NFL Discussion - 2013 Season

[gblews]

Manning is:

- 2nd in career passing yards
- 1st in career playoff passing yards
- 2nd in career touchdowns
- 4th in career playoff touchdowns
- 2nd in career passer rating
- 2nd in career sack percentage

And that's all-time, not just active quarterbacks. On what planet is that "very good, just not special?"

"Earth", where stats don't equal Super Bowl wins.

The odds of a football team (note the operative word here, team) making it to a Super Bowl, let alone winning one, are astronomical. Even if you have the greatest offense in history, like the Broncos did this season, you still need to be incredibly lucky and have a zillion things fall in your favor. Beyond that, while Peyton had a rough night (although a 70 percent completion percentage is rather impressive

"Gimmies", thats what my college coach used to call what Peyton was given to get that gaudy completion percentage. Part of the Seahwk's gameplan was to allow Manning to have free range in those short zones thereby effectively "botlling" up the Denver offense. More empty stats to be drooled over while the meat got away.

And yes, I agree with you that it takes a team effort and some luck to win a SB, but my point is that some quarterbacks need more of both than others. Peyton can win another SB but if he does it will not likely be without some massive help from a REALLY good running back and a much improved offensive line. To me, that doesn't jibe with a player who is (supposedly) the greatest ever at that position.

Just think what it might have done for his team if Peyton had been able to spin away from the rush a few times, get the Hawks pass rushers a bit back on their heels, and get his team into the end zone after they were down 15-0 in the second quarter. Might have been a different ballgame. At least his team might not have given up in the third quarter, even after Harvin's runback.

Manning deserves a seat at a table full of "elite" quarterbacks, but when the "elite" of the elite, the guys who have won mulitiple titles, inspired their teams beyond where they thought they could go (namely to championships multiple times), get up and leave for the VIP lounge, Peyton, IMO, should stay seated.

 

[Timby]

So because he won multiple Super Bowls, Jim "Career 67.5 passer rating" Plunkett was a better quarterback than Peyton Manning. Got it.

 

[gturner]

Well, from what the Seahawks are saying, Manning couldn't do that because the Seahawk's defense figured out his hand signals and play calling sometime in the first quarter, and he and the Denver coaching staff apparently never realized he'd been "hacked".

 

[Timby]

Yeah, a ton of the credit has to go to the Seattle defense -- that was a performance on par with the '85 Bears and the 2000 Ravens.

 

[archeryguy1701]

"Earth", where stats don't equal Super Bowl wins.

The odds of a football team (note the operative word here, team) making it to a Super Bowl, let alone winning one, are astronomical. Even if you have the greatest offense in history, like the Broncos did this season, you still need to be incredibly lucky and have a zillion things fall in your favor. Beyond that, while Peyton had a rough night (although a 70 percent completion percentage is rather impressive

"Gimmies", thats what my college coach used to call what Peyton was given to get that gaudy completion percentage. Part of the Seahwk's gameplan was to allow Manning to have free range in those short zones thereby effectively "botlling" up the Denver offense. More empty stats to be drooled over while the meat got away.

I wouldn't even necessarily go so far as to say that Seattle's gameplan was to let Manning have free reign of the short zone- that's just all Manning had time to do! If he tried to let anything develop beyond a screen or short route, he would get destroyed by the rushing defenders.

 

[Scout101]

Just seems to me that if the narrative when Peyton is winning is that he's a genius field general who's reading everything at the line, making his own adjustments, and the babbling nonsense isn't nonsense but actually means something, then by the same token he's gotta own a huge chunk of the blame pie when he's NOT picking apart the other team. Making bad play calls, bad reads, moving into the wrong protection schemes, etc.

He's either controlling all these things or he's not. Can't praise him on the good nights and fall back on 'it's a team game, not his fault' when he loses...

 

[Neroon]

Or one could simply say that on that day the better team figured him out and won. Easy's as that. The game is far more a team game than perhaps any other professional team sports, so there will be leeway in either direction. Some of his mistakes in this game were clearly his fault. Some were nothing more than a good play by the Seattle D. I doubt that very many people at least in this discussion are giving Manning a free pass.

Peyton's "legacy" ( I am getting sick of the subject) as one of the greatest is pretty firm when you take into account all factors such as regular season - and post season - as well as team surrounding, diversity of skill set, SB wins, MVP awards, etc. Even longevity. However, as THE greatest ... that's a question that likely can never be definitively answered.

 

[Yoda]

My god this Manning argument is silly. Obviously an all-time great, and obviously better than Tom Brady. As for reads and protection adjustments... did you even watch the game? Most of his reads seemed fine. There's not much of an adjustment for when your OL is getting obliterated despite the defense dropping 7 into coverage on every play. It's not like he was missing blitzes and hot reads. It's not like his run game was effective.

Manning didn't play perfectly, not even close, but even if he did the Broncos lose that game by 3-4 touchdowns instead of five.

 

[gblews]

Just seems to me that if the narrative when Peyton is winning is that he's a genius field general who's reading everything at the line, making his own adjustments, and the babbling nonsense isn't nonsense but actually means something, then by the same token he's gotta own a huge chunk of the blame pie when he's NOT picking apart the other team. Making bad play calls, bad reads, moving into the wrong protection schemes, etc.

He's either controlling all these things or he's not. Can't praise him on the good nights and fall back on 'it's a team game, not his fault' when he loses...

I'm really glad Peyton isn't publicly doing what some of his his supporters here are; that is, blaming his teammates for the loss and taking no responsibility himself.

 

[gblews]

So because he won multiple Super Bowls, Jim "Career 67.5 passer rating" Plunkett was a better quarterback than Peyton Manning. Got it.

I'm not going to say that Plunkett was a better quarterback, but if I had to win ONE game and he and Peyton were my only choices at quarterback...I'd take Plunkett without a moment's hesitation. In fact, I'de take Montana, Bradshaw, Staubach, Eli, and some others before Peyton in the same situation.

Full disclosure though, I am a Raiders fan and watched this warrior go into battle many times when given little to no chance to prevail and watched him do just that at the highest levels.

 

[Tom Servo]

Manning is:

- 2nd in career passing yards
- 1st in career playoff passing yards
- 2nd in career touchdowns
- 4th in career playoff touchdowns
- 2nd in career passer rating
- 2nd in career sack percentage

And that's all-time, not just active quarterbacks. On what planet is that "very good, just not special?"

Apparently the difference between "very good" and "special" is the ability to single-handedly win games in spite of what the rest of the team might be doing.

See that's the thing. "Single-handedly" always has to apply to the teams he has gotten to the plays and the Superbowls.

Look at pretty boy Brady. Alway a good defense and always a great O line. (when he won the superbowls).

Read that article posted previously in this thread.

And Manning for the most part, always had a better receiving corp to work with. Brady has done more with less over the length of his career on the offensive side of the ball.

I must ask though, what is it with this nations defense of Peyton Manning? Is it the down home aw shucks personality? When the guy shits the bed in MULTIPLE playoff appearances, there is always the group that will just rush to defend him and his legacy. He is one of the greatest QBs of all time, with a bad postseason legacy, considering his talent. Why is that so hard to say or admit?

Meanwhile Tom Brady has been Manning's equivalent (roughly so, I realize Manning has better regulars season numbers), for more the a decade, and yet we still get shit calling him "Pretty Boy Brady". Why doesn't he get the respect from the regular NFL fanbase that Manning does? Is it the Patriots thing? Is it his connection with Darth Hoodie? He and Manning will be considered the best QBs of this generation, but I know who I would take if I had a game that I needed to win.

Listening to Mike Francessa rant about how Peyton's legacy isn't tarnished by it, and how losing in the superbowl isn't shameful, while at the same time ripping BB and Brady for not winning one in a decade (though they've been to two and lost both by miracle plays) drives me crazy. People are always willing to make excuses for Manning, while similarly dumping on Brady.

 

[Davros]

I'm really glad Peyton isn't publicly doing what some of his his supporters here are; that is, blaming his teammates for the loss and taking no responsibility himself.

Well his teammate at the center position sure deserves a pretty big part of that blame.

 

[Scout101]

Unless he also got confused by the 25 different things Manning shouted out while running around, or couldn't hear the correct nonsense over the crowd noise. Complex nonsense gets credit for occasionally drawing the other team offsides, but this is the fairly obvious risk...

And in any event, that made the game 2-0. I'll even give you 5-0 for the field goal on the next drive. Manning couldn't overcome that?

 

[Davros]

Unless he also got confused by the 25 different things Manning shouted out while running around, or couldn't hear the correct nonsense over the crowd noise. Complex nonsense gets credit for occasionally drawing the other team offsides, but this is the fairly obvious risk...

He should be used to Manning doing that as he's been doing it all season.

And in any event, that made the game 2-0. I'll even give you 5-0 for the field goal on the next drive. Manning couldn't overcome that?

He cannot do it on his own. Receivers jumping back on the wrong side of the 1st down line didn't help. Manning made his share of mistakes, but it doesn't all rest on his shoulders.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Did anyone else go to the Hawks parade today? I did, and it was GLORIOUS!

 

[Yoda]

Seahawks? Bah way to dwell on last season. All eyes on SB XLIX

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Sore loser, somebody is...

 

[Yoda]

Sore loser is still better than sore "winner"

Not that my team has lost to Seattle in any legitimate fashion since 2006.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

2010 didn't count?

But I was teasing you a bit. Until today, I'd never gone to a Super Bowl parade and was seeing if anyone else here was there.

 

[Yoda]

Chargers fan, I am not.

Anyway, congrats on the Super Bowl victory, but I'm hoping for a measure of revenge on Seattle next season.