Star Trek: Generations at 30

[Tallguy]

We never saw the Malurians who were destroyed by Nomad, at least not until a member of the species showed up in "Civilization(ENT)," a story set over a century before the Malurian race was wiped out. Sometimes we don't really need to see every alien that's part of the wider story.

And if Scotty had given his life to save them, that might have been significant. If anything there is the fact that billions of people died off screen that year (Nomad, the Space Amoeba, the Doomsday Machine) and we really don't care all that much (maybe the crew of the Constellation, but only because we get to see how wrecked Matt Decker is for nearly an hour).

This is what the original Captain of Star Trek (you know what I mean) dies for. A noble aim, to be sure. But I would just as soon seen a sad lieutenant say "they're GONE, sir!" and kept James Kirk.

Dukhat murdered how many Bajorans off screen? Do we care about any of them as much as Jadzia Dax?

 

[DonIago]

We never saw the Malurians who were destroyed by Nomad, at least not until a member of the species showed up in "Civilization(ENT)," a story set over a century before the Malurian race was wiped out. Sometimes we don't really need to see every alien that's part of the wider story.

I'd argue that we do need some sense of who they are other than a conversational footnote if we're to be expected to be particularly emotionally moved by events that befall them.

Nomad wiping out the Malurians in fact has litttle to do with the Malurians themselves; it's about presenting Nomad as a significant threat.

 

[suarezguy]

I think George resonates better for me.

I thought they both felt pretty badly forced by the "we're the only ship in range" setup, '09 feeling a bit worse for being the second time.

 

[Tallguy]

I thought they both felt pretty badly forced by the "we're the only ship in range" setup, '09 feeling a bit worse for being the second time.

That wasn't "in range" that was "Hey, we're right here and it's happening in front of us!"

 

[fireproof78]

I thought they both felt pretty badly forced by the "we're the only ship in range" setup, '09 feeling a bit worse for being the second time.

I guess I'll disagree. Only ship is common with Trek, and TMP being another example.

 

[Tallguy]

I guess I'll disagree. Only ship is common with Trek, and TMP being another example.

Only Ship made more sense when you were boldly going. (Like in 09. Although, again, not really only ship. Plus someone had to rescue the shuttles.)

TMP, TWOK, and GEN were all AT EARTH. And TFF although they tried to play that as not "Only Ship" but "Only Captain".

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Perhaps one of the key factors is that while we know there's 230 million lives on Veridian IV(?), we don't even get a glimpse of them in the film. They're a pure abstraction, making it infinitely easier to care about the ~1,000 lives on the E-D (not a trifling figure!).

I sometimes think that the Enterprise should have been doing something mundane in Generations, like a pre-contact survey of Veridian III, nothing wild or weird... and then they detect a Klingon Bird-of-Prey inbound in the system who isn't even trying to hide because they have no reason to expect that the Enterprise is there.

Or a different ship doing the survey, and then it gets out of hand, not unlike the Reliant in Star Trek II or the Grissom in III, and then the Enterprise receives a distress call from the ship, which was attacked, which draws the Enterprise toward Veridian and the final confrontation with Soran.

I struggle with these ideas, though. While they would serve to make the civilization on Veridian IV more than an abstraction, they also add more stuffing to a somewhat overstuffed film.

 

[NCC-73515]

That would kinda remove the amazing stellar cartography scene though

 

[Allyn Gibson]

That would kinda remove the amazing stellar cartography scene though

I was thinking about that, and no, not necessarily. At some point, Picard and Data would have to figure out why all this stuff is happening in the Viridian system, so they would still need to be an infodumpy scene that explains the Nexus' movements.

 

[NCC-73515]

If they're already in Veridian, I guess it could happen then, and they figure out they're already where they need to be
(I'd love to see the game missions in an extended movie!)

 

[rocketscientist]

McDowell was the best thing about the movie. He's a great actor and his motivations for being the 'bad guy' were completely convincing (despite the Nexus itself being a pretty stupid plot device.)

You're right, McDowell was one of the best things about Generations. They had a great bad and nasty bad guy!

For me, Generations is a mixed bag. Generally, I found it underwhelming and slightly disappointing. I was really looking forward to the Kirk Picard team up and there wasn't enough of it and, as others have said, Kirk's death just didn't resonate. Both Ron Moore and Brannon Braga admitted that they failed with that and Moore also said Leonard Nimoy was right about their script, that it was weak.

It's just such a shame. It was a real missed opportunity, something that could have been so much better if Paramount and Berman had gotten Nimoy onboard earlier to direct. They could've had Kirk traveling to the future and had Nimoy, Bones, and Scotty there meet him.

Instead, Kirk is there at the beginning and end, both Nexus fantasies of the captains really don't work that well, and the Ent-D gets blown up by a BOP using a similar tactic, hacking Geordi's visor, that already occurred in TNG. Very contrived, just like the Nexus.

I was ok with the emotion chip subplot, although others thought Data was irritating, I guess.

I didn't mind that they killed Kirk off, it was just the manner of the whole thing and the whole story. It just didn't work well at all.

Good parts were the Picard and Kirk teamup. I'm a huge TOS fan and I love TNG too. I wanted more of that and I thought there was really good chemistry between the characters. Both Shatner and Stewart enjoyed it too and Stewart thought it was a shame as he would've liked to have done more with Shatner.

Maclolm McDowell, as said before.

The destruction of the TNG was spectacular, but it didn't resonate or hit me the way the destruction of the original Enterprise did in TSFS. That was a much bigger deal imo. At that time, it was hardly conceviable that they would do it. The Enterprise had been through so many near deaths and scrapes you just figured it would always be around.

Then they got the A in TVH and the D in TNG, so you knew at that point, that they would just get a new ship.


But, y'know, having said all that, GEN wasn't the only ST movie that left me feeling underwhelmed. TFF was more disappointing and Insurrection was just...pleasant.

 

[rocketscientist]

The lighting in the ready room and 10 fwd looked great, but the rest did look nicer in TNG. The extra consoles on the bridge were a welcome addition as well.

I didn't care for the extra consoles. I just don't think they worked well because the bridge just wasn't designed for them there to begin with. I think they cut into the spaciousness of the TNG bridge which I really thought was one of the great elements that really distinguished the Enterprise D from both the original Enterprise and the refit.

As for the lighting, eh, mixed feelings there. I was ok with it.

 

[rocketscientist]

The Nexus logic come across as dumb for me.

I'm all for a Captain Kirk goes one last adventure. Save the galaxy or die trying.. It's the part I liked in the story.

It's that you can leave the nexus and go anywhere in time and space. Why Picard didn't go back months, could of saved his family from being in the house when it burns down and still have time to have Soran arrested before he starts blowing stars up, there's enough shady stuff involving the Romulans we could have him detained. Also that would mean the enterprise-d doesn't get destroyed.

Edit to add.
For the longest time I did have a theory of what if Picard never actually left the nexus, and everything post generations is just Picard's make-believe land haha

Moore admitted that the Nexus left a plot hole you could drive a truck through.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

I love Generations. Second favourite Trek film after First Contact for me.

I would have loved to have seen it in the cinema but I was only 3 at the time.

 

[CoveTom]

I was ok with the emotion chip subplot, although others thought Data was irritating, I guess.

I don't like the emotion chip at all. It's not just a Generations thing. I mean even in the series and the other movies. To me, it undercuts Data's entire story arc.

First off, it's just silly to think that emotions are something that can be granted or taken away by a single computer chip. But let's put that aside for the moment.

The whole point of Data was that he was more than the sum of his parts. We, the audience, realize that he's had emotions all along. He exhibits them in his own special way throughout the entirety of TNG. He grieves for Yar and Lal, for example. He feels betrayal by Ishara. He cares deeply about his friends. Etc. The journey of Data wasn't about him getting some chip slapped in that suddenly made him have emotions. It was about him realizing what he already had, and that just because he was different didn't make him "lesser."

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I guess it's a program patch that allows him to express what's already there using what's considered "normal" humanoid forms of expression, rather than subtle ways that people can learn to recognize.

 

[NCC-73515]

That's more of a Brothers problem, Generations just followed up on that and Descent. Birthright also showed that there are hidden DLCs for him to unlock

 

[Detached Nacelle]

First off, it's just silly to think that emotions are something that can be granted or taken away by a single computer chip.

I've always thought it was strange the emotion chip produces emotions that an empath can detect. Like not a facsimile of emotions somehow it's producing a brainwave signal.

Unless the emotion chip is not just entirely a creation of robotics and some of Adam and Arik Soong's research was used in its production.

 

[Newt]

Moore admitted that the Nexus left a plot hole you could drive a truck through.

DATA: “Our records show that every truck which has approached the ribbon has either been destroyed or severely damaged.”

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I like it.

It may sound like damning with faint praise, but I believe it is by a very wide margin the best of the TNG movies. A very wide margin.

The worst thing about it is Spiner. Also by a very wide margin.