Will Lower Decks ever promote Harry Kim?

[137th Gebirg]

IIRC, if someone doesn't regularly advance grades, they're eventually mustered out.

This is IRL, of course, and "Starfleet isn't a military organization".

 

[DonIago]

Well, we don't know how long Picard was a Lt. JG either, but that's still some advancement from ensign.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

IIRC, if someone doesn't regularly advance grades, they're eventually mustered out.

This is IRL, of course, and "Starfleet isn't a military organization".

It certainly has legal authority under an equivalent of US Title 10, by I don't recall any references to a "Federation Department of Defence", "Federation Security of Defence" or similar, which does allow for some limited flexibilities on the technicalities.

Rank progression appears to more like what we'd expect from a "national security organisation" like the FBI.

Well, we don't know how long Picard was a Lt. JG either, but that's still some advancement from ensign.

Agreed.

My issue with Tapesty!Picard is not so much that he's an Assistant Astrophysics Officer and more the fact that he's on the flagship at all.

 

[Jayson1]

I wonder whether Starfleet has regulations or guidelines around handling ensigns who never meet the qualifications for promotion, or whether they're fine with long-term ensigns.

Someone has work in waste extraction!

 

[DonIago]

Someone has work in waste extraction!

That's what cadets and Neelix are for!

 

[Oddish]

I agree we need to stop making jokes about him being a Ensign. It is time he is busted back down to cadet!

If it were possible to throw a pillow at someone's face over the Internet, you would be spitting goose down right now.

I wonder whether Starfleet has regulations or guidelines around handling ensigns who never meet the qualifications for promotion, or whether they're fine with long-term ensigns.

If they had made Harry the sort of officer who rated such, that would have been fine. Starfleet might prefer the best and the brightest, but it's going to have the occasional officer who got in on politics alone and wouldn't know his keister from his elbow. Focusing on an officer with dismal stats (#198 out of 200 at the academy, held back his junior year) would be an interesting change.

Problem is, Harry was played as a competent, intelligent officer who was essential in the construction of the Delta Flyer, Seven's astrometrics lab, and Tom's warp-10 shuttle. So it doesn't fit.

IIRC, if someone doesn't regularly advance grades, they're eventually mustered out.

I think that pretty much all USN officers make at least senior lieutenant. After that, 80% make LCDR, 70% of those make CDR, and 50% of those (28% overall) make Captain. A very small percentage make admiral. But I don't think the lieutenants or LCDR's are booted before they do their 20 years.

Well, we don't know how long Picard was a Lt. JG either, but that's still some advancement from ensign

I still think Q was playing with Picard a little. An officer of Picard's competence would have gotten higher, even if he did play it safe. He'd have likely wound up as an LCDR counting stem bolts on some out of the way outpost orbiting a gas giant (so no shore leave).

My issue with Tapesty!Picard is not so much that he's an Assistant Astrophysics Officer and more the fact that he's on the flagship at all.

Agreed. An officer like that is Cerritos fodder. Also, why is Picard's crew all there? He handpicked Geordi and Riker, after all. A different captain might have made different selections.

Someone has work in waste extraction!

Now now now, this is the 24th century. Nobody pees anymore. Remember how confused Geordi was when Cochrane brought the subject up?

That's what cadets and Neelix are

Cadets are typically found at the academy. And while Neelix is more capable than he let's on, I don't think he could clean every john in Starfleet.

I think that if there were toilets in Starfleet (and there aren't because nobody pees anymore), they would be self cleaning.

 

[Tosk]

Now now now, this is the 24th century. Nobody pees anymore.

They started passing all their waste together though, like birds.

 

[The Wormhole]

Well, we don't know how long Picard was a Lt. JG either, but that's still some advancement from ensign.

Still, in the Tapestry timeline Picard would have been serving forty years and only gotten one promotion. That's definitely a lot longer than someone like that would last in an actual military.

My issue with Tapesty!Picard is not so much that he's an Assistant Astrophysics Officer and more the fact that he's on the flagship at all.

Indeed. Hell, simply being aboard a Galaxy class ship would imply he's the top in his field, but the flagship where people spend years waiting for a posting? Yeah, no way someone wasting away their career is going to end up there.

I think that if there were toilets in Starfleet (and there aren't because nobody pees anymore),

Actually, there are toilets on Starfleet ships. On a Voyager episode, it was mentioned several were "offline." This was especially problematic for the Bolian crew.

 

[Oddish]

Indeed. Hell, simply being aboard a Galaxy class ship would imply he's the top in his field, but the flagship where people spend years waiting for a posting? Yeah, no way someone wasting away their career is going to end up there.

And remember the Admiral's story about Picard in "Best of Both Worlds"... Cadet Picard passes up four upperclassmen to win the Academy marathon. Are we supposed to believe that a guy with that kind of grit and determination won't make something of himself in Starfleet, even without the renewed focus of a brush with death?

 

[Charles Phipps]

And remember the Admiral's story about Picard in "Best of Both Worlds"... Cadet Picard passes up four upperclassmen to win the Academy marathon. Are we supposed to believe that a guy with that kind of grit and determination won't make something of himself in Starfleet, even without the renewed focus of a brush with death?

Well, it's all Q playing "It's a Wonderful Life" with Picard.

I also feel like there could have been a two parter ending twist with Picard finding out that Lieutenant Picard might have ended up married and a family man if he had taken a less demanding career.

 

[Oddish]

I also feel like there could have been a two parter ending twist with Picard finding out that Lieutenant Picard might have ended up married and a family man if he had taken a less demanding career.

That could have been a great twist, actually... Picard marries Beverly, raises Wes as his own, and they have a couple more kids after that. It would even explain why Picard was on the Enterprise despite a less than stellar career: Starfleet probably makes at least some effort to keep families together.

 

[Jayson1]

Actually Picard still a good officer in that episode. It's just he wasn't a command officer. Like RIker said. "We would hate to loose you." He is only a lesser officer in the eyes of Picard himself because he has a very high standard for himself. It would have been a neat twist thought if he found out he might have been more happy without the burden of command. I suppose though they explored that idea already in "The Inner Light."

 

[Oddish]

I think there might be a fanfiction in that.

Just because a person isn't command caliber, they're still probably going to get more than one promotion. Picard's sheer years of expertise in astrophysics would have justified at least a ○○ on his collar.

And in any case, Harry Kim was lauded by both Janeway and Chakotay as an outstanding officer, one who got noticed. And officers who get noticed are supposed to get pips. So, a show that focused on realism would probably just say that Harry got skipped up to full lieutenant before Voyager's engines had cooled off in spacedock. But LD doesn't focus on realism, it's a show that bows to the absurd. And given that it launched dead-on at the Tuvix controversy, it could easily go after the Harry controversy as well.

Bottom line... if Harry doesn't feature in PRO S2, and is relegated to LD as a result... anything goes.

 

[Deks]

Damn! Even the mannequin based on him is stuck as an Ensign.

Because its an exhibit and supposed to show the crew as they were during their voyage.

 

[mithril]

perhaps Kim should have just asked for promotion?

 

[Tosk]

Or not denied it when asked about it directly.

Janeway "You've been in command on Voyager before."

Kim "On the night shift, for a few hours. It's not the same thing. You and Chakotay are always a couple of decks away, ready to take over if anything goes wrong. I've been on Voyager for almost seven years and I'm still an Ensign."

Janeway "If this is your way of bucking for a promotion."

Kim "No, no, I understand there's a command structure and that our circumstances are unique. But the fact is, if we were back home, I'd be a Lieutenant by now. Maybe even a Lieutenant Commander."

Janeway "You're pretty sure of yourself, aren't you?"

Even after seven years, Janeway is very "Ooh la la, someone thinks he's hot shit!" about the whole thing.

 

[Oddish]

perhaps Kim should have just asked for promotion?

Or not denied it when asked about it directly.

Maybe he should have done just that. Let's re-imagine that conversation...

Kim "On the night shift, for a few hours. It's not the same thing. You and Chakotay are always a couple of decks away, ready to take over if anything goes wrong. I've been on Voyager for almost seven years and I'm still an Ensign."

Janeway "If this is your way of bucking for a promotion..."

Kim "I'm not bucking for anything, captain. All I'm saying is that Tom got put back to lieutenant for a year of good work, and I've given you more than six. If we were back home, that would be more than enough to make me a senior Lieutenant by now. Maybe even a Lieutenant Commander."

Janeway "You're pretty sure of yourself, aren't you?"

Harry "I'm just going by what my personnel evaluations say."

A little tweaking to the denouement, and Janeway sees the light, and Neelix is asking Voyager's newest lieutenant what he wants for lunch.

 

[Darth Thanos]

He can also try the D'Vana Tendi maneuver

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[Oddish]

He actually sort of did.

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