Voyager Hate

[The Wormhole]

the reality is that Voyager could never have done meaningful story-arcs in the way that DS9 or even TNG frequently did, because unlike both of those shows, Voyager was constantly moving on from the latest situation. The format by its very nature abhored the idea of recurring guest planets.

There are plenty of ways Voyager could have done continuing story arcs and recurring alien races. In fact, Year of Hell was even planned out as a season long arc before UPN came down and said it could be no longer than a two parter, and had to be reset at the end. Ultimately Voyager's weakness was its own network handicapping it and what it could do.

 

[Tosk]

For me, it's more "Voyager Disappointment" than it is "Voyager Hate".

I certainly don't hate VOY, but it is my least favorite Trek series by far.

 

[Lance]

It didn't follow it's premise and became ToS/TNG but less interesting. The concept of a lost ship with a split crew could've made for an interesting dynamic. Should've been more focus on survival AND on a differing crew that doesn't act just like Star Fleet since they were not all Star Fleet crew. This is quickly abandoned or dismissed and it gave the series of feel of no true consequences where nothing happens matter. Too much reliance on last second technobabble to save the day, yes that happens in every series but it stood out too much in Voyager.

The fundamental flaw in the premise is that they basically had two options: either elect to stay in the Delta Quadrant and explore for a bit, or else "set a course for home". While it might seem like the latter still affords a little opportunity for the former, the reality is that Voyager could never have done meaningful story-arcs in the way that DS9 or even TNG frequently did, because unlike both of those shows, Voyager was constantly moving on from the latest situation. The format by its very nature abhored the idea of recurring guest planets. And as for the Maquis, for all it's good intentions in allowing for character conflict, it's just another dead-end: how long could they have really had these two crews at each others throats before it would become implausible, anyway?

So have you seen the nuBSG by Ron Moore from 10 years ago? Cause they did all of that.

Deciding to head towards the alpha contract didn't kill the show. Having characters that don't properly develop or change does. Ignoring the survival aspects to crew and ship does.

The two crews don't have to constantly be at each others throats. But the crew could develop and function differently and distinctly from other star fleet crews like we had previously seen on TNG and ToS.


The show would've been a lot more acceptable if they were just a deep space exploration vessel that at least had access to Star Bases from time to time and just dropped the entire maquis plot from the beginning. I mean they basically did do that but it's kind of hard to ignore based on the setup of the series.

I don't disagree with what you say, that some degree of delineation would certainly have been helpful. Even show co-creator Michael Piller himself eventually admitted that at the very least they shouldn't have had them all jump into Starfleet uniforms. In some way or fashion it would have been nice to have kept the Maquis as 'civilians', perhaps not under any direct command of Janeway, with Chakotay as something of a middle-manager between the two groups. Realistically, that might have been the best way to handle them.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I think Voyager gets a lot of hate because it just has a generally bland cast lot of really bad episodes. It has some good episodes too but tune in a random week you're likely to see a disposable retread with insanely boring and/or stupid resolutions because the show was afraid to step for half a second out of its comfort zone.

Also the producers promised one kind of series and gave us another.

 

[-Brett-]

I may be wrong here but I'm going to put this idea forward.
I think a fair amount of people didn't like Janeway as captain. A woman in charge. I just don't think people were ready for it.
And the fact that she was a little school-marmish at first and not a hot 20-something that had mysteriously wangled her way to captaincy didn't attract the required section of male viewers.

If anything, having a female lead seems to have bought the show a free pass to some extent. After all, if you take Voyager and make Janeway male, you basically get Enterprise, which is even more poorly regarded.

 

[TheFlutteringHorde]

168 episodes, and only a handful worth watching. When Voyager did well it was incredible. But unfortunately getting to those diamonds in the rough meant having to sit through entire seasons of crap. Most of the stories seemed to come out of a bin of leftover TNG episodes laying around, or like there was a computer generating scripts based on the most cliche and tired aspects of Trek. And instead of learning lessons from this these failures, they were carried over to Enterprise and by the time the changes needed to keep that show viable were made it was already doomed.

So I don't hate Voyager but it frustrates me to no end. They had a decent enough concept, a pretty good assortment of actors, good special effects, but the writing and characterization completely fell flat. And the problems Voyager had are arguably responsible for Enterprise's failures as well. Enterprise Seasons 1 and 2 could just as easily have been Voyager Seasons 8 and 9.

 

[Amaris]

For me, it's more "Voyager Disappointment" than it is "Voyager Hate".

I certainly don't hate VOY, but it is my least favorite Trek series by far.

Agreed. Granted there are always fans who hate a series (which doesn't make sense to me), but I think a lot of it is disappointment. It was for me. I watched Robert Picardo do his thing, and I watched the series premiere, and I was so excited about the show's premise. It was going to be great! What I got, though, was not at all what I had hoped. One can't always get what one wants, but I think it's reasonable to want engaging stories, and consistent characters. That's my base. That's where I start. If I can't have decently consistent characters, and stories that pique my interest, why watch? And so after a while, I didn't.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I don't hate VOY, I'm disappointed with it. The premise was good (a little ship alone in the galaxy, trying to get home) and in the beginning it had a lot of promise, but it just never hit its mark.

There was never much sense of isolation, of hard times, of the will to survive against all the odds. They explored, fired at alien ships, then everything was reset before the next episode. It was a series that cried out to be serialised, due to its very nature, with characters facing some difficult choices and the bleak reality that they might never see home, with a wealth of strong and interesting supporting characters (seeing as how the crew would become a tight-knit community, without any reinforcements due). None of which ever happened.

Then when they brought in Seven to boost ratings, the focus was too much on her, with almost all the other main characters relegated to second tier.

The show needed a sense of peril and danger, through which the optimism of Trek could shine through. As well as a few lines about exactly how many are aboard, and the fact that they started building shuttles and torpedoes, for the sake of continuity.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

I tried watching Voyager in the beginning, but I ended up tuning out at the beginning of season 2, as I recall. I'm not exactly sure why. I know I tired of the Kazon very quickly. I think I might have dreaded them becoming 'regulars', as I found nothing interesting about them whatsoever. Well, that...and wondering how these guys, who had issues simply acquiring water, suddenly had these massive, Husnock-sized battleships.

There were some interestingly creepy shows, though. I did enjoy the organ transplant race (Vidians?) they encountered, for instance.

I'd seen a few episodes later on, and actually found the few episodes I did see better than the earlier ones.

I'm not necessarily critical of the condition of the ship. Granted, they were out on their own, but isn't that where starships are designed to be? Kirk's Enterprise was very often said to be hundreds or thousands of light years beyond known space, and they seemed to do okay. They were supposed to be pretty tough ships, after all.

The torpedo thing I can see, but I'm not one to tally up that stuff. It's pretty easy to just assume they made more and let it go. Along those lines, I knew a guy around that time who had ordered a box of 100 chicken wings for a gathering. He ended up counting all the bones, and actually called to complain that the box only had 99 wings.

All in all, I may have just been burned out on the whole thing, kind of like the song on the radio that, while it may be okay, you've just heard so many times, that you want to hurl the radio out the window. That, or life was getting too distracting for me to devote time to it, I don't remember now.

I'm working on a re-watch as we speak...so we shall see...

 

[Vger23]

I don't hate Voyager...I just don't like it. I've tried to watch it repeatedly and I cannot get through the entire series. It just doesn't hold my interest. It feels derivative and watered-down. The characters are sort of schlocky. I really disliked the Borg sub-plot and the romance between B'elanna (or however you spell it) and Tom Paris.

 

[The Wormhole]

I tried watching Voyager in the beginning, but I ended up tuning out at the beginning of season 2, as I recall. I'm not exactly sure why. I know I tired of the Kazon very quickly. I think I might have dreaded them becoming 'regulars', as I found nothing interesting about them whatsoever. Well, that...and wondering how these guys, who had issues simply acquiring water, suddenly had these massive, Husnock-sized battleships.

That was explained, the ships actually belonged to the race that had conquered and oppressed them until the Kazon revolted, defeated them and stole their ships.

 

[2takesfrakes]

And the fact that she was a little school-marmish at first and not a hot 20-something that had mysteriously wangled her way to captaincy didn't attract the required section of male viewers.

Kate Mulgrew excelled in the part of Kathryn Janeway and made it her own - it was a very credible job. However, just on the part of Janeway, itself, I guess I'm one of those male viewers who feel that the character should've been "a hot 20-something that had mysteriously wangled her way to captaincy."

We'd already had female captains - plural - pop up in STAR TREK, before. Female admirals, too. The part should've been written younger, sexier and nowhear near "motherly." Having said all of that, though, I never had a problem with VOYAGER, really. It could've done alot more to be sexier, edgier, interesting and exciting. But it just sort of settled on the "middle of the road." It has humour. It has charm. And I never held anything against it, because I already got TNG. The rest of the franchise is just gravy, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Tosk]

That was explained, the ships actually belonged to the race that had conquered and oppressed them until the Kazon revolted, defeated them and stole their ships.

I don't recall that explanation, but it still doesn't make much sense...the Kazon have their ships in the pilot, so they are apparently desperate for water just hours before we see their ships. Was the oppression thing perhaps a later inserted backstory to try and patch that hole a little?

 

[Relayer1]

I may be wrong here but I'm going to put this idea forward.
I think a fair amount of people didn't like Janeway as captain. A woman in charge. I just don't think people were ready for it.
And the fact that she was a little school-marmish at first and not a hot 20-something that had mysteriously wangled her way to captaincy didn't attract the required section of male viewers.

If anything, having a female lead seems to have bought the show a free pass to some extent. After all, if you take Voyager and make Janeway male, you basically get Enterprise, which is even more poorly regarded.

We were badly overdue a female captain. I don't think there was much fan resistance.

What was an issue was casting the awful Kate Mulgrew (who I really can't stand, in anything she's done) and for the character to be as badly and inconsistantly written as she was.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I don't think anybody had a problem with Janeway as Captain, at least not because she was a woman. Some people were put off my her mannerisms.

I think a big part of why a lot of people gave up on Voyager earlier was the Kazon. They were just not a compelling villain in the least.

 

[The Wormhole]

That was explained, the ships actually belonged to the race that had conquered and oppressed them until the Kazon revolted, defeated them and stole their ships.

I don't recall that explanation, but it still doesn't make much sense...the Kazon have their ships in the pilot, so they are apparently desperate for water just hours before we see their ships. Was the oppression thing perhaps a later inserted backstory to try and patch that hole a little?

Second season episode Alliances introduces the Trabe, the species which oppressed the Kazon and who originally built the ships they now use.

 

[USS Triumphant]

In all honesty, I was never bothered by the lack of conflict with the Maquis portion of the crew simply because there wasn't really much more they could have done anyway.

The 2nd Season episode "The 37s" and the offer extended to the entire crew - Starfleet AND Marquis - to stay with the other human civilization or to stay on Voyager, did a lot to kill potential for conflict between the two groups. After that, everyone there CHOSE to be there.

If Janeway acted like a Jim Kirk then she'd be called a slut for bedding and seducing her way across the galaxy.

I can't decide if your assumption that THIS is what I meant by "give Jim Kirk a run for his money" is misogynistic, misandrism, or just Kirk-bashing.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

I can say without any hesitation that watching S1 and 2 was a struggle. If I had seen Voyager when it first premiered I probably would have gave up after a couple episodes. I enjoyed S3 a lot more and S4 is turning out to be very entertaining. Yes, Seven Of Nine is a very interesting character but I just think in general the show is reaching a greater level of improvement.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I like Seven more in seasons 5-7 when she has been assimilated (No pun intended) into the crew. In season 4 she's just kind of battling words with Janeway about independence and doing stuff on her own. The strength of her character comes out more in my opinion after she's already decided she wants to stay independent and be part of the crew.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

As bad as Voyager was, they did have some cool villains and alien races: The Hirogen (which, technically, were watered down Predators)...the Malons...the Viidians...the Vaadwaur...Species 8472(aka The Undine)...