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Spock and Savik

A Spock/Savik child

  • Would have been a great plot device. Missed opportunity!

    Votes: 11 39.3%
  • Would have been too 'soap opera' like. Last thing we need is Spock Jr.

    Votes: 17 60.7%

  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .
I think it would have been a terrible idea.

Truly terrible.

I know Nimoy wanted it to happen, but I never really imagined they had sex in TSFS to be honest. I don't know how you get from "finger rubbing" to sex. To me, it looks a non-sexual like a way of controlling his urges.

I just cannot understand how having sex with a rapid-ageing teen reincarnation of a dead vulcan would be the "logical" thing to do... :vulcan:


Logic is suspended during the pon farr, as it is the rise of the the mating instinct, and the giving over control to passion.
 
Ummm...I agree. It would appear that the only one who has a child, since David died, is the only gay character on the show. Not to say that is a bad thing...but very interesting..

Rob

Actually I think the other gayish character, Sulu. has a daughter in some type of spin off (The New Voyages).

Here is a funny interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_jzwHkhtqk

Yep, Sulu was who I was referring to. Malora was in Generations. So, since David died, the only child from the TOS crew we know about 'living' beyond the TOS movies was Malora..

TNG could have introduced the Spock/Savik daughter..that would have bee far better, I think, than the limp UNIFICATION which, I think, was far inferior to Relics

Rob
Scorpio

Looks like some of you need to watch more Trek! I don't even know what everyone is talking about!
 
Actually I think the other gayish character, Sulu. has a daughter in some type of spin off (The New Voyages).

Here is a funny interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_jzwHkhtqk

Yep, Sulu was who I was referring to. Malora was in Generations. So, since David died, the only child from the TOS crew we know about 'living' beyond the TOS movies was Malora..

TNG could have introduced the Spock/Savik daughter..that would have bee far better, I think, than the limp UNIFICATION which, I think, was far inferior to Relics

Rob
Scorpio

Looks like some of you need to watch more Trek! I don't even know what everyone is talking about!

From Wickipedia:

"Demora (played by Mimi Chong) also appears briefly in the Star Trek New Voyages episode "World Enough And Time", visiting her father Captain Hikaru Sulu on the Excelsior."

Scorpio simply got her name wrong calling her Malora instead.
 
I suppose Saavik fell asllep after hours of finger-rubbing.:rolleyes:

It was written and acted (without showing anything) as if she had mated with Spock several times. That is why she gives the embarrassed look to Spock at the end. They even filmed a scene for TVH that was cut where Saavik stays behind because of her pregnancy.

The wisdom of this sub-plot is debatable but it happened.

I think it was a terrible idea for a movie series because there'd be no time to explore it during 2 hours every two years of movie cycles.
For a series of course that would be another matter.
 
"Shown on screen" :lol:

Man you are just so full of it. i guess you wouldn't have gotten the implications of any sex in any movie during the 'hayes code era'

Just because you don't have the perception to see that they were clearly impling they had sex doesn't mean it wasn't implied or didn't happen.

Back in the day everyone i spoke to who saw the movie got the point. It was mentioned at convertions and it was talked about during the build-up to TVH.

Just because they decided to not go with it in TVH final cut doesn't mean that it didn't happen in TSFS. It did. They had sex. Nimoy has said this at conventions.

And Pon Farr is about sex---not finger rubbing--she was simply trying to calm him before the act. He would not have survived without it--unless they got into a brawl like Kirk/spock in Amok Time.

And now or course someone will say, "perhaps they did fight, since we didn't see it. Saavik wasn't sleeping from all the sex she was knocked out by Spock in a fight" :lol:
 
I don't think to many would argue that they didn't do the deed.
You'd have to be pretty uptight or just a "if it wasn't shown on screen or directly refeered to--it didn't happen" type of person.:rolleyes:

My first con in 1985 had Walter fielding many questions about what would come of their sex and he said, "she had the baby but had trouble during the delivery with the ears" :lol:

The fact that they didn't decide to say she was pregnant in the final cut of TVH (or thereafter) doesn't mean she wasn't--we never saw her again by the way. And it certainly doesn't mean they didn't have sex if she didn't get pregnant--sometimes that happens too, thank god.
 
Some of you need to get out more often! the amount of thought given to something never seen is amazing.

I bet sex offenders in prison think about such things on a less frequent basis.
 
I think it would have been a terrible idea.

Truly terrible.

I know Nimoy wanted it to happen, but I never really imagined they had sex in TSFS to be honest. I don't know how you get from "finger rubbing" to sex. To me, it looks a non-sexual like a way of controlling his urges.

I just cannot understand how having sex with a rapid-ageing teen reincarnation of a dead vulcan would be the "logical" thing to do... :vulcan:


Logic is suspended during the pon farr, as it is the rise of the the mating instinct, and the giving over control to passion.

I thought that the "finger rubbing" (no relation to banging) was a means to establish intimacy. As shown in "Journey to Babel," it is the means by which a husband and wife connect. In other words, the scene in TSFS was foreplay.

Saavik was a missed opportunity as a character.

Oh, fo' sure. Kryton is right, Nimoy's biggest mistake in this film was taking away Saavik's half-Romulan heritage which so informed Alley's performance of the character even though the line was cut. It made the character unique in the same way the Spock character was unique. And hell, I liked Robin Curtis in the role and wanted to see what she could do given time to develop the character over the reminder of the film series.

Saavik's character was greatly used in the first and second DC comics run of TOS. I especially thought they did well to establish a similar conflict between her and Kirk that the latter would've had with Xon in Phase II. In the early issues, Kirk got frustrated that Saavik wasn't Spock.
 
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Let's be honest, Nomoy simply didn't want a vulcan character anywhere near as interesting as Spock. Full vulcans are generaaly boring unless they are experiencing some crisis. The Spock character was so cool because he was battling his two sides.

Saavik in TWOK was doing the same thing except with an even more war-like Romulan heritage being contained.

TSFS turned her into a boring full Vulcan who showed no emotion whatsoever after David was killed--either anger of grief and by the time of
TVH she was fit only for a walk-on and then to be jettisoned forever..

As for Valeris, she seems to me to be Saavik in everything except name. Only instead of restraining her latent emotions as in TWOK she is actively using them to justify her misdeeds. So instead of being the barely under control saavik of TWOK--she's the very much under the control of her calculating Romulan side.
Really now, the preference for all-out galactic war and all its unforseen consequences to the perils of peace negotiations???
Not at all a Vulcan pacifist following the ways of Surak.

Too bad Kirste Alley coundn't see the upside of taking her character in this dark direction. The audience really would have been stunned by that revalation instead of, "Oh the new crewperson is a traitor."
 
Having Saavik trying to be a Vulcan when dealing with her Romulan side would have been...well, fascinating. It was a limit to her character for this to be cut out.

I'm glad Saavik didn't end up being a traitor but I agree, her being the traitor would have made things far more dramatic and hard-hitting in ST VI.
 
Terrible idea, and I voted appropriately. Glad they dropped that idea. Myself, I guessed she just used her abilities to help stabilize the rapidly aging Spock's agitated state in pon farr. -- RR
 
I think that since Merritt Buttrick was gay (and, sadly, died from AIDS), it's been widely speculated David Marcus was gay.

Which is fine, but not canonical.

True, it's not canonical, but in the original print of TWOK, there is clearly an attraction between David and Saavik.

Also, the original plan for TSFS was that Spock and Saavik have sex and that she subsequently became pregnant. In an interview I read before TVH, DeForest Kelly joked that McCoy would have trouble delivering Saavik's child because of its ears.

That was the plan, to plant a seed (LOL!) for a future ST film. It's the same reason for the "Remember" line in TWOK. Originally, Bennett and Meyer didn't know what they'd use that for, but they put it in there just in case. It's the same thing with Spock and Saavik having sex (and I think it's obviosu that it did happen, they were engagin in Vulcan foreplay and Spock was going through Pon Farr, that was the intent of that scene).

Why did Saavik remain on Vulcan in TVH with Amanda? Because she was with child. In the end, they chose not to follow up on this storyline in the last two original cast films. It's a real shame, but, in my mind anyway, I don't see why it couldn't have happened anyway. Add in that line in the TNG episode Sarek about Picard attending Sarek's sons wedding to the above facts and the intentions of Nimoy and Bennet with TSFS and TVH's screenplays and there's circumstantial evidence that Spock knocked Saavik up.

I wish they could've done something with that, but Shatner did his own thing with TFF (he gave Spock a brother instead of a son), which sucked and they had too much other stuff in TUC. I doubt we'll see Spock's son or daughter in XI, but, again, there's enough evidence for me, along with the writers' intent, to believe Spock had a child with Saavik.
 
Why is everyone saying the half romulan aspect of her character was taken out? I remember that from the movies, so I don't see where the "removal" is. As for the topic at hand. IIRC, They did have a kid, atleast in the novelization of the movie. and in some of the books written after that, the child plays an important role as an adult. I can't really say more then that unfortunately, it's been a while since I've read the books.
 
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