Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x10 - "Hegemony"

[hbquikcomjamesl]

They are a lot and believe that it is either his brother or father rather than the same character.

I see it regularly.

Funny, whenever I voice the opinion that there could be more than one physician named M'Benga, even though I point out that writers' guides are not canon, that nothing is canon until it shows up in a release print, and that Data was constructed by the same being responsible for the destruction of the colony where he was found, apparently as an act of atonement . . . until he wasn't (because Robert Lewin and Maurice Hurley came up with a better backstory), I get shouted down. Much more violently than those who say the Gorn couldn't possibly be the Gorn, because they don't look or move like a lumbering "guy in a rubber dinosaur suit," and/or because James T. Kirk didn't seem to recognize the species.

 

[fireproof78]

Funny, whenever I voice the opinion that there could be more than one physician named M'Benga, even though I point out that writers' guides are not canon, that nothing is canon until it shows up in a release print, and that Data was constructed by the same being responsible for the destruction of the colony where he was found, apparently as an act of atonement . . . until he wasn't (because Robert Lewin and Maurice Hurley came up with a better backstory), I get shouted down. Much more violently than those who say the Gorn couldn't possibly be the Gorn, because they don't look or move like a lumbering "guy in a rubber dinosaur suit," and/or because James T. Kirk didn't seem to recognize the species.

I mean, it's not a theory I personally like but I see the arguments for it. I think it could be interesting, but I could see it going either way. Mostly because M'Benga has very little details in his backstory to go on.

The Gorn thing, well, I just liken it to thinking all humans should look like Lebron James.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Well, technically, it's not a theory. A hypothesis, a conjecture, but not a theory. A theory is a model, verbal or mathematical, that attempts to explain observations and predict future observations.

Outside of scientific circles, "theory" may very well be one of the most misused words in the English language.

At any rate, my conjecture about M'Benga is based on the fact that Babs is significantly older today than Booker Bradshaw was in the late 1960s, whereas the character is roughly a decade younger in SNW than in TOS -- IF there's only one physician in Starfleet named M'Benga. And on the fact that anything the producers say, anything the showrunners say, and anything printed in the writers' guide is subject to contradiction, even if it's actually filmed (literally or figuratively), until it appears in a release print (again, literal or figurative) that is shown to the general public. And on the fact that TrekLit established (albeit non-canonically) "Jabilo" as the given name of the TOS M'Benga. And on the seeming absurdity of M'Benga being CMO, then leaving the Enterprise completely (succeeded by Mark Piper, and then by Leonard McCoy), then coming back as a subordinate to the CMO. And on my own personal experience: a friend of mine is a retired gynecologist, and his uncle was a general surgeon (and from what I've seen, heard, and read, having multiple physicians in the same family is not at all unusual) .And on Occam's Razor: to me, having a younger M'Benga, possibly still in residency during the SNW era (or still in internship, or even still in medical school) is the simplest explanation.

As to Chapel, it seems simple enough, and believable enough, that a young woman would be working her way through graduate school as a Starfleet nurse, only to leave Starfleet to work with Roger Korby, with Chapel and Korby subsequently falling in love. Korby disappears, and Chapel returns to Starfleet, and the Enterprise, in hopes that she might one day find him. And when she does, she ends up wishing she hadn't. Then eventually, she goes for her MD.

And I can certainly see SNW Uhura developing into TOS Uhura, and eventually TOS Movie Uhura.

I loved Scotty's appearance in this episode, and I love how, for the first time, he's actually played by a real Scotsman.

And especially given what was discussed in the "Gorn" featurette that came in the DVD set, I see no reason to write off the SNW Gorn as not being "the real Gorn."

 

[fireproof78]

Well, technically, it's not a theory. A hypothesis, a conjecture, but not a theory. A theory is a model, verbal or mathematical, that attempts to explain observations and predict future observations.

Outside of scientific circles, "theory" may very well be one of the most misused words in the English language.

That and "needed."

But, as a hypothesis I do not agree with it because it assumes the actors ages are the characters ages. I think thats tenuous, at best.

 

[Tuskin38]

Patrick Stewart was 10 years younger than Picard.

Actor age doesn’t really mean anything in fiction.

 

[cooleddie74]

12 actually. 47 in real life, 59 as the character when the series began.

 

[Tuskin38]

Hmm. I see that nobody else has seen the resolution of this cliffhanger, either

Yeah, Season 3 only finished filming a couple months ago. It probably won’t air until 2025

 

[Macintosh]

Patrick Stewart was 10 years younger than Picard.

Actor age doesn’t really mean anything in fiction.

And Nana Visitor was eight years older than Kira, Roxann Dawson was twelve years older than B'Elanna Torres, and Ed Speleers was about fifteen years older than Jack Crusher. There's plenty of notable age gaps between actors and characters in Star Trek.

 

[Michael]

Yeah, no, I feel it’s reasonably safe to assume that Babs Olusanmokun’s M’Benga and Booker Bradshaw’s M’Benga are supposed to be the exact same guy and that producers didn’t give a crap about the age discrepancy when they cast him. I suspect that even if they did have some concerns about Babs being slightly older than Booker as M'Benga, they were quickly resolved by the fact that they were able to score someone as awesome as Babs Olusanmokun for the role in the first place.

Yeah, Season 3 only finished filming a couple months ago. It probably won’t air until 2025

According to Anson Mount and Melissa Navia at FedCon last weekend they had just come over from shooting the season three finale.

 

[Jedi Marso]

BOBW worked very well as a cliffhanger partly because at the time people thought they really might actually kill Picard. It loses a lot of its bite when you know that isn't the case. BUT, it's still a fantastic episode.

Yeah, there were all the rumors back then about Stewart wanting to leave the show. That finale generated a lot of buzz, and it was a long off-season wait for part 2.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

But Patrick Stewart has, at least for the past 37-odd years, looked older than his actual age.

Booker Bradshaw was 27, and looked no older than 27 (and maybe a bit younger), in 1967.
Babs Olusanmokun is 40, and looks no younger than 40 (and maybe a bit older) now. And yet, if TOS M'Benga is the same character as SNW M'Benga, he's playing a character who's at least 10 years younger (based on the canonical assertion that "Court Marshall" is 15 years after "The Cage").

Let us optimistically assume that TOS M'Benga is 30 (3 years older than the actor) in "A Private Little War." That would be barely old enough for him to be out of residency. But that would make him only 20 in the SNW era. Unless he was a 23rd century Doogie Howser, he wouldn't have even had a pre-med bachelor's degree by then. He'd have been at most an upper-division undergraduate.

Now SNW M'Benga is the CMO of a starship. Unless he's a 23rd century Doogie Howser, he's likely well into his 40s. That would put him well into his 50s by "A Private Little War."

Again, assuming that TOS M'Benga is a younger relative of SNW M'Benga is the simplest assumption that satisfies what we're seeing on-screen.

 

[fireproof78]

Again, assuming that TOS M'Benga is a younger relative of SNW M'Benga is the simplest assumption that satisfies what we're seeing on-screen.

I mean, it assumes facts not in evidence. We don't know M'Benga's age, so guessing it based off of actors ages is not a sure thing, given the variety of actors not being close to the ages of their characters.

So, while I appreciate the hypothesis, it simply is to assuage an idea that the two cannot be the same based upon physical appearance alone. As well as assumes that medical school takes as long as it currently does in modern times, as well the fact that M'Benga served during the Klingon war which may have given him a leg up in the promotion status due to experiences.

 

[Farscape One]

And people can simply look younger than their actual age. TOS M'Benga may very well be 40 while looking 30.

 

[cooleddie74]

I mean, Guinan is HUNDREDS OF YEARS OLD. Whoopi, not so much.

 

[Yistaan]

We're griping about M'Benga's age? I'm an Asian man and they pretty much changed Kyle into a different character in SNW by changing his ethnicity supposedly in the name of giving screentime to minorities (and his role was so small anyway it was literally the definition of token). I'm an Asian, would've preferred that Kyle stayed his TOS ethnicity for continuity's sake, and that they have brought in Sulu and give him a sizable screentime role.

As it is I'm pretending it's just another guy named Kyle to be honest.

 

[cooleddie74]

That's what I do. It's just a Kyle of a different ethnic background who served on the ship before the John Winston Kyle came aboard around 2266.

 

[fireproof78]

That's what I do. It's just a Kyle of a different ethnic background who served on the ship before the John Winston Kyle came aboard around 2266.

I don't see any reason to assume it's the same Kyle.

 

[cooleddie74]

Me neither.

 

[Yistaan]

Trevor Roth, one of the executive producers of SNW, said it's the same Kyle according to Kyle's MA talk page.

This is one of those instances whether you take creator intention as canon or only what's in the work itself. Trickier these days when creators say random stuff in interviews that don't always match up with the work and then they also change their mind and contradict themselves later on (Dave Filoni and Bad Batch and Dark Disciple from that other Star franchise anyone?)

 

[fireproof78]

This is one of those instances whether you take creator intention as canon or only what's in the work itself.

Only the work itself. The work itself should at least be able to stand up on its own without much extraneous material.