Flagship

[new_mercury]

My apologises if this has been addressed before but in my limited knowledge of naval history a flagship is one where an admiral is in command. The Enterprises are often said to be the flagship but other than when kirk was in charge in TMP (in which he took a temp. reduction to cpt anyway) an admiral is not in command.

Am I wrong in my thinking here or does this not apply to fed ships?

 

[Forbin]

This does indeed come up often.
Kirk's E was never called a flagship, btw, only Picard's E-D was referred to that way.

Yes, in military terms a flagship must have a flag officer (such as an admiral) aboard to qualify.

Some folks here suggest the term is used less formally in Trek, the way civilians might use it. Such as "The H2 is the flagship of the Hummer line!" - more hyperbole than accurate description.

 

[FPAlpha]

However it could be that the Enterprise was pre-labeled as a Flagship for the Admiral who currently commands the fleet the Enterprise is assigned to.

In the case of a big battle for example where the admiral is present it would automatically mean that the admiral boards the Enterprise and commands the battle from there.

 

[nx1701g]

In one of the novels this was addressed (I can't recall which one at the moment). It was said that Admiral Nechayev officially uses the Enterprise as the Flagship of the fleet that she commands. She just gives Picard autonomy and uses a different ship (I believe it was the Crazy Horse or the Gorkon) as her transport ship when the Enterprise is on another mission.

 

[Praetor]

An Admiral coming on board in the event of war or whatnot but not lowering him/herself to 'exploration' makes the most sense to me.

On that note, imagine an Admiral aboard full-time.

Now imagine it's Nechayev.

OUCH! Cover your balls!

 

[nx1701g]

^ I actually like Nechayev

 

[Who_Trek]

Praetor said:
An Admiral coming on board in the event of war or whatnot but not lowering him/herself to 'exploration' makes the most sense to me.

On that note, imagine an Admiral aboard full-time.

Now imagine it's Nechayev.

OUCH! Cover your balls!

I've watched most of ST, and it seems to me that most of the admirals I've seen on the various shows have been really kind of stupid and / or annoying. For example, I just watched ... "The Offspring", and the admiral comes across as a real jerk for most it. Then there's Jellico, the Pegasus guy (wasn't he an admiral?), and several others. What, when you're an admiral, you become a mean jerk?

On the other hand, the Admiral we've seen with the most depth was Bill Ross, and he came across pretty well (except for the section 31 episode, I guess).

 

[Capt. Vulcan]

Maybe they were jerks to begin with? Hmm... didn't janeway become an admiral?

 

[Timo]

For exact terminology, the E-D was considered "Flagship of the Federation", which is probably very different from being "Flagship of Starfleet", let alone "a flagship in Starfleet".

None of the other Enterprises ever had the honor of being called flagship of any sort, although sometimes flag officers did assume command or otherwise bring their flags aboard.

Perhaps a Constitution or Galaxy class vessel is not particularly suited for being a flagship in the naval sense? In WWI, Admirals sometimes preferred cruisers to battleships for their agility, and often chose battle cruisers. In WWII, battleships were found to be hopeless for commanding amphibious attack operations (the gunfire support they gave often rendered their radios inoperable and made the flag staff go nuts), and postwar USN found aircraft carriers the ideal capital ship for general flag duties, while dedicated and essentially unarmed flagships were also devised for theater command. In each case, a different technological reason made it undesirable to use the biggest and baddest warships of the day as flagships; some such reason might also exist in the 23rd and 24th century Starfleets.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Timo]

...Actually, where does the reference to the E-D being UFP Flagship come from?

(And I forget: is there a reference to the E-E being a flagship of some sort in ST:INS?)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[comsol]

I think Picard refers the the Enterprise-D as the "Federation Flagship" in Generations.

 

[Chaos Descending]

Who_Trek said:
Then there's Jellico, the Pegasus guy (wasn't he an admiral?),

Jellico was a Captain, not an Admiral. Although he was a bit anal retentive, he had every right to rearrange the ship to his liking. Futhermore, he would have been fully within his rights to have Riker brought up on charges for insubordination.

 

[RoJoHen]

Jellico is only an Admiral in novels, I believe.

 

[Jack Bauer]

RoJoHen said:
Jellico is only an Admiral in novels, I believe.

Correct.

 

[Timo]

...Although one of those, Once Burned, has a slightly screwy flashback timeline where Jellico appears to be an Admiral before the events of "Chain of Command" already.

Is ST:Generations really our only canon source for the idea that the Enterprise-D would have been "the Federation flagship"?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[AJBryant]

In all reality, the Enterprise is only the flagship of the Star Trek franchise. As neither the most important nor powerful single ship -- one with at least a few identical sisters, after all -- the only reason to call or consider the Enterprise the "flagship" is the connection to the show. In a real world, the Big-E would be just another ship in starfleet.


Tony

 

[Timo]

Oh, I dunno about that. Apart from the E-E, those ships have been of the largest type known to exist at the time. Moreover, the respective types probably didn't exist in large numbers at the respective times. The E-D could well have been unique or nearly so, as much deserving of "national flagship" status as USS Nimitz or USS Ronald Reagan might deserve it in today's USN.

Of course, we might simply have missed the even more impressive and unique designs of the respective eras. Kirk's original ship strikes me as run-of-the-mill, adding an extra degree of glamour by its total lack thereof.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[3D Master]

Who_Trek said:
Then there's Jellico

First of all, Jellico was not an Admiral. Second of all, Jellico was neither stupid or anything else derogatory. Jellica was and is one of the greats, every bit as great as Picard, if not greater.

Also, in that episode the Enterprise was also called the flagship of the fleet. I think in Starfleet, the "flagship" is not a ship that carries an admiral; it's simply the ship that would have command of a fleet, unless an higher ranked officer is in charge of another ship - and if any fleet engagements would occur and it can be prepared on beforehand, such a higher ranked officer would be on that ship.

 

[C.E. Evans]

To me, the term "Federation flagship" is a 24th-Century concept and is a title given to the ship chosen to be the most high profile vessel in Starfleet. The one to represent the Federation the most in international--I mean, interplanetary--affairs.

That being said, I think that there are other flagships in Starfleet that do carry the flags of actual admirals or serve as the primary command ship in a particular taskforce though.

 

[jayrath]

Maybe (just maybe) this is a carryover from TMP? In that single instance, at least, Enterprise was a flagship -- an admiral was in command. Perhaps as a sign of respect, the nomenclature was carried over ever afterward.

But that's pretty sketchy, I'll admit. It was a goof, plain and simple.