Spock and Savik

[Therin of Andor]

Why is everyone saying the half romulan aspect of her character was taken out? I remember that from the movies, so I don't see where the "removal" is.

It was removed. Never released in cinemas or on video or DVD. The line about Saavik being half-Romulan only appeared in the MediaWest*Con long presentation trailer (before the movie's release), and her hybrid heritage was expanded upon in the ST II novelization, the post-ST II DC comic storyline, and the original novel "The Pandora Principle", but not the theatrical version, nor even the TV version or DVD DE.

IIRC, They did have a kid, at least in the novelization of the movie.

You recall incorrectly.

and in some of the books written after that, the child plays an important role as an adult. I can't really say more then that unfortunately, it's been a while since I've read the books.

You dreamt it.

A Mirror Universe Spock daughter appeared in the novel "Spectre" by William Shatner and the Reeves-Stevens. T'Val was a Resistance fighter.

Spock and Saavik marry in the Josepha Sherman & Susan Shwartz novel, "Vulcan's Heart". A more recent novel, "Crucible: Spock", offers a different future for our Spock and an offspring, but he and Saavik do not produce a child, nor have a relationship beyond their professional one.

 

[Kaziarl]

Well I wouldn't know anything in regards to the trailer, I think the movie came out before I was born. (Not sure of the original premier date) But I'm fairly certain I recall it atleast spoken once. I'll go watch the movies again to jog my memory.

 

[Therin of Andor]

But I'm fairly certain I recall it at least spoken once. I'll go watch the movies again to jog my memory.

Your memory is in error.

 

[Kaziarl]

It doesn't hurt to double check.

 

[cardinal biggles]

You just wanted an excuse to watch Wrath of Khan again, didn't you?

 

[Kaziarl]

that too

 

[maryh]

Nobody thinks a half logical Vulcan, quarter emotional Human and quarter passionate Romulan, probably raised on Vulcan by the intimidating Sarek would have been an interesting character?

If Saavik had been the betrayer on TUC, she would have been jettisoned as a character except to mine borite on some remote colony. Sela was hokey enough yet alone Saavik. Now that really would be soap operaish.

Characters and their relationships to each other among dramatic events is what ST was about. We needed new, compelling, dynamic characters to take over the aging ones. Introduction through the originals would have made them loved merely by association. The old crew should have brought in the new crew. As missed opportunity IMO.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Characters and their relationships to each other among dramatic events is what ST was about. We needed new, compelling, dynamic characters to take over the aging ones. Introduction through the originals would have made them loved merely by association. The old crew should have brought in the new crew. As missed opportunity IMO.

A new crew was among the earliest concepts for TWOK when it was a television movie and through the various script versions. In some cases, there would've been a "new" face to eventually fill the jobs of the original cast. It was also something built into the Phase II premise with the addition of Decker (Kirk's eventual successor due to Shatner's salary), Xon and Ilia.

Saavik originally was Dr. Savik, a male Vulcan doctor. She was the only one to survive the previous scripts along with David Kirk/Marcus.

 

[Kryton]

I need to pull out and review the "Phase II" book...it's been a lot of years.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I need to pull out and review the "Phase II" book...it's been a lot of years.

There's a brief mention and partial quote, I think, from Shatner on the subject. Decker was created to replace Kirk, who would have a reduced role had the series gone past it's initial 13 episode order. Shatner states that he'd appear in fewer episodes, which would reduce his salary, or Kirk would've been killed thereby ensure that Shatner wouldn't get any money.

I've always wondered what Trek would've been like had that series gone forward. Perhaps we'd have seen a new trinity of Decker, Ilia and Xon rather than the Kirk, Spock and McCoy dynamic.

 

[Kryton]

Xon?!? That pussyboy pretending to be a human on Epsilon 9? NEVER!

 

[JoeZhang]

I've always wondered what Trek would've been like had that series gone forward. Perhaps we'd have seen a new trinity of Decker, Ilia and Xon rather than the Kirk, Spock and McCoy dynamic.

If I remember correctly, Persis Khambatta had been cast as Ilia in Phase II, so the answer would be "no".

How can you create a trinity when one of your actors couldn't act their way out of a paperbag?

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Xon?!? That pussyboy pretending to be a human on Epsilon 9? NEVER!

Maybe he'd have been Decker's bitch spawning a new kind of slash fiction, D/X or X/D.

 

[Red Ranger]

Characters and their relationships to each other among dramatic events is what ST was about. We needed new, compelling, dynamic characters to take over the aging ones. Introduction through the originals would have made them loved merely by association. The old crew should have brought in the new crew. As missed opportunity IMO.

A new crew was among the earliest concepts for TWOK when it was a television movie and through the various script versions. In some cases, there would've been a "new" face to eventually fill the jobs of the original cast. It was also something built into the Phase II premise with the addition of Decker (Kirk's eventual successor due to Shatner's salary), Xon and Ilia.

Saavik originally was Dr. Savik, a male Vulcan doctor. She was the only one to survive the previous scripts along with David Kirk/Marcus.

Hmm. I guess that was the genesis -- pun intended -- of Kirk's line to McCoy when the good doctor says it would be better just to put an experienced crew on the ship. Kirk replies that gallivanting around the cosmos is a game for the young! And if you think of it, the idea was transferred to TNG, as Picard & Co. are the "successors" to the original Enterprise. -- RR

 

[Red Ranger]

Xon?!? That pussyboy pretending to be a human on Epsilon 9? NEVER!

Maybe he'd have been Decker's bitch spawning a new kind of slash fiction, D/X or X/D.

Yuck! But entirely plausible, given ST fandom! -- RR

 

[Kryton]

On the Flintstones, his name would've been "David Got-Rocks" and he'd be loaded for life.

(I shouldn't tease...he really almost became an iconic character.)

 

[Therin of Andor]

the only one to survive the previous scripts along with David Kirk/Marcus.

David was originally David Wallace, son of Jim Kirk and Dr Janet Wallace (of "The Deadly Years") until it was remembered that there was a husband Wallace on the home front - and they didn't want Kirk to look like a total homewrecker. Thus Janet became Dr Carol Marcus.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Nobody thinks a half logical Vulcan, quarter emotional Human and quarter passionate Romulan, probably raised on Vulcan by the intimidating Sarek would have been an interesting character?

The question such speculation always arises in me is how much culture plays a part in someone being a "Vulcan" or a "Romulan" as opposed to biology/physiology. My thought is that such a child raised on Vulcan would probably be as Vulcan as any other child raised there in the Vulcan tradition. (barring the occational teasing by Vulcan bullies) The same would hold true for such a child raised on Romulas. I think Saavik's aborted background included some time spent with Romulans during her formative years, which would create a Romulan vs Vulcan dichotomy in her but not a child raised on Vulcan.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Xon?!? That pussyboy pretending to be a human on Epsilon 9? NEVER!

Maybe he'd have been Decker's bitch spawning a new kind of slash fiction, D/X or X/D.

Yuck! But entirely plausible, given ST fandom! -- RR

You know it. Trekkers are a sick, sick bunch of folks. Now us Trekkies, we're okay just the usual hardcore stuff for us.

 

[maryh]

Nobody thinks a half logical Vulcan, quarter emotional Human and quarter passionate Romulan, probably raised on Vulcan by the intimidating Sarek would have been an interesting character?

The question such speculation always arises in me is how much culture plays a part in someone being a "Vulcan" or a "Romulan" as opposed to biology/physiology. My thought is that such a child raised on Vulcan would probably be as Vulcan as any other child raised there in the Vulcan tradition. (barring the occational teasing by Vulcan bullies) The same would hold true for such a child raised on Romulas. I think Saavik's aborted background included some time spent with Romulans during her formative years, which would create a Romulan vs Vulcan dichotomy in her but not a child raised on Vulcan.

I think people are always trying to humanize all the different alien species and claiming their culture is responsible for how the aliens behave but I think otherwise. I think physiology has a lot to do with why a culture exists in the first place.

Vulcans and Romulans might have been from the same stock but look at some of the differences. Romulans are not touch telepaths, they can't compute in their heads like Vulcans, they don't have those perfect eidetic memories, they don't seem to go into healing trances, or have those internal built in clocks like the Vulcans do etc. I believe most of these differences are physiological in nature - since the races separated, their brains have evolved different from each other and they are inherently different based upon differing brain anatomy.

Same with Humans verses Vulcans. IMO Vulcans are by nature more logical and less emotional than humans and this is in part based on physiology. I also think a human could not suppress emotion their whole life - or they'd go nuts and be extremely psychologically screwed up. I think massive differences exist between the differing species shown in ST and they are strongly affected by the differing physiology of the species. Makes the hybrids unpredictable and highly interesting characters.