To BECOME cool..again

[RobertScorpio]

I think Star Trek must find away to connect with a new generations of fans. This is an old cliche, I know, but it is true. For a little while there, in the early-mid 90s, it was cool to be into Star Trek. But now? Its back to its back to a small group of fans...

Now here is the kicker, for me at least. I think the Ship in Space formula, as we have seen it, has been done to death. From TOS to TNG to Voy to Enterprise to Firefly to BSG to Andromeda....yes, I know, some of you think that BSG was/is a hit show, and that Firefly was too. And since fragmented TV ratings is where we are, a core of 2million viewers is good. I disagree.

ENTERPRISE, to me, had a very good concept but it was done in the wrong way. A Starship closer to our time period I thought was very smart thing to do. I think as TREK shows get further in space, TNG-VOY, they lose their connection with us. I think a BIG chunk of TOS's staying power is because it doesn't seem too far beyond where we are now. People could identify with the show because of that.

And when I mean 'people' I don't mean "us" Trek fans. I mean the common person out there..and it is the common person that keeps TOS #1 Trek show, in terms of pop-culture. ENTERPRISE had a great idea, in trying to connect with that part of TOS. But with in four or five episodes the crew of ENTERPRISE were seasoned pros. WRONG WRONG WRONG headed idea.

If they put out another TREK show that takes place a hundred years after Picard's time that show, I believe, will flop. Especially if its on the NCC-1701-H or something like that. It might attract the same 2million folks who were watching Enterprise, but that is not enough.

Star Trek; Frank Grayson was an idea I had to try and bridge that divide. A crew of people from our time thrown aboard a real Uss Enterprise from Kirk's show. The humans would be more like the people 'common' people come in contact with. But it would also have a scifi element as well. A rawness that ENTERPRISE strived for but never got right.

No, Frank Grayson isn't the answer..but I think a show that couples characters that a new generation of fans can relate to, AND the scifi elements that define TREK, is the way to go.

I may be wrong...but I think I'm right.

Rob
Scorpio

 

[JNG]

I think the Ship in Space formula, as we have seen it, has been done to death.

Your idiosyncratic capitalization yields lulz:

"We have to get the Dilithium Crystals for the Warp Drive so the Romulan Ship doesn't yadda yadda"=lulz

Enterprise didn't go 4 seasons instead of 7 because it was set on a "Ship in Space." Ratings were good at the outset. People hear "Star Trek" and think of ships in space. Some Mary or Larry Sues "from our time" running around is absolutely the #1 tired, overdone and rightfully mocked "solution" to a problem that doesn't exist.

TOS seemed unimaginably beyond us in many ways, but the characters were somewhat more emotionally accessible than on most of the spinoffs. They ended up with some sort of credibility that came from a skillful combination of stylized acting and writing that balanced their traits against one another and offered chances to shine. You need those points of entry so you can go along with that week's super-cool sci-fi scenario...and you especially need them on those weeks when things aren't so super-cool. You're definitely right about that...but there's no reason those believable people who we actually want to watch have to be from our time. Their needing to hear a speech about what transporters can't do and so forth ("you mean this...how do you pronounce it...'w-a-r-p d-r-i-ve' allows...*gasp* FASTER THAN LIGHT TRAVEL??? My good sir, that is impossible!" Yawn) won't be any more compelling than it was on Star Trek: Enterprise (even if you loved it there...would it have punch this time around?). Well-written and -performed natives of the future can serve as characters well enough without MORE time travel or whatever getting in the mix.

Also, Trek future people kind of look down on those "from our time." How can we swallow the idea that they'd turn a starship over to them?

BTW, they are doing a TOS remake movie...from your post I figured I had better ask if you heard about this

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

I think the Ship in Space formula, as we have seen it, has been done to death.

Enterprise didn't go 4 seasons instead of 7 because it was set on a "Ship in Space." Ratings were good at the outset. People hear "Star Trek" and think of ships in space.

Exactly. There was nothing wrong with the basic premise of ENT or VOY, the two most maligned series. In fact, both seemed to me to be trying to get back to a more TOS feel. However, the execution of those premises left a lot to be desired for a great many viewers.

The solution isn't changing the premise of the entire franchise, but just making sure it is executed well. Which means good writers, good stories, good characters and good actors.

 

[RobertScorpio]

And why a TOS remake? Because, after all this time, TOS is the TREK standard that all other Trek shows are held up to. I think Abrams will do somethings that will anger Trek fans, as he tries to connect with a more broad base audience. In fact, if this move comes out and it is totally loved by all Trek fans then it did not serve its purpose.

Gorkon's message to Kirk, just before Gorkon beamed back to his ship, about change was right on target. I think TREK fans need to listen to what he said as we get closer to this movie's release date.

And as for ENTERPRISE? that show had good ratings at the star because it DID promise to be more closer to our time in terms of technology and characters. It totally went down hill the moment that crew appeared to be yet another TREK crew in space. You could have interchanged most of them by the end of the first season with their TNG counteparts and not have known the difference..that is where that show went wrong...IMO

Rob

 

[RobertScorpio]

I think the Ship in Space formula, as we have seen it, has been done to death.

Enterprise didn't go 4 seasons instead of 7 because it was set on a "Ship in Space." Ratings were good at the outset. People hear "Star Trek" and think of ships in space.

Exactly. There was nothing wrong with the basic premise of ENT or VOY, the two most maligned series. In fact, both seemed to me to be trying to get back to a more TOS feel. However, the execution of those premises left a lot to be desired for a great many viewers.

The solution isn't changing the premise of the entire franchise, but just making sure it is executed well. Which means good writers, good stories, good characters and good actors.

I would agree with that statement...25 years ago. But there have been over 700+ hours of SHIP IN SPACE Trek show, not to mention BSG-FIREFLY-ANDROMEDA. None of these shows, none them, have been able to come close to TNG ratings because TNG came at a time when there had been nothing else accept BSG, 1970s version, and Buck Rogers. SHIPS IN SPACE has been done do death. They need to come up with a new concept. I mean, how many people do you know, outside of scifi fans, that are clamoring to see the next installment of BSG? Or are demanding a Firefly sequel. Very few because SHIP IN SPACE shows do not crossover anymore because the general public is, sorry to say, sick of them.

 

[Wonderlust King]

...

Now here is the kicker, for me at least. I think the Ship in Space formula, as we have seen it, has been done to death

Then you must not like Star Trek very much. Except a DS9 clone I don't see any other way you could do Star Trek, sure the things you propose may be titled star trek but they really aren't Star Trek, they are merely shows titled Star Trek. You have basically said the same thing in all your other threads in this forum. Your "stretching treks legs" thread was almost identical to this and I reply the same way. The only way you can have another Star Trek show is to have it on a ship exploring new frontiers. Granted you can make some changes to that ship to make it new and different, for example, make it a science vessel, make it a diplomatic vessel, but it won't be Star Trek unless they are on a ship in space exploring new frontiers. DS9 was great but another show on a station will just feel like a clone.

 

[Penta]

Maybe it'd be a good idea to let Trek sleep on TV for a few more years.

 

[RobertScorpio]

...

Now here is the kicker, for me at least. I think the Ship in Space formula, as we have seen it, has been done to death

Then you must not like Star Trek very much. Except a DS9 clone I don't see any other way you could do Star Trek, sure the things you propose may be titled star trek but they really aren't Star Trek, they are merely shows titled Star Trek. You have basically said the same thing in all your other threads in this forum. Your "stretching treks legs" thread was almost identical to this and I reply the same way. The only way you can have another Star Trek show is to have it on a ship exploring new frontiers. Granted you can make some changes to that ship to make it new and different, for example, make it a science vessel, make it a diplomatic vessel, but it won't be Star Trek unless they are on a ship in space exploring new frontiers. DS9 was great but another show on a station will just feel like a clone.

I agree...totally. What i am saying is that there should be no more STAR TREK TV series for at least a decade, maybe two. I mean, heck, it took nearly 20 years for TNG to bring TREK back on TV. The hunger grew for it during the lull between 69-87. They have made up for that lull with 7 years of TNG, 7 years of DS9, 7 years of voyager and 4 years of ENTERPRISE. Unless they have something new to do, and DS9 seems to be the last original thought from TREK producers, then they should just stop and concentrate on movies only...

Star Trek on TV again? I think the ratings, even for DS9, prove that there ain't no more golden eggs coming from that chicken anymore..

Rob

 

[Wowbagger]

I would agree with that statement...25 years ago. But there have been over 700+ hours of SHIP IN SPACE Trek show, not to mention BSG-FIREFLY-ANDROMEDA.

Ah, but you forget... no one watched any of those shows. The people who didn't watch them can't possibly be sick of them, and the ones who did seemed to keep a relatively stable core audience... until the floor fell out on Enterprise's ratings.

I really don't think we're facing an oversaturation problem. I think we just have to deal with the fact that there's no Trek on TV right now because the writing during the last six years of televised Trek was subpar.

 

[Wonderlust King]

...

Now here is the kicker, for me at least. I think the Ship in Space formula, as we have seen it, has been done to death

Then you must not like Star Trek very much. Except a DS9 clone I don't see any other way you could do Star Trek, sure the things you propose may be titled star trek but they really aren't Star Trek, they are merely shows titled Star Trek. You have basically said the same thing in all your other threads in this forum. Your "stretching treks legs" thread was almost identical to this and I reply the same way. The only way you can have another Star Trek show is to have it on a ship exploring new frontiers. Granted you can make some changes to that ship to make it new and different, for example, make it a science vessel, make it a diplomatic vessel, but it won't be Star Trek unless they are on a ship in space exploring new frontiers. DS9 was great but another show on a station will just feel like a clone.

I agree...totally. What i am saying is that there should be no more STAR TREK TV series for at least a decade, maybe two. I mean, heck, it took nearly 20 years for TNG to bring TREK back on TV. The hunger grew for it during the lull between 69-87. They have made up for that lull with 7 years of TNG, 7 years of DS9, 7 years of voyager and 4 years of ENTERPRISE. Unless they have something new to do, and DS9 seems to be the last original thought from TREK producers, then they should just stop and concentrate on movies only...

Star Trek on TV again? I think the ratings, even for DS9, prove that there ain't no more golden eggs coming from that chicken anymore..

Rob

I think what people want is a good ship in space Star Trek show. Enterprise and Voyager were questionable at best, and didn't have a whole lot of appeal to non-trekkies. They really haven't had one since tng which has been gone for almost 15 years. I think the timing will be perfect sometime in the year following the movie.

 

[cardinal biggles]

I agree...totally. What i am saying is that there should be no more STAR TREK TV series for at least a decade, maybe two. I mean, heck, it took nearly 20 years for TNG to bring TREK back on TV. The hunger grew for it during the lull between 69-87. They have made up for that lull with 7 years of TNG, 7 years of DS9, 7 years of voyager and 4 years of ENTERPRISE. Unless they have something new to do, and DS9 seems to be the last original thought from TREK producers, then they should just stop and concentrate on movies only...

Star Trek on TV again? I think the ratings, even for DS9, prove that there ain't no more golden eggs coming from that chicken anymore..

Rob

So which is it? No Trek on TV until 2018? Or should Paramount rush out and commission this stuff you keep throwing up at us?

 

[RobertScorpio]

I agree...totally. What i am saying is that there should be no more STAR TREK TV series for at least a decade, maybe two. I mean, heck, it took nearly 20 years for TNG to bring TREK back on TV. The hunger grew for it during the lull between 69-87. They have made up for that lull with 7 years of TNG, 7 years of DS9, 7 years of voyager and 4 years of ENTERPRISE. Unless they have something new to do, and DS9 seems to be the last original thought from TREK producers, then they should just stop and concentrate on movies only...

Star Trek on TV again? I think the ratings, even for DS9, prove that there ain't no more golden eggs coming from that chicken anymore..

Rob

So which is it? No Trek on TV until 2018? Or should Paramount rush out and commission this stuff you keep throwing up at us?

No new SHIP BASED TREK
And yes..EVERY one of my ideas...$$$

And to be more to the point? Any new TREK show that appealed to the small, and ever growing smaller, cadre of Star Trek fans ONLY would not be a good idea, or good for the future of TREK...There is no success in this world with out risk. Star Trek has played it safe far to long now...time to offend the fanbase, appeal to some of it, and more importantly, bring in new blood. Until TREK TV does that? It remains fringe with no growth.


Rob

 

[cardinal biggles]

I hope the toilets at Paramount can handle all the money they'll be flushing.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I hope the toilets at Paramount can handle all the money they'll be flushing.

I think RICK BERMAN has the entire restroom clogged up.

Rob

 

[cardinal biggles]

Well, if it's been three years since the end of Enterprise and the toilets are still clogged, I don't think it would be wise for Paramount to make the situation worse.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I know where you are coming from. New ideas are always hard to accept. The Pope just admited the world was round in the past decade. But, alas, I feel your pain.

Rob

 

[cardinal biggles]

Star Trek: Boston Legal, Star Trek: Professional Wrestling, and Star Trek: CSI are not new ideas. They're taking two shows, putting them in a blender, and hoping what comes out doesn't look like shit purée.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Star Trek: Boston Legal, Star Trek: Professional Wrestling, and Star Trek: CSI are not new ideas. They're taking two shows, putting them in a blender, and hoping what comes out doesn't look like shit purée.

Star Trek CSI wasn't my idea, though something like that could be cool.

As for putting our shit puree? Hmmmmmmm...I think TREK is in it's current state of coma because of what has come before...

But don't worry. It is only natural to fear that which we do not know. Imagine the first caveman who tamed fire...or the person who saw a car for the first time and said it would never go over big....Somtimes you have to set your sights higher than just being..average.

But slap another crew on some ship in the 24th or 25th century, turn it into a TV show and no one, outside this fanbase, is going to care. I think they have pretty much been telling you this since Voyager's premier. Yawwwwwnnn......

Star Trek needs to get past the yawn factor.

And as I said, when I started this post, any new show that appealed to a majority of the fans of TREK would not be wise. It would be like, oh, putting out a Firefly movie and hoping Firefly fans would like it...well..they did...but no one else saw that movie....

Trek needs to try new angles, like DS9 tried to do. But just another ship...just another crew of humans/aliens going to worlds with new bumpy headed aliens each week just doesn't work any more. Or hadn't you noticed.

Rob

 

[cardinal biggles]

Your ideas are no better than Berman's ideas, they just have the novelty of being different from the "crew on a starship" format.

But please, by all means, keep deflecting attention from your crappy ideas by comparing me to a caveman and a member of the Flat Earth Society. Doesn't change the fact that you keep flooding this forum with your drivel. (I'm sure Lindley appreciates it, though, otherwise he'd have nothing to read in here.)

 

[Kubwulf]

New ideas are hard to come by. Especially in Trek. However, there are avenues that haven't been discussed. The ship in space formula CAN work. If done right. There are different "right ways" to do this too.

Keep the standard Capt and Crew and follow exploits a la TOS, TNG, VOY, ENT.

Look at a non-human crew. The Federation is a huge conglomerate of planets and species. Why are all the shows centered around Human crews? Change it up. Make Humans the minority on a vessel.

Instead of DS9 clone... Make it a StarBase and follow the engineering crew as they have to fix the ships that come in for regular maintenance.

Section 31. What plans have they laid? Why? Who are they?

What about a small science vessel? One family perhaps? Two parents and the kid. The sitcoms of the 80s and early 90s all focused on a family. Put it in space. Crodile Dundee in Space... hmmmm... NAH!!!!


My point is that the current formula, while not bad, isn't great. It IS overdone. DS9 was great because of it overall arcing story. The ship in space formula really didn't have that. Not to go off topic but VOY didn't have that. They had a goal. Make it back to Federation Space. No truly arcing stories. The character development wasn't bad, but it was weak on all characters. Kes, 7 of 9, and the Dr are the ones that showed the most growth in my opinion.


Doing something new, that has an overall arc is what I think is needed. Fans will watch it regardless unless it absolutely blows. But something new is what is needed to get more people into the show.