Pike era Enterprise....

[Warped9]

This is somewhat premature because I'm presently deep in shuttlecraft stuff, but as I've mentioned elsewhere I do intend to tackle the Pike era Enterprise at some point down the road.

I plan on approaching it much as I have the shuttlecraft, as a "real" ship rather than just replicating filming miniatures. That said I don't intend covering quite the extent of ground already well covered by folks like aridas, CRA and Shaw. Indeed I plan to draw upon their insight (forgive the unintended pun).

I do want to acknowledge the differences between the 33in. filming miniature and the 11 footer, most likely by some historical backstory. Something along the lines that the 33in. version is what the U.S.S. Constitution looked like initially and then changes were made while the Enterprise was constructed. I also plan to include some details that weren't initially on the 11 footer such as the nacelle inboard detailing, lighting and such. I don't plan on including the the grid lines added later as I have some notion just now percolating to explain their presence on the Kirk era ship.

Beyond the primary exterior views and a longitudinal cross section view I plan on focusing only on certain interior areas such as bridge, transporter room, hangar area and perhaps a few others. I could also detail uniforms and some field equipment.

Basically this would be less a set of general plans and perhaps more an abbreviated reference guide to Cage era Starfleet tech.

Thoughts anyone?

 

[Kemaiku]

I for one would be interested in seeing this project go ahead. There were definitely major changes made to the bridge and warp nacelles just on the outside, I can see there being significant internal changes. So a guide to the major differences, like bridge deckplans, a modified layout for the engineering section (did we see it during The Cage?) and a few uniform designs would be pretty cool.

 

[Shaw]

I also plan to include some details that weren't initially on the 11 footer such as the nacelle inboard detailing, lighting and such.

How much additional detailing are you considering? Are you planning on going all the way up to the WNMHGB version or something just short?

In my attempts to document the 11 foot model as it was at the end of December 1964 I've run into the issue of there being few photos of it in that state. Beyond the standard The Cage angles (from the one shot in which it appeared in the pilot, and was used a number of times after), these are some of the best reference images I've collected to date.

click to enlarge​

And in the spirit of this thread... Spock in command of The Cage era Enterprise!

 

[uniderth]

This has also been a project I've wanted to tackle. I've wanted to even design a April-era version.

 

[Warped9]

Shaw, where did you get those amazing pics of the E? Wonderful! Any larger versions?

I'd like to know how much detail differences (besides the contours of the saucer) existed between the 33in. and the 11 footer. And, no, I'm not interested in the WNMHGB version. The main detailing I wish to include are the nacelle inboard detailing and the running lights that weren't initially there, but obviously should have been. And was the nacelle detailing on the 33in. different from that eventually added to the 11 footer for TOS' production run? If so then I might be inclined to lean towards the 33 incher's detailing except for the saucer contour.

Other major detail differences between Pike and Kirk era E:
- upper saucer markings
- bridge dome
- nacelle fore and aft end caps
- deflector dish
- window placement
- hangar door detailing
- upper and lower sensor domes
- running lights

In particular the lower saucer running lights are set a bit aftwards and not directly under the upper running lights as they are on the Kirk era E. There are some details on the production version of the ship that I believe really need to be retroactively added to the Cage version for it to be more "real."

 

[ThomasModels]

First pilot had no lamps. Second pilot's saucer bottom running lights were placed in the middle of the groups of three near the red pinstrips.

Warped9, this is a fascinating idea. I have a proposal for you in regards to this if interested. It may fit in with other a couple of your other endeavors. I'd be please to discuss via email.

Thanks!

 

[Warped9]

^^ I've PM'd my email to you.

The two pics that follow are Photoshop retouches of the AA replica of the Pike era E. They're not definitive, of course, of what I finally have in mind, but they do indicate something of where my head is at on this project.

My general approach is this: Imagine for a moment that NBC decided to go with GR's first pilot as the template for the series. With more production money now available they can now elaborate on their big 11 ft. filming miniature. They elect to add some of the detailing that we see on the WNMHGB version as well as some of what we saw on the TOS production version, but the model still stays recognizably as "The Cage" version. This includes pretty much the interior sets as well and most any ship sets forthcoming--the ship will have a slightly different aesthetic than the more familiar TOS version. So now they have to have a working ship miniature that no longer looks static and must look more "real" for series production.

With this general concept in mind here are my major references sources:
- "The Cage" first pilot
- WNMHGB second pilot (to some extent)
- TOS (predominatly first season for anything that looks kinda retro and perhaps a bit inconsistent with whatever else we see)
- The Making Of Star Trek
- U.S.S. Enterprise renders by Alan Sinclair, Charles Casimiro, Captain Robert April, aridas and Shaw, particularly in regards to interior layouts (although I do intend to add my two cents worth in regards to the hangar facilities for sure).

I'll also be considering real science concepts as well as reasonable science fiction ideas. One note: in the mid '60s the idea of "The Cage's" lasers fell out of favour because it was then believed that lasers would never be able to do what they were being shown to do. Ironically real science seems to indicate what decent contemporary science fiction literature is depicting that lasers can actually be very powerful and effective at doing what SF has sometimes shown them doing. On that point then it isn't inconceivable that the Pike era E had powerful ship mounted lasers that were later supplanted by even more powerful phasers. Surely something to discuss.

What I will not consider:
- any retconning from the Trek films beyond TMP
- any retconning from TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT or Trek XI

This certainly means no contemporary Trek technobabble or terminology.

In some respects the Pike era ship might have seemed more advanced than the Kirk era version and I wish to maintain that sensibility.

Here is something else to ponder, something I drew up a few years ago.

Female variant introduced shortly after events seen in "The Cage."

Commanding Officer's alternatives.

 

[Shaw]

Shaw, where did you get those amazing pics of the E? Wonderful! Any larger versions?

Sadly, no... those were the best. Some were originally part of the collection displayed at the Star Trek History site, but it's down currently so I can't send you to their site for viewing them. The really nice one in the upper right corner I've had for a while, and don't recall where I found it.

And was the nacelle detailing on the 33in. different from that eventually added to the 11 footer for TOS' production run? If so then I might be inclined to lean towards the 33 incher's detailing except for the saucer contour.

Well, the original 33 inch model was as plane on the inner nacelles as the 11 foot model was for The Cage. But yes, when detailing was added to both models it was different between the two of them. This is one of the best images of that inner nacelle detailing...

Click to enlarge​

Additionally, the rear nacelle features seen on the 33 inch model in The Cage (and were part of Jefferies' original construction plans) were not there on the 11 foot model (which was featureless , as seen in the images posted earlier). One has to keep in mind that it seems that they were rushing to get the 11 foot model ready for filming, and by that time they had already decided to use the 33 inch model for most of the effects shots (even though it was never intended to make it to screen), so they knew that the 11 foot model was only going to be in the money shot to zoom in on the bridge. There was no need to finish the rear nacelle detailing for that shot as the camera wouldn't catch it.

 

[Warped9]

^^ Looking at that above pic reminds me how much I desperately want a 1/350 scale TOS E model.

I'll also be considering real science concepts as well as reasonable science fiction ideas. One note: in the mid '60s the idea of "The Cage's" lasers fell out of favour because it was then believed that lasers would never be able to do what they were being shown to do. Ironically real science seems to indicate what decent contemporary science fiction literature is depicting that lasers can actually be very powerful and effective at doing what SF has sometimes shown them doing. On that point then it isn't inconceivable that the Pike era E had powerful ship mounted lasers that were later supplanted by even more powerful phasers. Surely something to discuss.

I thought sure someone would argue/debate this, particularly since one flaw with even very advanced and powerful laser systems as weapons is that they're limited to the speed of light and consequently seriously limited for a FTL starship that is supposedly capable of combat at FTL speeds.

 

[uniderth]

I always figures early Star Trek lasers were a much more primative version of phaser. Laser was just used as a term for this weapon and not meant to mean LASER as in "light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation".

 

[Shaw]

I haven't had a lot of time to re-read this thread (specially as you added stuff to a previous post so I hadn't seen it yet). On the uniforms, you don't seem to have this one...

Click to enlarge​

I'm currently trying to reverse engineer a Cage hand laser. I had one once (well, I had the back half of one that I got in trade for restoring a model back in the early 1990s), and I remember the curves pretty well.

Also, if you haven't talked to Thomas yet, you are missing out! He has been doing some great Pike era stuff recently (astonishing stuff ).

 

[Bernard Guignard]

I haven't had a lot of time to re-read this thread (specially as you added stuff to a previous post so I hadn't seen it yet). On the uniforms, you don't seem to have this one...

Click to enlarge​

I'm currently trying to reverse engineer a Cage hand laser. I had one once (well, I had the back half of one that I got in trade for restoring a model back in the early 1990s), and I remember the curves pretty well.

Also, if you haven't talked to Thomas yet, you are missing out! He has been doing some great Pike era stuff recently (astonishing stuff ).

It Looks like a Variation on a Pullover Military style Sweater to me
which would be nice.

 

[Whorfin]

Warped9,

I would be very interested in anything you do with this era, and I would be glad to pitch in as much as I can.

In terms of the 33" model, its probably better left as an earlier class of starship -- which is how I intend to honor it -- rather than have it as the original version of 1701 (or 1700). I see the upgrade path as (The Cage/WNMHGB/Production) -- three conversions over almost twenty years is more than enough for me.

I haven't had a lot of time to re-read this thread (specially as you added stuff to a previous post so I hadn't seen it yet). On the uniforms, you don't seem to have this one...

Good catch, and one that I've been wondering about. For me there are four obvious possibilities for the "jacket/vest":

1. Cage era "Command Alternate, Male"
2. Cage era "Dress Uniform" (it is an alien swarree (sp?) after all, and it seems to have epaulets -- if I have the terminology right).
3. Cage era "Command Jacket", indoor (i.e., like later TNG Picard wore).
4. Cage era Light Field Jacket (The Cage already has a field jacket) (3 & 4 may be the same thing)

Don't forget the Charlie X costume. It appears to be an earlier Starfleet uniform or possible field jacket. It seems closer to the TOS "Command Alternate" wrap around than this does. Presumably it either belongs to the Robert April era, Pike era, or WNMHGB era and somebody dug it out of storage for Charlie (why replicate an obsolete uniform?) or Charlie picked it himself out of a database, or used his powers to make it. For both uniforms, note the Enterprise "arrowhead" indicating ship of origin.

I'm currently trying to reverse engineer a Cage hand laser. I had one once (well, I had the back half of one that I got in trade for restoring a model back in the early 1990s), and I remember the curves pretty well.

I may be able to help you out on this, though I have no original materials myself, assuming you are interested.

Also, if you haven't talked to Thomas yet, you are missing out! He has been doing some great Pike era stuff recently (astonishing stuff ).

Publicly available?

 

[Shaw]

Don't forget the Charlie X costume. It appears to be an earlier Starfleet uniform or possible field jacket.

I won't be forgetting that jacket.

I may be able to help you out on this, though I have no original materials myself, assuming you are interested.

I'm always interested... but as I was planning on sculpting the handle from my memory of having possessed an original for about 6 years, I'm curious what additional aid you could provide.

Publicly available?

I don't know. I'm not sure how far along the project has gone and I generally keep things shared with me via e-mail or phone calls private. If Thomas was going to share his stuff, it is best to let him do so.

 

[Warped9]

I haven't had a lot of time to re-read this thread (specially as you added stuff to a previous post so I hadn't seen it yet). On the uniforms, you don't seem to have this one...

Click to enlarge​

I was focusing on regular duty wear at the time I drew those up and hadn't gotten around to alternate field or dress wear yet.

I still like the idea of the 33 incher as the original Constitution that was later refit into the same configuration as the Enterprise. It just seems to make things a little more interesting. Furthermore my backstory/continuity interprets the "official" timeline somewhat differently.

 

[Sarvek]

I love where this project is going. It is to bad that we did not get any more episodes with Capt. Pike and this crew of the Enterprise.

 

[Praetor]

I love this too. I think the framework has been set up quite well for this to take shape nicely.

 

[ThomasModels]

This era of Trek hasn't really been explored - yet.

For those interested, I'd like to direct you to:
http://www.startrekorigins.com/forum/

This is the forum for Star Trek Origins. It is a pre-Pike era series of shorts, 5 to 10 minute single acts that will build up to a full episode.

As it is set in that unexplored timeline, many things have to be designed from scratch. Things such as phasers, communicators, tricorders, the ship, costumes, corridors, sets, alien props, ship designs will be created based on the design aesthetics of things seen in 'The Cage'. Something this thread directly addresses. This thread will be one to watch!

We will be and are following the set and prop designs as seen in TOS using colors and shapes seen in the first pilot. We have our ship finalized along with phasers, communicators, several other props and of course the bridge. We are about to update the public forum with details and photos of some of the stuff created for this series of shorts. As a teaser, here are a couple of images of some of the stuff made so far:
http://thomasmodels.com/webstuff/pp39.jpg
http://thomasmodels.com/webstuff/comm61.jpg
http://thomasmodels.com/webstuff/sfmc26.jpg
http://thomasmodels.com/webstuff/dockroom91.jpg
http://thomasmodels.com/webstuff/tibpic079.jpg

You are invited to check out the forum and join the memberlist. Upon joining you will have access to photos and other things not seen by guests. Check it out! And if you have design suggestions or other contributions to assist in the making of these films, please stop by, sign up, and say hi!

Sorry about hijacking you thread, Ray. I hope we can come up with something to work in this yet unexplored era of Trek!

 

[Captain Robert April]

Just registered (a site like that, registering was a moral imperative).

Has a thread been started over in Fan Productions?

 

[Warped9]

^^ I'm heartened by the interest in this project. For now, though, the meat of this thread will have to be primarily discussion because I've aa long way to go with shuttlecraft stuff before I can address rendering images for this project.

However, I could dig up my continuity/timeline to illustrated a large part of where my head is at.