Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x09 - "Lagrange Point"

[Tuskin38]

This is what Chabon himself said about his involvement.

"So I’m still an executive producer on ‘Picard.’ I’m writing two episodes. I was there breaking the second season, all the way through. I was engaged, I think, in exactly the same degree as I was on Season 1 up to the point where it’s time to start production — and at that point, I will not be doing the same thing at all. I’ll just be continuing to give notes and, and be involved as an EP.”"

https://blog.trekcore.com/2020/03/star-trek-picard-michael-chabon-finale-interview-roundup/

That was before they rewrote the entire season because of Covid

 

[Quantum21]

The only things I think Kurtzman is creatively involved with is PIC Season 1, Discovery and the upcoming Starfleet Academy. I don't think he's involved creatively with the Section 31 movie.

Every other Trek show I think he's just listed as an Executive Producer because he's the head of Trek, and for the live action shows, the head of Secret Hideout.
Just like how Rod Roddenberry is listed as an Executive on everything (except Prodigy) because he's the head of Roddenberry Entertainment.

Edit: I just remembered he's listed as a co-writer on the SNW Season 1 premier. So he had some influence there, but based off interviews and PR, SNW seems to be more Akiva Goldsman's baby.

It's hilarious when I see people suggesting Matalas replace Kurtzman, who has a contract and a production company and oversees all the shows, and is a co-showrunner on one. Matalas was a hired gun working under Kurtzman for one show.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That was before they rewrote the entire season because of Covid

I wonder what the pre-COVID PIC2 was like? But, I guess that's a discussion for a different forum.

 

[Quantum21]

I wonder what the pre-COVID PIC2 was like? But, I guess that's a discussion for a different forum.

There's an interview with Matalas on the subject. Most of the key ideas people seemed to dislike from season 2 were his.

 

[Citiprime]

Michael Chabon did write Season 2 of Picard, day to day operation was then taken over by Matalas, who reportedly rewrote the 1 and last episode.

From what I remember, it was actually Akiva Goldsman who did the majority of day-to-day on Picard season 2. Both he and Matalas are credited for season 2, but reportedly partway through production on season 2 Matalas turned everything over to Goldsman so he could prep Picard season 3.

Also, I feel like this can be seen in some of the tone changes between seasons 1 and 2 of Strange New Worlds. Goldsman and Henry Alonso Myers are credited as co-showrunners for SNW. But day-to-day for season 1 was done by Myers, since Goldsman was busy with Picard season 2.

For season 2 of Strange New Worlds, though, Goldsman and Myers ran it together, and Goldsman had more of a voice. And I think you can see it in some of the choices and the tone compared to season 1.

 

[Firebird]

I wonder what the pre-COVID PIC2 was like? But, I guess that's a discussion for a different forum.

Evan Evagora mentioned he read most, if not all, of the original version of Picard season 2 and said it was pretty different. Though from what I remember, it didn't sound that much better - lots more of the season 3 connect-the-dots fannish stuff.

I think the season was damned from the start, no matter what the COVID protocols did to the production schedule and scripts.

 

[UssGlenn]

I think there's a lot of blame to shop around on that one, in fairness ...

Goldsman was completely successful in writing Batman and Robin. They wanted a live action cartoon, and that's exactly what he gave them.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

From what I remember, it was actually Akiva Goldsman who did the majority of day-to-day on Picard season 2. Both he and Matalas are credited for season 2, but reportedly partway through production on season 2 Matalas turned everything over to Goldsman so he could prep Picard season 3.

Also, I feel like this can be seen in some of the tone changes between seasons 1 and 2 of Strange New Worlds. Goldsman and Henry Alonso Myers are credited as co-showrunners for SNW. But day-to-day for season 1 was done by Myers, since Goldsman was busy with Picard season 2.

For season 2 of Strange New Worlds, though, Goldsman and Myers ran it together, and Goldsman had more of a voice. And I think you can see it in some of the choices and the tone compared to season 1.

THANK YOU for bringing up Henry Alonso Myers. He seems to rarely be brought up because folks have more of a gripe on Goldsman. Myers was the guy who pitched the show as “why don’t we just do Star Trek?” as in the traditional episodic series like TOS/TNG.

 

[eschaton]

THANK YOU for bringing up Henry Alonso Myers. He seems to rarely be brought up because folks have more of a gripe on Goldsman. Myers was the guy who pitched the show as “why don’t we just do Star Trek?” as in the traditional episodic series like TOS/TNG.

I'd also note that Myers was co-showrunner of Syfy's The Magicians, which was a truly incredible show - one of the few cases where a show improved upon the books it was based upon.

I also knew as soon as it was announced he was involved we were going to get a musical episode of SNW eventually. The Magicians had musical episodes every single season!

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Oh wow I didn’t make that connection. Granted, I only saw the first season way back when.

 

[Farscape One]

I'd also note that Myers was co-showrunner of Syfy's The Magicians, which was a truly incredible show - one of the few cases where a show improved upon the books it was based upon.

I also knew as soon as it was announced he was involved we were going to get a musical episode of SNW eventually. The Magicians had musical episodes every single season!

I never saw THE MAGICIANS. I had no idea musicals were such a thing for him. Now I know who to blame for "Subspace Rhapsody" and why any rewatch of SNW I do will always be incomplete.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

So its not his vision of what star trek was to be?

Well Disco, SNW and PIC are all his partly visions of what Trek was to be. But people attack him for being the producer of Discovery but pretend to themselves that he was somehow "kept away" from the other two.
Closer to the truth is each show is moulded mostly by the person under him specific to each show.

 

[Quantum21]

Well Disco, SNW and PIC are all his partly visions of what Trek was to be. But people attack him for being the producer of Discovery but pretend to themselves that he was somehow "kept away" from the other two.
Closer to the truth is each show is moulded mostly by the person under him specific to each show.

Kurtzman was successful in choosing good show runners, from animated shows to live action. Fans should love him for that.

 

[eschaton]

Oh wow I didn’t make that connection. Granted, I only saw the first season way back when.

Season 1 of the Magicians had some aspects which didn't quite align with what the show became. The show lightened up its tone a lot, and also became more fourth-wall breaking over time. There was also a "teen drama" aspect of that season that I disliked. It was book-accurate, but given they aged up the characters from the books (where they start college at 18, whereas in the series it's grad school) it felt tonally wrong for the setting.

Kurtzman was successful in choosing good show runners, from animated shows to live action. Fans should love him for that.

I'd argue that he was pretty bad at choosing showrunners initially, considering DIS went through two sets before he found Michelle Paradise, and PIC had a different showrunner each season.

 

[Tuskin38]

and why any rewatch of SNW I do will always be incomplete.

 

[Quantum21]

Season 1 of the Magicians had some aspects which didn't quite align with what the show became. The show lightened up its tone a lot, and also became more fourth-wall breaking over time. There was also a "teen drama" aspect of that season that I disliked. It was book-accurate, but given they aged up the characters from the books (where they start college at 18, whereas in the series it's grad school) it felt tonally wrong for the setting.



I'd argue that he was pretty bad at choosing showrunners initially, considering DIS went through two sets before he found Michelle Paradise, and PIC had a different showrunner each season.

Not really, the show was a massive success, and he took co-control of the show after they left, giving us Michelle Paradise's character driven, Gene Roddenberry style ideals in her reign.

Picard's show runners were also successful, Chabon is a great writer and moved on to develop a story for his own novel because Picard of thst. Regardless if Picard season 3 is lesser to me than most, it's considered a success too. I enjoyed most of season 2 as well, but having Matalas/Akiva/Chabon basically do a third of the show each hurt the coherency somewhat.

Akiva has moved on from one success to the other, birthing Discovery, Picard and the fantastic SNW.

I'm not a big fan of Lower Decks but I like Mike McMahan.

Aaron Waltke and Mike Hageman are Emmy winners and enthusiastic fans.

 

[cooleddie74]

I never saw THE MAGICIANS. I had no idea musicals were such a thing for him. Now I know who to blame for "Subspace Rhapsody" and why any rewatch of SNW I do will always be incomplete.

I grew up in a family that frequently watched musicals and played musical soundtracks on our home sound systems - plus I routinely catch myself singing songs from my favorite film musical - so "Subspace Rhapsody" doesn't bother me. There's a technobabble-based, in-universe reason for why it all happens to the crew so I'm good with it.

 

[evilchumlee]

I wonder what the pre-COVID PIC2 was like? But, I guess that's a discussion for a different forum.

It sounds like it was less Covid and more Paramount saying their ideas were "too Star Trek" so they pivoted.

People often say nobody hates more Star Trek than the fans, but that's not true. Nobody hates Star Trek more than the executives in charge of Star Trek.

 

[Yistaan]

It sounds like it was less Covid and more Paramount saying their ideas were "too Star Trek" so they pivoted.

People often say nobody hates more Star Trek than the fans, but that's not true. Nobody hates Star Trek more than the executives in charge of Star Trek.

You might be onto something. Say what you will about how that other Star franchise has been bungling along, but Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau do seem to genuinely like Star Wars and are big fans of it. Terry Matalas is probably the closest equivalent to them for Trek.

Otherwise whole periods of Trek seem to be run by people who don't even seem to be fans of the franchise and are more concerned about "reinventing" it (basically what Rian Johnson was for Star Wars). I'd argue JJ Abrams also didn't seem to like Trek much at all outside the demands of his job going by his interviews when he was with Trek.

 

[evilchumlee]

You might be onto something. Say what you will about how that other Star franchise has been bungling along, but Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau do seem to genuinely like Star Wars and are big fans of it. Terry Matalas is probably the closest equivalent to them for Trek.

It goes further than the showrunners. The higher powers hate it. When CBS was the big rightsholder it was no secret that Les Moonves actively disliked sci-fi in general.

Otherwise whole periods of Trek seem to be run by people who don't even seem to be fans of the franchise and are more concerned about "reinventing" it (basically what Rian Johnson was for Star Wars). I'd argue JJ Abrams also didn't seem to like Trek much at all outside the demands of his job going by his interviews when he was with Trek.

It goes on and off. I think Berman and Bragga were invested. They catch alot of crap from fans, but I think the ire should be mostly be aimed at the studios.

Having a fan in charge isn't always necessarily the best thing, but to me it's preferable to a Rian Johnson or Fuller type who mostly wants to do their own thing with the thing and just disregard anything else.