Not Ten Forward.

[DaveyNY]

It is 10 forward. The producers just don’t care enough to make it accurate.
It’s just a dream sequence though.

After just watching the first episode... I'd be very hard pressed to justify making a statement like that about the Creators of this show.

That's pretty much 'pullin' chit outta ones arse' to try and make a seemingly senseless point.

Especially since IT IS A DREAM SEQUENCE, it shouldn't be a perfect representation anyway.

 

[Crewman6]

Devil's advocate: Do we have evidence (outside of non-canon blueprints) the Ten Forward seen in TNG is the very front of the saucer?

That's literally why it's called "forward."

It was just a production mistake. And also a dream, so it doesn't matter. It happens.

It's not supposed to be some "other room" that no one has ever heard of before. It's supposed to be a place that the audience (and the characters, for that matter) are familiar with.

 

[Tosk]

these things were supposedly also absent in-universe. Or at least Guinan was.

Dialogue makes it seem like she has been there for a while prior to The Child. In that ep Wesley says that Guinan never talks about herself, she says she does all the time. Perhaps there is another reference later that I am forgetting where the show specifies when she came aboard?

 

[SurvivorJoe]

I could be misremembering, but in "Yesterday's Enterprise" in the altered timeline doesn't Guinan tell Tasha that they were never meant to know each other? That would imply that in the regular timeline she wasn't present on the Enterprise when Tasha was alive in season one.

 

[Crewman6]

I could be misremembering, but in "Yesterday's Enterprise" in the altered timeline doesn't Guinan tell Tasha that they were never meant to know each other? That would imply that in the regular timeline she wasn't present on the Enterprise when Tasha was alive in season one.

She wasn't. They never overlapped. In "Redemption", Picard says Tasha died "a year before" Guinan came onboard.

Methinks the good captain was rounding up a bit, since Tasha died at the end of S1 and Guinan appeared at the beginning of S2.

But, then again, Trek's years don't always match up with the actual years/seasons of TV. it should and it usually does, but often they get the numbers off. Riker says he grew his beard "about four years" ago in S7's "the Pegasus" even though he had it at the beginning of Season 2, which was actually five years previously.

And so on...

 

[Timo]

Yup. But when people think of years, they can choose between thinking of the passage of time, and of the rolling of numbers, which are a very different thing when we discuss the timescale of years as it relates to human endeavors. I was born in the previous millennium, which in itself doesn't make me ancient: you need to get specific data on decades to verify that bit.

I'd say Ten Forward was a case of "space reserved for a purpose", but not a priority, and when it eventually got done, various factors affected who got the space and what specific use for. Such as Guinan asking Jean-Luc pretty please. And the grand opening was a really big deal, so everybody got their dose of Guinan in the few weeks before the S2 opener - and Wes more than others, due to his severe drinking issues vis-á-vis his mom abandoning him.

Most of the saucer rim would be like that. Perhaps the reason few later episodes featured LaForge rushing to a window to see what the ship's sensors couldn't was that all the rim spaces eventually got a purpose in life and couldn't be entered willy-nilly?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

It was just a production mistake. And also a dream, so it doesn't matter. It happens.

It's not supposed to be some "other room" that no one has ever heard of before. It's supposed to be a place that the audience (and the characters, for that matter) are familiar with.

Not convinced of that. The shot going in of centre looked very deliberate to me. I had noticed it first time around, but then again, I always thought 10 forward was meant that large. I never realised there were mirrors making it appear larger, or if I had, I thought it was actually to say to us it was larger.

 

[Takeru]

That's literally why it's called "forward."

It was just a production mistake.

What makes you think it was a mistake? Data had the wrong uniform and there were 5 queens, those were obviously deliberate decisions because it was a dream. Ten Forward not being in its usual location fits that.

 

[NCC-73515]

What makes you think it was a mistake? Data had the wrong uniform and there were 5 queens, those were obviously deliberate decisions because it was a dream. Ten Forward not being in its usual location fits that.

And being empty, with Irving Berlin music...

 

[Jayson1]

OK TNG Blueprints book by Rick Sternbach shows rooms on each side of the main bar as crew lounges......FWIW.

View attachment 13266

You won me over by saying TNG Blueprints. Only thing better would be Enterprise tech manuel.


Jason

 

[JesterFace]

I'm not a bar type of person but I'd like to go to that Guinan's establishment right now.

She wasn't. They never overlapped. In "Redemption", Picard says Tasha died "a year before" Guinan came onboard.

Or did Picard say "the year before you came on the Enterprise"? Not year before but in the previous year.

 

[Tosk]

He says, "a year before" but I still think he's rounding like most normal people do.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Perhaps Trek adventures don't take place on a weekly schedule, split up by seasons in-universe? Maybe there was a year between "Skin of Evil" and "The Child" or whatever S02E01 was.

 

[Timo]

Or then December 15th is a year before January 15th. I mean, it usually is.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Paul Weaver]

Perhaps Trek adventures don't take place on a weekly schedule, split up by seasons in-universe? Maybe there was a year between "Skin of Evil" and "The Child" or whatever S02E01 was.

We know from The Neutral Zone that it was 2364 at the end of season 1. The very next episode had Guinan in.

We know that Picard said, around Stardate 45020:
PICARD: Tasha died, a year before you came on the Enterprise. You never met her.

Which means Guinan arrived between the events of Skin Of Evil (SD 41601) and The Child (SD 42073).

"A year before" seems fine for "6 months before", especially when talking about events 3 years earlier when bigger things were on their mind.

We also know that Crusher was away for about a year, and left between SD41986 and SD42073

SD 43125: CRUSHER: Well, it's nice to be together again. I was at Starfleet Medical for a year. I missed about two inches of him.

We also know that various time anchors before and after season 2 fit in with 1 year per season

But yes, I can't see any reason that stardate 41601 was in January 2364 and 41986 was in December 2364.

N.B. just saw the original FASA chronology
* The first contact with Vulcans is in 2063
* First contact with the Klingon Empire in 2151.

Those two points were kept in First Contact and Enterprise, which I never realised before. Okuda's chronology in the 90s used different dates (2161 and 2218), but canon payed homage to the first chronology, fair play.

 

[Tracer Bullet]

I'd say Ten Forward was a case of "space reserved for a purpose", but not a priority, and when it eventually got done, various factors affected who got the space and what specific use for. Such as Guinan asking Jean-Luc pretty please. And the grand opening was a really big deal, so everybody got their dose of Guinan in the few weeks before the S2 opener

I was just rewatching “All Good Things...” and in the observation lounge scene in the present, Troi answers a question asked by Picard by saying that they had a reception for him in Ten Forward, so it’s clear that it was retconned to have always existed.

 

[Timo]

Wow, completely missed that one. And I did search, although only after posting, and hoping against hope that I'd find nothing compromising...

Happily, little contradiction there. Picard might have hated the place (that is, the very idea of the CO visiting the bar), never going there again until "The Child"; only the fact that Guinan took over the premises made him more amenable to visiting. And we don't need to think Guinan would have been there from the start, in contradiction of the things stated.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[cooleddie74]

It's Ten Forward in Picard's dreams. No different than when Data programs the Romulan holoprojector on Romulus to display a Riker to fool Sela and her guards. Data got Riker's hair wrong. Mistakes get made in recreations, even by androids.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Devil's advocate: Do we have evidence (outside of non-canon blueprints) the Ten Forward seen in TNG is the very front of the saucer?

It's name. Deck Ten, most Forward part of the ship.

In ST V, we saw a similar room on the Enterprise-A (complete with a wooden "ship's wheel"). This room was christened by the creative team as Five Forward, in salute of TNG. It was Deck Five, most Forward part of the ship.

 

[Crewman6]

What makes you think it was a mistake? Data had the wrong uniform and there were 5 queens, those were obviously deliberate decisions because it was a dream. Ten Forward not being in its usual location fits that.

Because those aren't "mistakes", they're deliberate choices to make the setting specifically eerie and dreamlike.

But the question on the table here is minuscule differences between the way the sets looked 30 years ago and how they were recreated now, details that only the most insanely anal would ever notice. They wouldn't land for 99.9% of the audience.

We can safely assume they were mistakes because there would be no POINT to making tiny, infinitesimal changes.

 

[The Old Mixer]

In ST V, we saw a similar room on the Enterprise-A (complete with a wooden "ship's wheel"). This room was christened by the creative team as Five Forward, in salute of TNG. It was Deck Five, most Forward part of the ship.

The same film that gave us a 78-level turbolift shaft with the numbers going up from the bottom. So Five Forward was behind the deflector?