All the Negative people.

[BillJ]

I like Mariner, she is quickly tracking towards being one of my favorite Trek characters. Michael Burnham? She feels like such a missed opportunity.

 

[Makarov]

I wonder how much of that is the writing and how much is Patrick Stewart. He's a good actor, but I have yet to see anything he's been in which doesn't have the feel of Shakespeare, when it comes to his performances. There is a....sameness. It's like he can't quite come down from that elevated stentorian tone....which sounds pompous.

I think he shows a lot of range in Picard especially joking around wearing an eyepatch and the way he reacts to things like Rios being the Captain he's able to let loose more these days

 

[Bad Thoughts]

There's also plenty of people who hide behind the issue of quality vs. politics. Maybe I'm being paranoid but I believe that a lot of the negativity around certain progressive projects is done by people who are avoiding attacking the message directly by instead going after the medium.

I agree whole-heartedly. There are any number of rhetorical strategies that are used to communicate ideas without admitting that they are racist, or misogynist, or anti-semitic, or homophobic, etc. The argument that the person who brings up a need or an injustice is the one who is politicizing an issue is very much on the forefront of my mind. (Really? Am I being a "libtard" for insisting schools should not open right now?) The rhetorical strategy blames the one who brings knowledge to the issue, as if the great injustice was not the lack of equaity or justice, but the loss of innocence. The whole issue with swearing in the new series seems to fit this vein. It's not like TNG did not have "shitty" dialogue, but somehow a handful of the f-word seems to destroy the seriousness of the frachise seems absurd. The f-word is barely a relevant social issue, but even that seems to be verbotten!

 

[fireproof78]

There's also plenty of people who hide behind the issue of quality vs. politics. Maybe I'm being paranoid but I believe that a lot of the negativity around certain progressive projects is done by people who are avoiding attacking the message directly by instead going after the medium. The hatred of DISCOVERY, for example, being a vitriol not because the guys actually care about the bad Klingon costumes but wanting to see it destroyed for its politics or Michael's overfocus in the plot but actually because, yes, she's a black woman lead. I've seen similar accusations toward LOWER DECKS Mariner that she's a Mary Sue when all she has in common with Michael is....being a black woman.

I think it makes some uncomfortable and then there has to be a post-hatred rationalization of why they feel that way, rather than an actual acknowledgement of that personal dislike. It's one reason why I think (aside from money) that YT videos and such continue chatting about how much they hate Discovery or Lower Decks or whatnot; it's a rationalizing away an uncomfortable feeling regarding Michael or Mariner without actually acknowledging the core of the issue.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I like Mariner, she is quickly tracking towards being one of my favorite Trek characters. Michael Burnham? She feels like such a missed opportunity.

I like her just fine. She's a bit overexposed with everything huge apparently swirling around her but I love her relationship with Tilly, Saru, and the Empress. My only thought is its weird to make the Stoic Spock-type as your dramatic lead. Still, I am looking forward to Season 3.

One of the stupidest things I've read is saying she and Mariner are identically "mean and unlikable" which is ridiculous because the two have diamatrically opposite personalities. Mariner is the mother of all extroverts while Burnham is so internal it hurts.

 

[BillJ]

Still, I am looking forward to Season 3.

With the change in venue, I’ll give it a whirl. Never know what might catch my interest.

 

[Charles Phipps]

With the change in venue, I’ll give it a whirl. Never know what might catch my interest.

I like that it seems to be adapting Gene's notes for Andromeda.

 

[SolarisOne]

♫ All the negative people
Where do they all come from?
All the negative people
Where do they all belong? ♫

 

[NCC-73515]

Eh, it's a swear word humanity has been using for the last 400ish years. The idea that its not going to be present is, well, dumb.

23rd century people not using 20th century colorful metaphors is canon though, like it or not.

 

[BillJ]

23rd century people not using 20th century colorful metaphors is canon though, like it or not.

I’d say it is canon that the crowd Kirk and Spock run with don’t use them.

 

[fireproof78]

23rd century people not using 20th century colorful metaphors is canon though, like it or not.

Except for all the times they do.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Fuck is not a twentieth century word. It's been around since the Middle Ages.

 

[Campe]

Yes, it is a Middle Age word. But the idea it will be out of popular use by the year is ridiculous. Words stay in the vernacular.

 

[The Wormhole]

Yes, it is a Middle Age word. But the idea it will be out of popular use by the year is ridiculous. Words stay in the vernacular.

Don't you know? Modern language does not get used in the future! Gene's Vision! Everyone uses stilted and dry descriptives because that is Gene's Vision! That is Futurism! That is Star Trek! Gene's Vision! Gene's Vision! Gene's Vision!

Gene's Motherfucking Vision.

 

[NCC-73515]

I’d say it is canon that the crowd Kirk and Spock run with don’t use them.

Yes, it could be that regular people curse more. It's still odd that Spock is so surprised about it then XD

Fuck is not a twentieth century word. It's been around since the Middle Ages.

TVH is set in 1986, they point out how much more cursing is around then.

Except for all the times they do.

List them here, and let's see how colorful they are


Also, anyone remember these exchanges from canon?

KALO: Okay, you three, let's see you petrify.
SPOCK: Sir, would you mind explaining that statement, please?

KALO: Don't give me those baby blue eyes.
MCCOY: What?

DATA: He's on ice.
CRUSHER: Pardon?
DATA: He's being grilled.
CRUSHER: What is he, a fish?

SERGEANT: You're a pretty hep lookin' broad.
CRUSHER: Is that good?

DATA: Commander, a low mileage pit woofie?
RIKER: This time you've got me. I haven't a clue.

So no matter how people wanna believe language doesn't change between the 20th and 23rd/24th century, TOS and TNG (and TVH) disagree. It's canon

 

[BillJ]

Yes, it could be that regular people curse more. It's still odd that Spock is so surprised about it then XD

Spock grew up on Vulcan. They had their own set of colorful metaphors.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Yes, it could be that regular people curse more. It's still odd that Spock is so surprised about it then XD


TVH is set in 1986, they point out how much more cursing is around then.


List them here, and let's see how colorful they are


Also, anyone remember these exchanges from canon?











So no matter how people wanna believe language doesn't change between the 20th and 23rd/24th century, TOS and TNG (and TVH) disagree. It's canon

They said fuck in Discovery and Picard. They are canon as well. QED.

 

[NCC-73515]

They said fuck in Discovery and Picard. They are canon as well. QED.

So looking at continuity, people started cursing again in the 2250s, then stopped in the 2260s, and picked it up again in the 2390s XD

 

[Bad Thoughts]

So looking at continuity, people started cursing again in the 2250s, then stopped in the 2260s, and picked it up again in the 2390s XD

Why not. Continuity is not canon. They are different concepts.

 

[BillJ]

So looking at continuity, people started cursing again in the 2250s, then stopped in the 2260s, and picked it up again in the 2390s XD

Data said “shit” in 2371.