"Star Trek V: The Final Frontier" or "Star Trek: Generations"?

[Vger23]

But, that's not what Kirk says. He tells McCoy the purpose of his pain and unwillingness to just give it up. It's not just Sybok he's resisting.

I guess my point is that Kirk refuses not because he's "Superman Kirk and Shatner has an ego" but because it's true to character. Kirk sees McCoy and Spock go through the "give me your pain" scheme, and simply decides he wants nothing to do with it. He wants to stay in his own reality. It's fairly consistent with his character, always rejecting the idea of paradise or taking the easy path. Heck, even in GEN he brushes off the highly addictive properties of the Nexus when he realizes it's just another con of sorts.

I think Kirk's dialogue in that moment is spot-on...one of the defining moments for the character.

 

[fireproof78]

guess my point is that Kirk refuses not because he's "Superman Kirk and Shatner has an ego" but because it's true to character.

I thinks it's true to.

 

[DonIago]

I guess my point is that Kirk refuses not because he's "Superman Kirk and Shatner has an ego" but because it's true to character. Kirk sees McCoy and Spock go through the "give me your pain" scheme, and simply decides he wants nothing to do with it. He wants to stay in his own reality. It's fairly consistent with his character, always rejecting the idea of paradise or taking the easy path. Heck, even in GEN he brushes off the highly addictive properties of the Nexus when he realizes it's just another con of sorts.

I think Kirk's dialogue in that moment is spot-on...one of the defining moments for the character.

But by having McCoy and Spock and almost everyone else take the cheap and easy way out that Sybok offers and get suckered into joining Sybok's army of Shiny Happy People while Kirk alone stands up to Sybok and says, "Thanks, but no thanks," (and then snaps Spock and McCoy out of it) is exceptionalism.

It's like if they'd all gone to Jim Jones's commune and some people drank the Kool-Aid willingly while Spock and McCoy said, "We know this Kool-Aid is a trick because we're smart people, and we're going to drink it anyway even though there's no reason why we should," only to suffer the same fate as everyone else, while Kirk alone said, "Nah, I'm fine without any Kool-Aid."

The movie makes Kirk look good at the expense of making almost everyone else look bad by comparison.

 

[Brannigan]

I hope this is appropriate because I did not want to start a whole thread on this topic:

When Picard meets Kirk in the nexus, in Kirks time when is this suppose to take place? Between Star Trek V-VI?

 

[DonIago]

I hope this is appropriate because I did not want to start a whole thread on this topic:

When Picard meets Kirk in the nexus, in Kirks time when is this suppose to take place? Between Star Trek V-VI?

You're asking about when Kirk's nexus fantasy is supposed to be set, at least when Picard first finds him? That would be between TMP and TWOK per Memory Alpha. 2282.

 

[Brannigan]

Yes, Im not sure where I read it was supposed to be between V-VI, but this period makes more sense.

 

[suarezguy]

I think these movies and reactions to them particularly make the point that no, actually most movies don't get reappraised even decades later, if they generate pretty strong reactions there generally tends to be continuing same reactions to the same disliked elements, maybe one or two always-less-noticed/reacted to elements (some say for funny Data, Sybok) gets some people arguing it's not that bad, it's kind of interesting, but the main elements tend to get same reactions no, really not good idea and/or execution.