Rethinking TMP....

[Maurice]

The reason for the aztecing was to create a sense of scale that would otherwise be absent on a smooth object as opposed to adding lots of textural surface detailing. Look down the side of an actual ship or airliner and you'll see all kinds of imperfections which convey scale without greeblies. You may not agree with the Aztecing, and perhaps a different paint technique could have done something to impart scale, but without it the model would likely not have looked big when projected on a big screen.

 

[Warped9]

The reason for the aztecing was to create a sense of scale that would otherwise be absent on a smooth object as opposed to adding lots of textural surface detailing. Look down the side of an actual ship or airliner and you'll see all kinds of imperfections which convey scale without greeblies. You may not agree with the Aztecing, and perhaps a different paint technique could have done something to impart scale, but without it the model would likely not have looked big when projected on a big screen.

I still don't care for it. It looks gimmicky.

 

[Maurice]

What part of "perhaps a different paint technique could have done something to impart scale" disagrees with your opinion?

 

[Warped9]

What part of "perhaps a different paint technique could have done something to impart scale" disagrees with your opinion?

I meant I understand your point about why the aztec pattern was used, but the resulting overall effect still doesn't work for me. No other Trek ship design (to my knowledge) ever used that again and didn't really suffer for it.

I feel much the same about the Christmas Tree lighting effects. I know the thinking behind it, but I still don't care for it.

 

[Warped9]

This could be something of a gradual process as I try to give some careful thought to how I will change things.

Presently I'm starting work on the saucer. I want to retain the angle at the saucer's rim even as I round off the upper edge a wee bit. I might also make the saucer just a bit bigger in diameter. The contour of the upper and lower saucer curves will be modified which will increase the interior volume without drastically changing the saucer's overall shape. The idea is if you overlay the new saucer over the old one you should be able to accept that it's a modification of the original.

The bridge dome and B/C decks will also be modified, primarily to accommodate the new twin turbolift arrangement. I might also retain the TMP refit's docking port idea since it does make sense.


I hope to have something to show soon.

 

[Kor]

On physical models of the original Enterprise put together by hobbyists, I notice a kind of "weathering" that looks very good and makes the ship seem more like a large object.

But I'm not sure about the logic of surface weathering on an object that flies through the vacuum of space with deflectors that prevent any contact with objects or particles of any kind.

Kor

 

[Warped9]

I think the weathering was meant to make the ship look less pristine and also affect light shone on the model. It's a dubtle effect giving the ship more surface detail without having to actually make more seems and hatches and such. But a ship in the vacuum of space shouldn't be encountering that kind of weathering or surface erosion. Then again if the ship over its operational service encountered unusual phenomena and energies and such then who knows how that might affect the hull. It was really a matter of creative licence.

Given that this refit could have a lot of the hull reskinned (so to speak) along with new components added I think I'll forgot trying to weather it.

 

[Warped9]

Basic main saucer without details. I might tweak the shape of the turbolift housing/docking port a bit more. The overall changes are subtle but noticeable when you overlay atop the original saucer or compare them side-by-side.

 

[Warped9]

The pylons will be swept although possibly not as severe as the TMP design. That means the pylons will have to attach to the secondary hull further forward than before.

The trick is to modify the TOS design without loosing too much of the original overall aesthetic. That's where I felt MJ's Phase II refit missed because I didn't feel it looked as well integrated as before. And the TMP refit went for a whole new aesthetic. There is something more angular and hard-edged looking to the TMP design.

I'm hoping to enlarge the secondary hull a bit as well as gain some more space for the hangar facilities.

I'm not planning on doing the interior, but I envision the Engineering layout more like TOS than TMP. But thats not really here or there for this exercise.

 

[Wingsley]

One concept that I think Icy_Penguigo did a few years ago was to have the plan view of the nacelle-pylons angled as with TMP, but to have the pylons the same width at both ends. This gives it a new and different look.

 

[Warped9]

I'm currently struggling with the impulse engines. Should I retain more of the original setup or go for something roughly similar to what they did for TMP?

Hmm...

 

[Wingsley]

There was nothing in TMP or any of the other movies to indicate that the supposed revolutionary nature of this "almost entirely new Enterprise" somehow involved a radical redesign of the starship's impulse engine system. There TOS version seemed relatively low-profile compared to the TMP version. So maybe a more conservative refit is in order there. (Unless you want to emphasize the saucer-section's quasi-independent nature more, by allowing for a more substantial impulse engine room than what we saw in "The Alternative Factor".)

 

[Warped9]

The one thing I've definitely rejected is that idea of a power conduit going up through the dorsal to some sort of energy receptacle just forward of the actual impulse engines. That silly conduit takes up a lot of space in the dorsal and i'm not that fond of how that part of the TMP impulse setup was designed.

 

[Wingsley]

Plus I have no idea how they'd also fit a turbolift in that neck as well...

 

[erifah]

Some early ideas from some years ago.




Thoughts anyone?

My thoughts are:

1.) TMP Enterprise is beautifully proportioned, detailed, and executed with magnificence; and,

2.) Your interpretation is quite different and equally beautiful. Yet also quite similar to some original concept art:

 

[erifah]

The one thing I've definitely rejected is that idea of a power conduit going up through the dorsal to some sort of energy receptacle just forward of the actual impulse engines. That silly conduit takes up a lot of space in the dorsal and i'm not that fond of how that part of the TMP impulse setup was designed.

I agree. It made NO sense whatsoever - but it looked FANTASTIC on-screen.

When I doodle, I prefer to think that each warp nacelle is a fully self-contained unit. The Bussard collector, the warp coils, the matter and the antimatter storage tanks, and a warp core are all within each nacelle.

The engine room would be an visually exciting place with lots of dials and gauges and levers and winky-blinky lights, with engineers balancing the power settings of each nacelle, managing systems, and whatnot.

And all that colossally insane, potentially dangerous power is up and away, safely away from the inhabited sections of the ship, in case something goes higgledy-piggledy and blow up. No issues with being unable to eject the warp core, just detach the entire nacelle if needed. And nobody being poisoned and/or dissolved by coolant leaks.

 

[Warped9]

^^ And that idea was actually referenced in TOS in "The Apple" when Kirk mentions jettisoning "the pods." In TAS in "One Of Our Planets Is Missing" we see Scotty take antimatter up into one of the nacelles.

 

[Warped9]

Gradual progress with lots of details yet to be filled in.



This is more of the MJ style of approach rather than the TMP feature approach.

For the main hull I've adopted the gentle curves of the TMP saucer which actually originated with MJ. The bridge docking port is also simpler than the TMP version. The B/C deck structureis certainly more MJ/FJ shaped than TMP. The impulse housing is somewhat like the TMP version but done with more of a TOS aesthetic.

The secondary hull looks almost identical to the TOS design, but it is subtlely different. The hull is a smidgen larger in diameter and it doesn't taper aftward quite as severely as before. The result is a larger after section for more interior space for the shuttlecraft facilities. The hangar entrance is also moderately redesigned. This will allow somewhat larger craft to be accommodated. The fantail cutout extends a bit further forward to visually balance out that the now swept support pylons will be mounted further forward. The nav deflector has been tucked into the deflector housing while the housing itself has been elongated a bit. I'm weighing the idea of making the housing a bit larger in diameter.

 

[Warped9]

I'm presently working on the nacelle design and it's a bit slow going given it's not coming out quite exactly as I originally envisioned it. It's close, but not exact. I've had to simplify it just a bit to make it work for me to build. I'll have to see it it complete to know if I'm truly satisfied with it. Superficially it bears some resemblance to the TMP style nacelle but, again, it's more TOS like in the overall aesthetic. It also has a thicker cross-section than the TMP nacelle.

I'm also considering a different nacelle design as an alternative that plays with something more cylindrical yet not like the what MJ designed originally.

 

[spockboy]

Gradual progress with lots of details yet to be filled in.



This is more of the MJ style of approach rather than the TMP feature approach.

For the main hull I've adopted the gentle curves of the TMP saucer which actually originated with MJ. The bridge docking port is also simpler than the TMP version. The B/C deck structureis certainly more MJ/FJ shaped than TMP. The impulse housing is somewhat like the TMP version but done with more of a TOS aesthetic.

The secondary hull looks almost identical to the TOS design, but it is subtlely different. The hull is a smidgen larger in diameter and it doesn't taper aftward quite as severely as before. The result is a larger after section for more interior space for the shuttlecraft facilities. The hangar entrance is also moderately redesigned. This will allow somewhat larger craft to be accommodated. The fantail cutout extends a bit further forward to visually balance out that the now swept support pylons will be mounted further forward. The nav deflector has been tucked into the deflector housing while the housing itself has been elongated a bit. I'm weighing the idea of making the housing a bit larger in diameter.

Looking good!

Spockboy