The three worst?
1. Nemesis
2. Insurrection
3. TFF
1. Nemesis
2. Insurrection
3. TFF
What is the Best Star Trek film?
- Thread starter Argus Skyhawk
- Start date
1) TWOK
2) TUC/FC
3) TSFS/TVH/TMP
4) TFF/GENS
5) INS/NEMESIS
Don't get me started on that.
What? It was heroic. Sure, if it'd been Kirk, the knife blade would've bent on his plot armor, but I thought it was a good death. The only bad thing about David's death is that it's the end to the brief screentime of an important character in Kirk's life.
I hadn't thought of that. Quite correct, really. Although Sulu got his ship. Chekov, by contrast, was effectively demoted.
1) TWOK
2) TUC/FC
3) TSFS/TVH/TMP
4) TFF/GENS
5) INS/NEMESIS
Don't get me started on that.
What? It was heroic. Sure, if it'd been Kirk, the knife blade would've bent on his plot armor, but I thought it was a good death. The only bad thing about David's death is that it's the end to the brief screentime of an important character in Kirk's life.
Oh, it was definitely plot-driven. Harve Benett's concept of karma and all. It actually wasn't a bad death if it had to happen - sort of like how the Enterprise-D's explosion/saucer crash was pretty to look at even though it stank. But like you said, the character was interesting and an important aspect of the growth of Kirk in the movies.
See, this is why the death of David really annoys me. It signals that the new blood they'd introduced was effectively doomed, and the status quo and their 'demotions' were on the way - as were the regressions of the characters.
I'm surprised at all the votes for "Star Trek: The Motion Picture." Must be nostalgia from the oldies here; it felt long, the story dragged and the plot wasn't all that interesting... but I accept that I didn't watch it until many years after its release, so I'm viewing through a very difference lens. When I was a kid I remember finding "The Voyager Home" fascinating. Keep in mind I'm only 24.
The Wrath of Kahn was easily one of my favorite, but since I was forced to vote I went new age and voted for "First Contact," -- easily the most inspiring movie with all star performances from Brent Spiner and Patrick Stewart.
The Wrath of Kahn was easily one of my favorite, but since I was forced to vote I went new age and voted for "First Contact," -- easily the most inspiring movie with all star performances from Brent Spiner and Patrick Stewart.
1) TWOK
2) TUC/FC
3) TSFS/TVH/TMP
4) TFF/GENS
5) INS/NEMESIS
Don't get me started on that.
What? It was heroic. Sure, if it'd been Kirk, the knife blade would've bent on his plot armor, but I thought it was a good death. The only bad thing about David's death is that it's the end to the brief screentime of an important character in Kirk's life.
Oh, it was definitely plot-driven. Harve Benett's concept of karma and all. It actually wasn't a bad death if it had to happen - sort of like how the Enterprise-D's explosion/saucer crash was pretty to look at even though it stank. But like you said, the character was interesting and an important aspect of the growth of Kirk in the movies.
See, this is why the death of David really annoys me. It signals that the new blood they'd introduced was effectively doomed, and the status quo and their 'demotions' were on the way - as were the regressions of the characters.
I like David's death scene. It's better than being killed by a Skin of Evil malevolent hefty trash bag on a desert planet.... YARRR
TMP is intellectual, moody, epic and moving. Four things most of the others aren't even if they tried.
Not sure why people thought Insurrection was bad. It was like watching classic TNG as a two-part episode. I felt like I was back on board the Enterprise again with a story of human interest and the prime directive, Data's search for humanity and a theme of technology verses a simpler lifestyle. This was one of the best in the series.
I also think its a bit useless to compare TNG-era movies to TOS-era movies. They are vastly different.
TOS - The Undiscovered Country
TNG - First Contact
Those are my bottom lines.
TNG - First Contact
Those are my bottom lines.
Amen.
All this love for The Motion Picture boggles my mind! That movie stank! Even the cast and producers themselves admit that they didn't like it! Walter Koenig said when he watched it his heart sank and he was just happy that when all the reviews came out mentioning how bad it was, they didn't mention his name! It was boring and uninspired, and the characters were all upstaged by special effects.
It was, in many ways, to the original series crew what "Nemesis" was to the TNG crew. I'm not saying it was as bad as Nemesis (it wasn't) in comparing them, I'm referring to the fact that it was an attempt to turn Star Trek into something it wasn't in order to appeal to a wider audience. Nemesis was coming out when the James Bond franchise (Pierce Brosnan model) and Bourne movies were going strong and trying to compete with them as an action movie. The Motion Picture was trying to capture some of the recent Star Wars demographic by focusing on creative production design and state of the art special effects rather than the great dichotomy of down-to-earth humanity in the context of space adventures that had made the show so successful.
The next three Star Trek movies in the series succeeded by being what The Motion Picture was not. This has got to be nostalgia above everything else motivating this blind loyalty to one of the worst Star Trek movies. As mediocre as Generations, Insurrection, and Nemesis were, at least they tried to be movies with coherent plots and let the cast interact instead of shoving them to the side so the visual effects people could show off their budget.
It was, in many ways, to the original series crew what "Nemesis" was to the TNG crew. I'm not saying it was as bad as Nemesis (it wasn't) in comparing them, I'm referring to the fact that it was an attempt to turn Star Trek into something it wasn't in order to appeal to a wider audience. Nemesis was coming out when the James Bond franchise (Pierce Brosnan model) and Bourne movies were going strong and trying to compete with them as an action movie. The Motion Picture was trying to capture some of the recent Star Wars demographic by focusing on creative production design and state of the art special effects rather than the great dichotomy of down-to-earth humanity in the context of space adventures that had made the show so successful.
The next three Star Trek movies in the series succeeded by being what The Motion Picture was not. This has got to be nostalgia above everything else motivating this blind loyalty to one of the worst Star Trek movies. As mediocre as Generations, Insurrection, and Nemesis were, at least they tried to be movies with coherent plots and let the cast interact instead of shoving them to the side so the visual effects people could show off their budget.
The reason is Too Much Fun why so many are voting for TMP is that they see something that you don't see.
What you call boring and uninspired. They see an epic, intelligent and thought provoking film that does justice to the term science fiction and Star Trek..
What you call boring and uninspired. They see an epic, intelligent and thought provoking film that does justice to the term science fiction and Star Trek..
When I look at TMP, I see an ambitious film that tried to be those things, but ultimately failed. It is boring. It does have pacing issues. It does have incomplete and lackluster effects here and there. That said, I do understand that it means a great deal to some people. Does it have redeeming qualities? Of course. And favoritism is by definition subjective.
But in an objective, critical analysis, I would not call TMP a satisfying movie, simply because it sets up such high expectations for what it could be yet what it delivers is quite different.
But in an objective, critical analysis, I would not call TMP a satisfying movie, simply because it sets up such high expectations for what it could be yet what it delivers is quite different.
I can agree with the pacing issues, but I'll defend TMP as probably the best high concept of any Trek film (with the possible but unlikely exceptions of V and VI).
It's essentially the episode the Changeling, with much of the nonsense taken out of it.
It's essentially the episode the Changeling, with much of the nonsense taken out of it.
Oh put a fucking sock in it.
ST:TMP qualitatively craps all over most of the other soap-opera shit that followed for many of us. For me, the musical score, production design, effects work, acting, direction and scope simply elevates it far beyond the rest.
Some of us like the idea of Star Trek best when it's more science fictiony than Horse Opera-esque. Seriously, if I wanted character drama I'd watch a dozen other shows and movies that blow all Star Treks out of the water. I watched Star Trek because it's nominally science fiction.
