Spoilers Star Trek biggest problem is Alex Kurtzman

[Dales]

I have seen discovery season 1 and 2 and I am watching Picard and both shows both suffer from the Alex Kurtzman lack of great talent problems.

Thing is Alex is a generic writer and story teller. most of his work is superficial at best. he is not capable of writing deep drama or coming out with a complex multi layered plot. all he knows is generic easy plot and paper thin science fiction and having a lot of action scenes. As a creator , I will not put him on the same wave length as Christopher Nolan , Norah Hawley, Alfonso Cuarón or some of the past best star trek writers that wrote episodes like yesterday's enterprise or the measure of a man.

Alex lack of talent is severely hurting this new trek shows. discovery season 2 overall story plot was mediocre and too predictable for words. it had lots of action you only see in mcu and transformers movies. Picard is almost the same thing. the first episode already had two shallow cool action fight scene because this is what Alex is about. the plot of Picard gets thiner and more predictable with each episode.

Looking at Kurtzman track record. the only thing good or even kind of good thing his name has ever been on was star trek 2009. No offence but I think it was a bad idea of the guy who wrote the transformers movies, wrote and directed the mummy, wrote star trek into darkness, cowboy and aliens, amazing spiderman 2 to be the head show runner of star trek.

discovery and Picard are generic sci fi shows and are no where the best of star trek: TNG, DS9 and TOS and it is all down to Alex Kurtzman not been a good fit for star trek.

in Hollywood the Alex Kurtzman and Robert Orci partnership is one of the worst writing teams you could ever hire. 90% of there work barely gets any critical acclaim. Puting one of them as the master maker of star trek was a bad idea.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Hmm, maybe your lack of enjoyment is just you and not Kurtzman's fault at all.

 

[Dales]

Hmm, maybe your lack of enjoyment is just you and not Kurtzman's fault at all.

my lack of enjoyment is been spoiled by trek been run by the guy who can only do generic driven action story with paper thin plot in film and TV. this is not good star trek

 

[Visitor1982]

Why post the same thread twice?

Kurtzman and Orci don't work together anymore. Kurtzman wrote very little for season 1 and 2 of Discovery.

I guess you want Berman Trek. Well, those days are gone.

Trek changes every now and then. Get used to it or stop watching is my advice.

 

[Muji]

There’s some serious factual errors in your post and you’re basing your argument on them. It’s fine for you not to like the new Trek shows. Blaming the writing on somebody who has barely put pen to paper is a bit dodgy. To be honest, though; this argument is done to death. It’s boring and repetitive and I think we, as fans, need to be a bit more rational. If you don’t like it, don’t watch it. If enough people do that, they’ll cancel the shows and get rid of Kurtzman. Hell, if you’re really lucky we will never have an episode of Trek again. We can then sit there watching the perfection of Kirk-Fu and fawning over the CGI showing Odo turn into a puddle.

 

[Dales]

Why post the same thread twice?

Kurtzman and Orci don't work together anymore. Kurtzman wrote very little for season 1 and 2 of Discovery.

I guess you want Berman Trek. Well, those days are gone.

Trek changes every now and then. Get used to it or stop watching is my advice.

the problem both concerns discovery and Picard. I find it hard to stop watching it because I like trek. but it is a little hard watching a trek show when you know you have seen superior trek and you know the show will forever be limited because the show's runner has limited writing talents.

discovery and picard feel like guilty pleasure star trek worth watching.

 

[Tarek71]

Use the Wayback Machine. Go to Trek BBS 1999, 2000, 2001. I was posting there, albeit with a different screen name. T'Lar, or whatever I called myself then. In any case, saying Berman or "B&B" was to define what was wrong with Trek. I am not a fan of Kurtzman. I dont think he is a very good writer, showrunner or franchise runner. But I just don't buy that every day before this was a better day than today. That every iteration of Trek was superior to the one that came after it.

Given the last 20 years of "golden age" television, I dont think any Trek show belongs in that company. Picard has it's issues. But this sort of foggy, well meaning, but often selective and mis-remembered nostalgic image of the past I can't accept. I invite anyone to rewatch the past shows. The campy, the silly, the dreadful writing, the convenient 5 minute end of episode techno babble solutions and see if maybe the rosy patina of memory has not made the past seem better and prettier than it really was.

 

[Relayer1]

I'm finding a lot to enjoy in both Discovery and Picard.

Looking exclusively at Picard, I don't see a lack of depth compared to the often superficial treatment TNG gave us.

And then you hold up 2009 as some sort of achievement...

 

[Gov Kodos]

the problem both concerns discovery and Picard. I find it hard to stop watching it because I like trek. but it is a little hard watching a trek show when you know you have seen superior trek and you know the show will forever be limited because the show's runner has limited writing talents.

discovery and picard feel like guilty pleasure star trek worth watching.

You saw Trek you enjoyed more. I loathed TNG and a lot of the rest was mediocre and no better than Disco. I do like Picard so far more than most apart from TOS. Picard is hitting in the TOS ballpark for entertaining me.

Kurtzman has had a pretty decent success rate. It could be you just don't like it and it's not his fault.

 

[Cyrus]

People used to say the same thing about Rick Berman. Didn't agree with it then, don't agree now either. Kurtzman is not doing much writing if any at all. Kurtzman is doing fine at his job, hiring good writers like Chabon and putting them in charge. He is not a problem.

 

[Jesse1066]

No love for Mission: Impossible III? I thought it was a lot better than Brannon Braga and Ronald D Moore's Mission: Impossible 2.

 

[Dales]

Use the Wayback Machine. Go to Trek BBS 1999, 2000, 2001. I was posting there, albeit with a different screen name. T'Lar, or whatever I called myself then. In any case, saying Berman or "B&B" was to define what was wrong with Trek. I am not a fan of Kurtzman. I dont think he is a very good writer, showrunner or franchise runner. But I just don't buy that every day before this was a better day than today. That every iteration of Trek was superior to the one that came after it.

.

well we agree on something, believe me when I say this is becoming a big problem that is hurting all of today's trek. its like kurtzman wants to make trek appeal to this MCU and modern comic book crowd.

no he is not a very good writer, I think he is an okay franchise runner but its the writing of the new trek shows that are just terrible compared to the best we have seen.

 

[Muji]

Use the Wayback Machine. Go to Trek BBS 1999, 2000, 2001. I was posting there, albeit with a different screen name. T'Lar, or whatever I called myself then. In any case, saying Berman or "B&B" was to define what was wrong with Trek. I am not a fan of Kurtzman. I dont think he is a very good writer, showrunner or franchise runner. But I just don't buy that every day before this was a better day than today. That every iteration of Trek was superior to the one that came after it.

Given the last 20 years of "golden age" television, I dont think any Trek show belongs in that company. Picard has it's issues. But this sort of foggy, well meaning, but often selective and mis-remembered nostalgic image of the past I can't accept. I invite anyone to rewatch the past shows. The campy, the silly, the dreadful writing, the convenient 5 minute end of episode techno babble solutions and see if maybe the rosy patina of memory has not made the past seem better and prettier than it really was.

Excellent post. I watch Episodes of Star Trek pretty much all year round. I finished watching in release order last year, had a break and now I’m watching in chronological order this year. I’d love to visit and alternative reality where TNG is released now, just to see what fans actually think of it. Watching most of TOS and TNG is a bit of a struggle now. So much of Trek is technically pretty poor, it’s the overarching ideas and universe that I love. Not the brilliance of the writing in TNG or DS9.

 

[Dales]

People used to say the same thing about Rick Berman. Didn't agree with it then, don't agree now either. Kurtzman is not doing much writing if any at all. Kurtzman is doing fine at his job, hiring good writers like Chabon and putting them in charge. He is not a problem.

Kurtzman is the head runner, he may not be doing the writing but he is coming up with the story and over seeing the writing. Picard and Discovery are his vision of star trek and all I see is forgettable generic sci if shows that will not hold up in 5 years talk of 30 years like TNG has.

I am scared to watch The Expense as I have heard so many strong good things about it. watching it may make me now start using to hate word to define this new trek and I am not ready for that.

No love for Mission: Impossible III? I thought it was a lot better than Brannon Braga and Ronald D Moore's Mission: Impossible 2.

90% of his writing work are critically panned. I think Trek 09 and MI IIII are the only exceptions. thing is his body of work was not good enough to handle the trek franchise.

 

[Muji]

well we agree on something, believe me when I say this is becoming a big problem that is hurting all of today's trek. its like kurtzman wants to make trek appeal to this MCU and modern comic book crowd.

no he is not a very good writer, I think he is an okay franchise runner but its the writing of the new trek shows that are just terrible compared to the best we have seen.

I suspect that you’re not really qualified to judge what is good or bad writing, but either way the fact that remains is that Kurtzman has written virtually none of Picard and very little of Discovery. It’s like blaming Michael Angelo of the world of Banksy.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Kurtzman is the head runner, he may not be doing the writing but he is coming up with the story and over seeing the writing. Picard and Discovery are his vision of star trek and all I see is forgettable generic sci if shows that will not hold up in 5 years talk of 30 years like TNG has.

I am scared to watch The Expense as I have heard so many strong good things about it. watching it may make me now start using to hate word to define this new trek and I am not ready for that.

You say that like you sit in on production meetings.

 

[DaveyNY]

Yet another thread about Why I Hate Modern Trek.
Kurtzman isn't the problem, the problem is folks who won't let go of what ever version of Trek they love, but was produced over twenty years or more ago.

Those days are never coming back and neither is that style of story-telling.
Time to adjust your thinking or get out your DVD's.

That's just the way it is now..., Love it or Leave it.


IBTL

 

[Visitor1982]

TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT all had some very great moments, but it had a lot of turds as well. Some people seem to forget that. Whilst DIS and PIC maybe do not have a lot of classic great episodes, it has a lot less filler and turds. It's more balanced.

Yeah, the writing is sometimes a bit 'out there' and it is less philosophical, but times have changed.

TNG took forever to find its footing. DS9's first seasons were boring as hell. VOY had an interesting premise, but became TNG 2.0 quite soon. ENT, another interesting premise which turned into VOY 2.0.

I'm enjoying Discovery and Picard. Does it get me emotionally, like some of the DS9 episodes I saw for the first time back then? No, it doesn't (yet). But each week I can't wait to see the next episode and that does mean something.

I expect the 3rd and 4th seasons of Discovery to have some great moments, just like TNG and DS9 had. We'll see.

 

[Tarek71]

well we agree on something, believe me when I say this is becoming a big problem that is hurting all of today's trek. its like kurtzman wants to make trek appeal to this MCU and modern comic book crowd.

no he is not a very good writer, I think he is an okay franchise runner but its the writing of the new trek shows that are just terrible compared to the best we have seen.

Listen to how you worded that. "the writing of the new trek shows that are just terrible compared to the best we have seen".

You mean compared to the best single episodes cherrypicked out of over 700? Or do you mean the first 5 episodes of Picard are "terrible" compared to the first 5 episodes of ENT, VOY, TNG, DS9 and TOS? If you mean the former, I agree. Though "terrible" is too strong.

But if you mean the latter, that is something I cannot agree too. I have recently started rewatching the 1st seasons of the other shows exactly for this reason, and IMHO, PIcard does very well by the comparison. There is some painful cringe in the early episodes of other Trek shows.

 

[Pindar]

Wait, wait, I though MegaDoomCockKnocker said Kurtzman was out!

Don't tell me his third firing didn't stick!