of the 1960s.

In my re-watch on Charlie X. I liked that Nimoy seem so into Nichelle that he broke character. when spock smiled at the end, that was Nimoy not Spock. this was the effect Nichelle Uhura had on people and has been said in many of the tributes even by William Shatner who is an ego manic. I cannot help but notice, it looks like some tributes paid to Nichelle, some in the star trek acting family may be taking silent diss digs at SNW or Nu Trek in general when they paid tributes Nichelle.

So RIP Nichelle Nichols for been such an outstanding light and making Uhura very iconic, it is a shame that SNW has now given all your personality and traits not to your younger self in SNW but to Christine Chapel, Hopefully as time goes by in SNW. the creators and writers will begin to fix this bad error and even explore a paring that they denied us in the 1960s due to racism

SNW please just be an alternate reality instead.

No

 

[Mage]

The idea that people are static and must be the same remains the more ridiculous aspects of fan expectations.

It is to be expected. Most often, we are disappointed in people in real life and hold the characters from shows we adore in very high esteem. So when characters in shows go through some we in real life like to call normal change and development, many fans say this is not ok because they felt safety and comfort in the static reliability of these characters. It's like a safety blanket that got washed and doesn't smell right anymore.

Now, before I sound like a total jackass (and let's face it, the haters already stopped reading and started replying after 10 words) this is a very normal, human response. However, just like with fictional characters, understanding that change is a thing we all need to go through, so is understanding that we as viewers need to accept that the characters we love are like real humans capable of developing and becoming more.

James T Kirk was a different man with similair traits when compared to his first and last apperance. This goes for all characters through all of Star Trek. Or whatever fandom really.

 

[Pauln6]

I don't think the JJ movies had that much impact since Chapel was never on screen. she did not even get a cameo, I feel in the long run those movies respected her enough not to show her on screen. We know one of the reoccuring arguments about SNW is how this Chapel could have been a different character. Of all the legacy character, Chapel is the one that has been changed the most, the only issue is that she has inherited another female character trait that was already very iconic. yes Chapel is too in your face but with every other character she is in contact with. Chapel on SNW is like a good version of Emperor Georgio mixed with Michael. whereas this SNW uhura is nothing like Uhura should be.

In jj trek, uhura was a cadet but not watered down and not a teenager. Uhura in JJ trek knew how to handle Kirk even in a drunk state and even Spock. Uhura did not have to be so version of wesley cusher like SNW. I dont know, i do feel it is Nichelle death and the amazing tribute she is been given even now after a week that is affecting my point of view. the way people take abut TOS Uhura, does not sound like the Uhura in SNW, it sound more like how people see Chapel now in SNW.

Also Uhura is the one who could boldly flirt with Spock in front of people. Chapel was more timid around him. SNW has reversed it. this was shown in children of the comet.

Funny I also see SNW Chapel taken on an evil mirror sulu. I dont see that with SNW Uhura.

There are also many cases where in TOS, Chapel was the character that needed reassurance, I think Mccoy told her to gain more confidence in herself. Why is that the case now in SNW with Laan and Hammer doing that with Uhura.

Sorry but Uhura and Chapel seem to have switched roles and it is just not in personality also. it is just a little bit cringey, since Uhura is such an iconic character, that shined even with the 1960s limitation of black women on screen. 60 years later they have a white female character playing her.

I think perhaps you are allowing your first impressions to blinker your analysis and I don't think you are appreciating the character development that we have seen in the series so far.

The more Chapel falls for Spock, the less comfortable she feels flirting with him. We will see if that trajectory continues but it could certainly lead us to the scenes in Naked Time, Amok Time, and Plato's Step Children.

Don't get me wrong, this version is a bit full on for TOS Chapel but I think that is Jess Bush adding a bit more of Majel's own joi de vivre to the character. I saw an interview where Majel said Chapel was not interesting to play and she was a bit of a loser. I can see why they might want to do her more justice this time. As I said though, this version IS evident in TOS, albeit only occasionally.

I'm astonished that you found that Chapel's (lack of) portrayal in Into Darkness was respectful. It was implied that Kirk had slept with her, cast her aside, and forgot her name, prompting her to join Starfleet's equivalent of the Foreign Legion. They could have used any other character name to similar effect but chose to underscore Chapel, one of only three recurring female characters from TOS, was a throwaway character, instead of doing something interesting like SNW.

As for Uhura, she is clearly on a journey to the character we see in TOS. Presumably, as SNW is 6 years before TOS and she is a cadet, meant to be about 20-21, she will be 26-27 in TOS. It's silly to suggest that 6 years of experience would not allow her to develop into the confident character in TOS.

 

[fireproof78]

It is to be expected. Most often, we are disappointed in people in real life and hold the characters from shows we adore in very high esteem. So when characters in shows go through some we in real life like to call normal change and development, many fans say this is not ok because they felt safety and comfort in the static reliability of these characters. It's like a safety blanket that got washed and doesn't smell right anymore.

Now, before I sound like a total jackass (and let's face it, the haters already stopped reading and started replying after 10 words) this is a very normal, human response. However, just like with fictional characters, understanding that change is a thing we all need to go through, so is understanding that we as viewers need to accept that the characters we love are like real humans capable of developing and becoming more.

James T Kirk was a different man with similair traits when compared to his first and last apperance. This goes for all characters through all of Star Trek. Or whatever fandom really.

There is a whole lot of truth to the idea of safety and security within what fandom expects of media. And, certainly I have had that for at a time in my life. But, working in the real world, even in the basics of my early adult relationships, gave me the painful truth of people change, and that change is not the most evil thing in the world. Now, I don't like change but fighting against it in my voluntary media choices seems like tilting against the wrong windmills.

But, I'm more than willing to acknowledge that what I want from media is by and large not what a lot of other individuals want. There is an incredibly strong desire for static and things to remain the same. I don't find that appealing any more.

 

[Mudd]

SNW please just be an alternate reality instead.

Nope.

 

[Sci]

I think SNW Chapel is a wholesale reinvention of the character, extrapolating possible traits that were hinted at a couple of times in TOS to construct an actual personality for a character which in TOS had never been anything but a cardboard cutout. (I am sorry to say that Barrett, while absolutely wonderful as Lwaxana Troi, did not imbue her performance as Chapel with anything beyond what was in the script.)

SNW Uhura is a partial reinvention of the character, extrapolating traits Nichols imbued the character with in her performance that weren't present in the actual writing and making them foundational to the SNW version of the character.

I don't particularly think Jess Bush's Chapel is all that similar to Nichols's Uhura, except insofar as both are confident while being female at the same time.

 

[Mage]

There is a whole lot of truth to the idea of safety and security within what fandom expects of media. And, certainly I have had that for at a time in my life. But, working in the real world, even in the basics of my early adult relationships, gave me the painful truth of people change, and that change is not the most evil thing in the world. Now, I don't like change but fighting against it in my voluntary media choices seems like tilting against the wrong windmills.

But, I'm more than willing to acknowledge that what I want from media is by and large not what a lot of other individuals want. There is an incredibly strong desire for static and things to remain the same. I don't find that appealing any more.

I feel that. With my ocd and anxiety, I hated change. Still not a fan. But I had to learn to accept that things are, as said, not static.

 

[Pauln6]

I think SNW Chapel is a wholesale reinvention of the character, extrapolating possible traits that were hinted at a couple of times in TOS to construct an actual personality for a character which in TOS had never been anything but a cardboard cutout. (I am sorry to say that Barrett, while absolutely wonderful as Lwaxana Troi, did not imbue her performance as Chapel with anything beyond what was in the script.)

I don't particularly think Jess Bush's Chapel is all that similar to Nichols's Uhura, except insofar as both are confident while being female at the same time.

Bush is also tall. Ergo, clearly nothing like Uhura.

I think Majel did showcase Chapel's cheeky side occasionally. I could see Bush playing the scene in Obsession without missing a beat.

Also I cheered out loud when she hypo sprayed a pirate. This shows that the writers have watched TOS and are actively working in recognisable character traits with a wink.

 

[valden]

I think perhaps you are allowing your first impressions to blinker your analysis and I don't think you are appreciating the character development that we have seen in the series so far.

The more Chapel falls for Spock, the less comfortable she feels flirting with him. We will see if that trajectory continues but it could certainly lead us to the scenes in Naked Time, Amok Time, and Plato's Step Children.

Don't get me wrong, this version is a bit full on for TOS Chapel but I think that is Jess Bush adding a bit more of Majel's own joi de vivre to the character. I saw an interview where Majel said Chapel was not interesting to play and she was a bit of a loser. I can see why they might want to do her more justice this time. As I said though, this version IS evident in TOS, albeit only occasionally.

I'm astonished that you found that Chapel's (lack of) portrayal in Into Darkness was respectful. It was implied that Kirk had slept with her, cast her aside, and forgot her name, prompting her to join Starfleet's equivalent of the Foreign Legion. They could have used any other character name to similar effect but chose to underscore Chapel, one of only three recurring female characters from TOS, was a throwaway character, instead of doing something interesting like SNW.

As for Uhura, she is clearly on a journey to the character we see in TOS. Presumably, as SNW is 6 years before TOS and she is a cadet, meant to be about 20-21, she will be 26-27 in TOS. It's silly to suggest that 6 years of experience would not allow her to develop into the confident character in TOS.

You dont have to be astonished with into darkness. her portrayal was not the best. it was aloof as she does not appear on screen, so carol marcus could even have been wrong. i think it would have been worse if chapel was in into darkness and then we see kirk treating her like a side piece or even worse if chapel was in jj trek and they keep her crush on spock in that timeline, when spock is with uhura. i think that would have been worse and torture for chapel, so it is nice she never appears in those movies.

As for chapel getting more awkward just as person in SNW, i really dont see that happening either. I think the nu trek writers are very dedicated in deconstructing classic star trek. they have already done so with Uhura, Chapel and even Spock having a foster sister or Spock telling Chapel about Sybok.

also chapel was not just a throw away character in tos. she had three traits. looking for her fiancé, her crush on spock and been a nurse. i will say chapel was given more than tos uhura but the only difference is that nichelle nichols was just so appealing, strikingly graceful and yes been one of the first black women on tv who was not a housemaid all made her stand out. so she also stole the thunder from chapel and rand.

it is funny that when JJ Abrams rebooted star trek in 2009, they made uhura the central female and the only main female, when on paper it could and should have been chapel or rand but nichelle uhura was still the break out female star on the show that it played into the reboot movie. SNW is pushing that really had with jess bush chapel though.

I can understand the concept of uhura and her journey but it is not very believable to me anymore because another female character is already there.

 

[Sci]

I think Majel did showcase Chapel's cheeky side occasionally.

I think you are drastically overstating the extent to which the TOS version of Chapel could be said to have a personality of any sort, let alone to have one complex enough to have multiple "sides."

As for chapel getting more awkward just as person in SNW, i really dont see that happening either. I think the nu trek writers are very dedicated in deconstructing classic star trek. they have already done so with Uhura, Chapel and even Spock having a foster sister or Spock telling Chapel about Sybok.

... That's not deconstruction. "Deconstruction" is when a writer uses a narrative to metaphorically "take apart" a character or narrative in order to reveal deeper truths that were hidden beneath the surface. One example would be Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan was a deconstruction of James T. Kirk -- putting a symbol of youthful male heroism into a situation where he's forced to confront his own inevitable mortality because he's just turned 50, he's feeling old, he's suddenly dealing with the delayed consequences of a bad choice he made as a young man in the form of Khan coming back to try to kill him, he's meeting his son for the first time, and then his best friend sacrifices his life to save the ship. The deeper truth that gets revealed is that Kirk had never really faced the inevitability of his own death (indicated metaphorically by the reveal that he cheated on the Kobayashi Maru test).

Nothing in Strange New Worlds has deconstructed any of the TOS legacy characters. They have established new things about them (e.g., learning about Uhura's family dying), and sometimes essentially reinvented them (e.g., Chapel and Pike), but these narratives didn't reveal deeper truths about the the characters that were hidden beneath the surface. When Nicholas Meyer established that Kirk had never faced the inevitability of his own mortality in The Wrath of Khan, he was making a point about the version of Kirk as written in TOS -- he was arguing that Kirk in TOS was a wish-fulfillment figure who wasn't fully psychologically realistic and represented a certain denial of reality. The new things we've learned about the TOS legacy characters haven't revealed any deeper hidden truths about their TOS portrayals -- the TOS version of Uhura didn't represent some deeper facet about the nature of denial or grief or whatever; she was just not a fully fleshed-out character and now SNW is fleshing her out.

You could argue that Discovery and Picard are deconstructions of the traditional TNG/VOY writing format, since DIS and PIC challenge the utopianism of that style. Deep Space Nine was a deconstruction of that format as well. But that's not the same thing as SNW being a deconstruction of the TOS legacy characters. It just isn't.

also chapel was not just a throw away character in tos. she had three traits.

She was a cardboard cut-out so undeveloped that there's literally a YouTube video entitled "The Cumulative 4 Minutes They Let Christine Chapel Have A Personality:"

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looking for her fiancé,

The thing that made no sense (why would a starship nurse be able to look for a missing person?), barely mattered at all in the episode, and then was never ever mentioned again?

her crush on spock

Poorly-executed. We have no sense of why she loves him, what drew her to him, what kinds of platonic relationships she normally has, what her ambitions in life are, what her interests are, no sense of who she is outside of her job and her feelings for Spock.

i will say chapel was given more than tos uhura but the only difference is that nichelle nichols was just so appealing, strikingly graceful and yes been one of the first black women on tv who was not a housemaid all made her stand out. so she also stole the thunder from chapel and rand.

Nichelle Nichols was excellent at imbuing Uhura with a sense of life and personality beyond what was present in the writing. Barrett was able to do that with Lwuxana in The Next Generation, and I even think she was able to do that with Number One/Una in "The Cage," but she failed to do that with Chapel in TOS.

it is funny that when JJ Abrams rebooted star trek in 2009, they made uhura the central female and the only main female, when on paper it could and should have been chapel or rand but nichelle uhura was still the break out female star on the show that it played into the reboot movie. SNW is pushing that really had with jess bush chapel though.

I don't think SNW is "pushing" the idea that Chapel is "the main female." Strange New Worlds is a majority-female cast; its second episode was all about Uhura, and its third episode was about Una. But Jess Bush is an enormously charismatic actor whose character is in an interesting, complex relationship with Spock, so she's getting a lot of attention, but then you've got La'an, who was literally the main focus of two or three episodes.

I can understand the concept of uhura and her journey but it is not very believable to me anymore because another female character is already there.

.... what?

As someone who is himself recovering from losing multiple family members -- my grandmother passed away in late 2019 and we're coming up on the one-year anniversary of my mother's death -- I relate a lot to Uhura's journey of finding herself and building relationships again after losing the foundational relationships of your life. And I have no idea what the hell you mean when you say you don't find her journey believable "because another female character is already there." La'an isn't in the process of grieving -- she lost her family a long time ago; her arc is about vengeance and healing from trauma more than grief per se. If anything, La'an and Uhura are on opposite journeys in how they react to losing loved ones; La'an has spent most of her life shutting other people out, and Uhura is in the process of learning how to welcome people into her heart again.

 

[valden]

I think you are drastically overstating the extent to which the TOS version of Chapel could be said to have a personality of any sort, let alone to have one complex enough to have multiple "sides."

Actually deconstruction is what is the ideal though poor way of writing new show this days that was already established from old shows. the disney star wars movies failed because they have tried to deconstruct too many characters that if you started to combine the prequel, original and sequel trilogy nothing will add up anymore. those are part of the reasons those disney star wars films are terrible. these same awfulness can be found in star trek discovery, picard and also in SNW.

Chapel is getting so deconstructed that she is breaking canon. she is also been reimagined to another established female character in terms of personality and traits (Uhura). Chapel is not even suppose to know spock has a fiancé. that is a fact from TOS. so there is no way she should be part of a love triangle. they could have gone with Laan instead. She is also been pushed as spock trusted only friend, this should not be so because TOS established that Kirk has only been spock trusted friend. so the deconstruction here like the disney star wars is not even adding up. same with SNW Uhura but i am glad that this has now become a common criticism of chapel in SNW as it is more forced than them deconstructing uhura.

Chapel was not all that much of a card board character in TOS and even if she was, it makes SNW look worse now because it will mean they have over done a reimagination of the character that you cannot match the two anymore. They are now at opposite ends. Also you are right about personality in a way but compared to Uhura in TOS. Uhura had more of a personality.. However in SNW this has been reserved.

The thing that made no sense (why would a starship nurse be able to look for a missing person?), barely mattered at all in the episode, and then was never ever mentioned again?

Point of the fact is, she joined the ship to look her Korby. that is TOS Fact that cannot be changed. it was a noble cause so it make sense, which is why SNW is a bad deconstruction of Chapel because now they are even ignoring some facts about TOS they claim SNW is a direct prequel too. I think the creators really want to push chapel as the break out star if the show really bad that is why she is the one character who is so drastically different and the one character that has broken canon the most.


Poorly-executed. We have no sense of why she loves him, what drew her to him, what kinds of platonic relationships she normally has, what her ambitions in life are, what her interests are, no sense of who she is outside of her job and her feelings for Spock.

Nah, I dont think it was all that poorly executed. because people have crushes on others in real life and many times the feelings were never returned by the other. That was the whole point. it make sense that chapel and women liked spock because spock was different and that appeal to many women. Gunther had a crush on rachel on friends for 10 seasons. it was kind of awkward and sometimes sweet like Chapel and Spock from tos but it was still one sided. but it was a crush. no one ever said it was poorly executed.

Spock just never loved or liked her but the writers really want to changed this so much that it will break all sorts of canon and at the expense of another character who spock potentially saw more attraction towards than he ever did with Chapel in TOS despite the limitations of the 60s racism.

This is a fact from TOS and I think this is why in SNW, they have given chapel a lot of uhura traits of been very bold , flirty with men and confident. Uhura even knew how to own President Lincoln while staying classy. Chapel is also been pushed as the high school stereotypical ''sexy one'' in SNW, when in TOS Uhura, that was uhura's thing and she was not afraid to use her sex appeal on spock in charlie x and sulu in the mirrorverse episode. JJ Abrams even explored this more in his films to the point that you were convinced she was going to end up sleeping with kirk as he would not stop flirting with her. Chapel was none of these things that Uhura has ever displayed. It is just so jaring now with all the tribute to Nichelle Nichols that you see how SNW have swapped both women.

Everything Nichelle is been praised for in TOS. Chapel in SNW is getting that kind of attention in 2022.

SNW writers seem to have missed the part where it is now possible not to dim the light of the black woman just to make the white female character shine brighter. Ironically that it was this same Uhura that broke those rules that they have now stolen everything from and given to chapel in 2022.


SNW Chapel = TOS Uhura (but without the 60s racism limitations)
SNW Uhura = TNG Wesley Crusher.

 

[Sci]

Actually deconstruction is what is the ideal though poor way of writing new show this days that was already established from old shows.

All you've done is repeat your assertion. You have yet to demonstrate how anything in SNW "deconstructs" the TOS characters.

Chapel is getting so deconstructed that she is breaking canon.

She is not being deconstructed. She's been reinvented wholesale; those are different creative processes. Deconstruction would be taking elements present in TOS, and then taking the character apart to reveal some hidden truth beneath the surface. SNW is not doing that to the Chapel character; SNW Chapel is, frankly, an almost completely new character with only superficial similarities to the TOS version. That is not a deconstruction.

she is also been reimagined to another established female character in terms of personality (Uhura). Chapel is not even suppose to know spock has a fiancé. that is a fact from TOS. so there is nio way she should be part of a love triangle. they could have gone with Laan instead. She is also been pushed as spock trusted friend, this should not be so because TOS established that Kirk has only been spock trusted friend.

This is just a random collection of complaints. It is not an argument that the writing choices made constitute any form of "deconstruction." Repeating your claim does not make it true.

Chapel was not all that much of a card board character

Yes she was. Most female characters were in TOS. The TOS writers did not in general do justice to their female characters.

and even if she was, it makes SNW look worse now because it will mean they have over done a reimagination of the character that you cannot match the two anymore.

No, doing a wholesale reimagination of the character is a good thing. Not completely matching TOS is not a bad thing. TOS wrote its female characters poorly; giving them actual personalities is better than matching TOS.

There's nothing good about matching bad creative decisions from almost 60 years ago.

The thing that made no sense (why would a starship nurse be able to look for a missing person?), barely mattered at all in the episode, and then was never ever mentioned again?

Point of the fact is, she joined the ship to look her Korby. that is TOS Fact that cannot be changed.

Sure. It's also a sign of bad writing, because nothing about it made sense or was ever referenced again.

it was a noble cause so it make sense, which is why SNW is a bad deconstruction of Chapel because now they are even ignoring some facts about TOS

You do realize that "deconstruction" is not a synonym for "any creative decision I disagree with," right? It's a specific creative process that is absolutely not at play in SNW's depiction of Christine Chapel. Nothing about the SNW version of Chapel involves taking apart the TOS version to reveal hidden truths.

I think the creators really want to push chapel as the break out star if the show really bad that is why she is the one character who is so drastically different and the one character that has broken canon the most.

I don't think she's "broken canon" the most. Like, it doesn't really make sense that Dr. M'Benga was chief medical officer ten years before McCoy but then is serving under McCoy in TOS, especially after he illegally hid his daughter in the pattern buffers. It doesn't really make sense that Una was Illyrian if the Talosians never noticed she wasn't Human when they abducted her for Pike to mate with her. It doesn't really make sense that Spock and T'Pring were engaged when he acts like he hasn't seen her since childhood in "Amok Time." It doesn't really make sense that Pike has a majority-female bridge crew in SNW yet claimed he wasn't used to having any women on the bridge except Number One in "The Cage." There's a lot of creative reinterpretation happening in SNW, and Chapel is far from the only recipient of that.

I don't even think the producers are pushing her as the "breakout star." I think Jess Bush is getting a fair amount of mainstream media attention because she's a really charismatic actor, but La'an, Una, and Spock all got more episodes to themselves than Chapel did.

Poorly-executed. We have no sense of why she loves him, what drew her to him, what kinds of platonic relationships she normally has, what her ambitions in life are, what her interests are, no sense of who she is outside of her job and her feelings for Spock.

Nah, I dont think it was all that poorly executed. because people have crushes on others in real life and many times the feelings were never returned by the other. Gunther had a crush on rachel on friends for 10 seasons. it was kind of awkward and sometimes sweet like Chapel and Spock from tos but it was still one sided. but it was a crush.

In what sense was it not poorly-executed? What, in TOS, are we to conclude about the kind of person Chapel is that she fell in love with Spock? What is he attractive to her? What kinds of relationships does she have with other people? Who is she, in TOS, other than her job and her crush on Spock?

Spock just never loved or liked her but the writers really want to changed this so much that it will break all sorts of canon and at the expense of another character who spock potentially saw more attraction towards than he ever did with Chapel in TOS. This is a fact from TOS and I think this is why in SNW, they have given chapel a lot of uhura traits of been very bold , flirty with men and confidence. Chapel was none of these things but Uhura was. It is just so jaring now with all the tribute to Nichelle Nichols that you see how SNW have swapped both women.

They didn't "swap" anything. You just think all women who are confident and occasionally flirt have the same personality.

 

[valden]

All you've done is repeat your assertion. You have yet to demonstrate how anything in SNW "deconstructs" the TOS characters.


.

I have demonstrated it but you can ignore it all you want. TOS is still there as fact. you are even contradicting yourself as you have already posed a video of who chapel was in TOS.

Been reinvented is the same as deconstruction in a way, also you are not suppose to reinvent, that only works if you are doing like a full reboot, not even an alternate reality reboot like JJ trek but a full reboot as they do with spiderman films. since SNW is a direct tos prequel, chapel should not have been like a brand new character because she already exist and her story is already told.

Sorry but having a crush on someone is not bad writing. it is only bad writing when you want to change this and it destroys factual canon. it is not poorly executed. it is human and very realistic. what will be poorly executed would be to try and force a romance in the prequels when we know spock already rejected her soundly and many times.

LOL Hidden truth, that chapel had a fiancé, that spock nevver loved her and in AOS she uses a love charm on him and he still rejects her. this is fact. the writers trying to now reimagine her as the opposite.

Oh they have swapped both women and believe me the backlash is going to get big because man black sci fi are picking up on it. it is already an online African American black forum who are watching SNW and are wondering what is going in with SNW Chapel and SNW Uhura.

Yeah, they swapped both women even in action skills sets. Uhura has shown she can be handy during fight scenes. it was in the TOS movies and in JJ Star trek. Chapel is a nurse, she is not even suppose to know how to fight or take out people but she does this so well in episode 7. nurses should not be able to that but now she can be action girl. LOL. Mccoy Bones is not even that.

So yeah, there is a swap. a lot of uhura traits has been given to chapel including action girl. which was an uhura trait. why this SNW Uhura is just a badly child version of wesley crusher.

chapel needs to stop stealing from uhura.

 

[Tuskin38]

SNW Uhura is just a badly child version of wesley crusher.

They're absolutely nothing a like. I think you need to rewatch TNG.

 

[fireproof78]

nurses should not be able to that but now she can be action girl.

Bullshit. I work in the healthcare field and absolutely we are trained in the management of aggressive behaviors and to fight to survive. That's a BS double standard if I ever heard one, never mind the use of terms like "deconstruction" when there is not that going on. Just expansion of relatively thing characters as presented in TOS.

They're absolutely nothing a like. I think you need to rewatch TNG.

And TOS. And AOS. And Kelvin Trek.