I have been rewatching DS9, Jadxia Dax dies, and I imagined her meeting the great giant cosmic Koala. Does this count?
What has the new series done to ruin Star Trek this time?
- Thread starter Ray Hardgrit
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Jadzia put up with Worf at his most Klingon. I think she could handle a koala.
I agree with the others in this thread saying that something done in a new Trek doesn't change the Treks before it, but something I don't like about new Star Trek is Discovery Klingons. I can respect the change and all that and I'm not going to be one of those people that goes, "they aren't real Klingons!" and I know they changed them from TOS to TNG and all that. I just... don't like Discovery's Klingons. They bug me.
"Enterprise" was such a mess of a prequel that I don't even want to go into it. But screwing up the Vulcans so badly that an entire three-episode story retconning it might take the cake. The revelation that Vulcans as we know them weren't themselves for the early years of their relationship with Earth is irritating.
Trying to make "Discovery" another prequel. Everything about the show felt perfect for a post-Voyager series. The fancy, intricate uniforms; the spore drive; the funky new ship design; the new aliens. But they had to jam it into the TOS era. And force the new alien villain race to be "Klingons." The level of ret-conning needed to explain why the spore drive and Spock's sister aren't mentioned anywhere else in the franchise is headache inducing. The show improved vastly when the setting shifted to the far future, but even so, the prequel damage was done.
The Lanthenites from SNW. Okay, so they wanted Pelia to be millenea old but from Earth. With her people being indistinguishable from El Aurians, it can't have been too hard to come up with a story explaining how a few El Aurians secrerly ended up on Earth ages ago. Not a huge deal, but it peeves me when "Star Trek" creates a new species for every little thing, instead of developing the species they already have. The galaxy is starting to feel crowded.
For positives, here are some retcons I do like:
Trying to make "Discovery" another prequel. Everything about the show felt perfect for a post-Voyager series. The fancy, intricate uniforms; the spore drive; the funky new ship design; the new aliens. But they had to jam it into the TOS era. And force the new alien villain race to be "Klingons." The level of ret-conning needed to explain why the spore drive and Spock's sister aren't mentioned anywhere else in the franchise is headache inducing. The show improved vastly when the setting shifted to the far future, but even so, the prequel damage was done.
The Lanthenites from SNW. Okay, so they wanted Pelia to be millenea old but from Earth. With her people being indistinguishable from El Aurians, it can't have been too hard to come up with a story explaining how a few El Aurians secrerly ended up on Earth ages ago. Not a huge deal, but it peeves me when "Star Trek" creates a new species for every little thing, instead of developing the species they already have. The galaxy is starting to feel crowded.
For positives, here are some retcons I do like:
- Pretty much everything "Picard" did with the Romulans. That some have the foreheads and others don't; the subculture of samurai nuns; etc.
- The Augment Virus. Maybe unnecessary, but it was a rare instance of "Enterprise" doing what a prequel should: providing explanations for questions about the existing franchise.
- The Aenar, and everything ENT did with the Andorians
- Pike learning about his terrible fate in advance. It gives him a different kind of conflict than we've seen in previous "Trek" captains, and makes him so much more admirable when he chooses that sacrifice. It also.adds weight to Spock's actions in "the Menagerie."
- Everything with Una Chin-Riley, including her first name. It's a nice meta joke, while also serving as a plausible explanation for her nickname.
Too true. It doesn't help when there's a 20-year gap in content, pretty much forcing fans to come up with their own continuities. For example, I strongly suspect that most Icheb fans are actually fans of fanfiction versions of the character, or his appearance in Tim Russ's fan film "Renegades." Going only by what's canon, Icheb isn't the best developed or most interesting character, and killing him off to serve Seven's story feels like a pretty reasonable choice.
The Animated Series also made Andorians white and Orions blue, so April having a different skin and hair color can be chalked up to us seeing the events of TAS through the filter of its style.
I LOVE THIS!
I agree with this. Bad ideas in new shows never ruined older shows or movies for me.
But there are a couple of things I have troubles accepting into my head canon. Like that a terribly written character on a show that's mediocre at best, like Michael Burnham, was Spock's stepsister and grew up with him. This retcon is a huge insult to my fan feelings. It would have only been allowed to desecrate Spock's family, imo, if the show that does so is *really* good. DSC is far from that degree of goodness, and Burnham is a contender for my most annoying Star Trek character on any Trek show. It's just insulting to name her in the same breath with Spock.
Another example is the DSC season 1 Klingon redesign. I prefer to pretend these things didn't happen and hope they will never be mentioned again.
Nah, I still make sure I see everything at least once when it airs. Then there will be some episodes/movies I happily gloss over on my Blu-Rays sets.
It would drive me nuts to know that there was a Trek I had never seen!
i triy to do that but i can't stand tas and lower decks - tas is worse
TAS is my favourite. My first Trek -- and in glorious b/w -- so it has a huge nostalgic pull. And Arex and M'Ress!
So all Discovery needs to do is wait, ain't that right EnterpriseI think if new series are bad they make the "old" series look even better.
Similarly, as a newbie Trek fan in 1979, I could not understand the general consensus of hate for TMP. That movie has slowly won over many of its detractors. Not all, but some.
All of this has happened before, all of this will happen again…
There is an aspect of 'We didn't realise how good we had it' with a couple of things Enterprise did better than the modern shows, but I think the biggest reason the show is looked at more fondly now than it was when it was airing, is because it got way better. We're not judging its treatment of Vulcans by season 1, but by season 4.
Time is not going to make people more fond of A Night in Sickbay or These Are The Voyages, just it hasn't made people more appreciative of The Alternative Factor, Code of Honor, Threshold etc. but it's easier to appreciate the journey when we know it's going somewhere good and that it'll make sense by the end. In some ways Voyager benefits from the opposite realisation. Once you know that Voyager will never evolve to make use of its premise, you can set your expectations correctly and appreciate it as a series of standalone stories.
Time is not going to make people more fond of A Night in Sickbay or These Are The Voyages, just it hasn't made people more appreciative of The Alternative Factor, Code of Honor, Threshold etc. but it's easier to appreciate the journey when we know it's going somewhere good and that it'll make sense by the end. In some ways Voyager benefits from the opposite realisation. Once you know that Voyager will never evolve to make use of its premise, you can set your expectations correctly and appreciate it as a series of standalone stories.
I never considered Enterprise as bad.
That's my biggest thing-I don't consider them bad or even worth my energy to be angry at, much less hate.
I didn't care for Enterprise and that's because I had three other shows I wanted to follow at the time so I just changed the channel.
But, hate? Not worth it.
Neither did I. VOY was the show for me that broke the expectation Star Trek is only getting better with each new show -- and I disliked VOY more than it deserved, because it was a step backwards after DS9.
I really enjoyed ENT when it came out, because it was at least much better than VOY.
Ironically, my view on VOY has softened after the years, and the more as I can judge it on its own, rather than as an immediate follow up to TNG or annoying little sister of DS9 -- and after DSC took the place of the Star Trek show I don't like.
So yes, I think much of it is expectation management ... be it, as you say, because the whole show looks different when you know what it will lead to in the end ... or be it because it depends on how you contrast it with the other shows that are on your mind at a given point in time.
Nothing any series has done has ruined anything, of course.
And I am thankful for them all. Though I liked them all in varying degrees.
Tops: TOS, TNG, DS9, SNW, LD, PRO
Bottom: TAS, VOY, ENT, DISCO, ST, PIC
And I am thankful for them all. Though I liked them all in varying degrees.
Tops: TOS, TNG, DS9, SNW, LD, PRO
Bottom: TAS, VOY, ENT, DISCO, ST, PIC
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