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Starcraft Productions Blueprints of the Saladin/Hermes

I do not have a problem with the ship's fuel storage being distributed along the ship's center of gravity, if you will. I seem to recall a discussion some time back (one of Shaw's threads?) about the placement of the TOS Enterprise's impulse engines, and how it would make sense if the bulk of the ship's mass (fuel) were stored on the same general level.

I would also point out that the saucer section of any Federation starship is likely to have its own fuel store, whether there are shuttlecraft hangared there or not; lest we forget saucers tend to house impulse engines and photon torpedo banks, as well as possibly be required to separate and operate independently. In the case of the Saladin-Hermes, I would assume this would mean a simple jettison of the nacelles and possibly the pylons with them.
 
The nacelles were frequently referred to as "warp pods" on TOS. I picked this up rewatching the shows back when I was writing that "Exeter" episode and looking for TOS technobabble.
 
aridas sofia said:
They're by my old comrade Allen Everhart. Allen was a prolific Trek blueprinter until he joined the Navy in the late 80s. I had a phone conversation with him a few days before he headed off to boot camp, and he was thrilled to be pursuing a dream. He signed onto the battleship Iowa and died in the turret explosion that killed 47 crewmen.

As for his layout, the M/AM storage is in the nacelles themselves, as they are in all TOS nacelles per episodes like "Elaan of Troyius" and "The Apple". I have the plans, but not where I am at the moment, so I can't comment on the internal layout beyond saying that he was going by the description in the Whitfield/Roddenberry authored "The Making of Star Trek", which describes the saucer as having eleven decks. This comes from the Matt Jefferies cross section in the book, and must include low-overhead spaces top and bottom to come to eleven. Franz Joseph took the number literally, and gave the ship eleven full decks, complaining all the while that the saucer couldn't accommodate them. That's why his plans look different from the 11 foot model -- he was "fixing" the exterior to bring it into compliance with that description, not realizing that either Jefferies never intended the partial decks to be counted, or intended them to be counted as just what he portrayed them to be -- partial decks. In any event, fans in the 70s and 80s took Franz Joseph as the final word on the subject and used the more liberally spaced saucer to create things like Allen's hangar decks and engineering room. (The location of which in the saucer, BTW also comes from TMoST and FJ).
Click to expand...

I was wondering from which sources I got that misconception. I was surprised when I saw the David Kimble's painted cross-section poster that had Engineering in the secondary hull. :lol:
 
This is a great thread... I've been working on a single engine starship for a while trying to up date the destroyer/scout design. One of the main things I've been wrestling with is the inclusion of shuttle craft hangars. On the Adams I have blocked in two, one to either side of main engineering. There is ample room for the shuttle bays, however I would not want to try to land in one. I think being tractored in would be more preferable...The Captain doesnt ask silly questions about expensive repairs that way...

Shuttle bay inboard profile...
170DECK7BEXPORT2.jpg

Another view...
170DECK7BEXPORT.jpg

Overall profile...
CHARLESFADAMS-INBDPROFILE.jpg
 
Eventually, that's plan. Our hero thought he'd just sit down and knock these puppies out in a few days...months later. As I have gotten into this thing I have discovered that every time I put something in and anwser a question, it creates two or three more. Or, heaven forbid I change something, it causes a ripple effect...(LOL)

Regards,
Chuck
 
I designed it for 10 decks. The planetary sensor dome and support equipment would be an "add on" or "instrument bay", not normally accessed in flight.
 
I always thought the four sguare lights on the original Connie's uper saucer surface would make great shuttle landing pads, with elevaters to take shuttles down to the lower bay. I know they were a bit small (unless you subscribe to the bigger ship theory) but the fact that they corrospond to the four rows of windows around the saucers edge opens the possibility of an observation deck in there, like that in the secondary hull?
 
Humbugsley said:
One thing struck me about the Saladin/Hermes plans: the plans show an ENT-style pair of shuttlecraft launch bays on the underside of the saucer.
Click to expand...
Not "ENT-Style" but rather "original Matt Jefferies concept style."
The shuttlebay is supposedly located on Deck 8. (I thought that the saucer only had 8 or 9 decks, but not according to these plans.)
Click to expand...
Nope, it's been uniformly accepted that the TOS 1701 had 11 decks in the primary hull ever since the early 1970s and the Franz Joseph blueprints. I have NO IDEA where you'd have gotten the idea of "only 8 or 9 decks." As far as I know, no published reference has ever so much as hinted at that.
This hangar is only on one deck; there is not "high bay" spilling over onto Deck 7.
Click to expand...
Which means that the shuttlecraft carried by this ship need to fit into a single deck height. Not impossible... but probably, therefore, not being the TOS shuttle design as we know it, huh?
I also noticed a full-size Engine Room located at the rear of the saucer just ahead of the impulse engines. I would expect that the saucer's underside undercut ring to cut into the floor space of that room.
Click to expand...
That's how the FJ design had it... and that, ultimately, came from Gene Roddenberry's tendency to claim credit for work which wasn't his own. At some point someone asked where the Enterprise's engine room was, and his response was to put it there. However, Matt Jefferies always intended for it to be in the secondary hull, and virtually everyone in the original series production staff (except, apparently, Roddenberry) knew that.

However, when Roddenberry said that's where it was, people went along with it. I always HATED that... in part, because of the exact reason you gave. And when the first cut-away painting came out that Paramount had approved with it being in the secondary hull... that little bit of Roddenberry-ism finally went away, never to be seen again. ;)
Another thing I've noticed about all of these plans is that there is no space for matter/antimatter fuel storage. None whatsoever.
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Of course not. This was before the TMP redesign, before TNG... back when the original intention was still in place.

The antimatter and matter used in the M/AM reaction was stored in the nacelles. The main reactors (NOT "WARP CORES") were in the nacelles. And the warp field generators were in the nacelles.

I really didn't like it when they put the M/AM reactor in the secondary hull in TMP, but could accept it (since it was a dramatically revised design). But I really hated it when everyone started asking dumb questions like "where is the dilithium articulation frame... the warp core... the plasma conduits... in the TOS ship. Those are TNG-era terms, not "Star Trek" terms.

So... the matter collection... the antimatter generation... the matter storage... the antimatter storage... the matter/antimatter reactors (plural)... and the warp propulsion system... are ALL inside of the nacelles.
Does anyone else want to chime in on these plans and whether or not everything "fits"?
Click to expand...
It fits just fine. The problem is that stuff that came later DOESN'T "fit" with the original idea from "Star Trek."
 
aridas sofia said:
They're by my old comrade Allen Everhart. Allen was a prolific Trek blueprinter until he joined the Navy in the late 80s. I had a phone conversation with him a few days before he headed off to boot camp, and he was thrilled to be pursuing a dream. He signed onto the battleship Iowa and died in the turret explosion that killed 47 crewmen.
Click to expand...
I had no idea that Allen died in that blast... though I remember when it happened very clearly. Shame... he did great work.
 
Humbugsley said:
What ceiling height did you figure for a typical deck?
Click to expand...
The average height for a typical deck (compartments/passage ways) is 7 feet. When I was doing some back ground research I talked to a friend at work, who was assigned to one of the old guided missle destroyers in our rich Uncle Samuel's Navy. He told me the passage ways and compartments had about a 6 foot "celing" and about a foot of space above that for piping, conduits, and wire runs. So I used that figure, and it worked out about right for me. (Shock!)

-Chuck
 
CDR6 said:
Humbugsley said:
What ceiling height did you figure for a typical deck?
Click to expand...
The average height for a typical deck (compartments/passage ways) is 7 feet. When I was doing some back ground research I talked to a friend at work, who was assigned to one of the old guided missle destroyers in our rich Uncle Samuel's Navy. He told me the passage ways and compartments had about a 6 foot "celing" and about a foot of space above that for piping, conduits, and wire runs. So I used that figure, and it worked out about right for me. (Shock!)

-Chuck
Click to expand...
That is very interesting to know keep up the great work. :techman:
 
I must say -- I love the way this is developing. You do great work.

Please never stop.

I've done blueprinting myself in the past, but never to this scale. I appreciate the effort.



Tony
 
For the record, "matter/antimatter reaction chamber", "matter/antimatter reactor", and "dilithium crystal converter assembly" all originated with TOS.

When Mike Okuda was working out the layout of the ship for the Encyclopedia, he had more to go on than just post-TMP revisionism going on.
 
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