Opinions about Trip and T'Pol

[Middleman]

in an other hand, she was very critical about the show which makes her famous.

IMO, she will never get an acting gig as good as Enterprise again. She was blessed to be a part of this franchise. Never bite the hand that feeds you.

i think if we have to search problems between the actors, we could look between jolene and linda. i read an interview (don't remember where) where linda said a lot of nice things about the others and when she talked about jolene, she said :"uhmm.... complex".

I read that quote as well, but I don't think it was just Linda who felt that way. Based on what I heard Dominic Keating say at a convention in NJ last year, most of the cast found her "Complex". The male chauvinist in me feels that any woman as beautiful as Jolene Blalock, can't be easy to deal with.

 

[Middleman]

Thanks, Middleman for clearing that all up!

My pleasure.

 

[Middleman]

In Gone With the Wind Clark Gable and Vivian Leigh couldn't stand each other - she said he had terrible stinky breath, but it worked didn't it?

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the strong similarities in the romances of Rhett & Scarlett with Trip & T'Pol. Nice to hear there were off screen similarities as well.

 

[Penguin]

That crack jolene made about Trip being a Catfish eating Redneck honky tonk guy was made very early in the series (Season 1) frankly I think that jolene was trying tobe a bit of a smart Ass there and had to back pedal on it. She probably shot her mouth off and was called on it as it reflect4d badly on the show.

It is hard to say what Jolene's and conner's personal relationship really was. As I have said both claimed that they spent a long time working out thier scenes together. that may have just been professionalism.

As for Jolenes taste in men that seemed to have matured and she grew away from the type she chose in her younger years and started to date more mature, successful type of men.

I have an idea that jolene admired Bakula's professionalism and learned from it that is why she admired him not because she was attracted to him as a male.

As mach5 says we each see what we want to see. I guess that is why there is a diference in opinion on many things in this life. for instance I think that Jolene is beautiful others think not. so be it.

To me the actors displayed a great deal of chemistry on screen. that may just have been the actors ability in projecting that chemistry. Takes a good actor to do that.

As someone noted there have been actors who hated one another but on screen sparks flew. Remember Bruce willis and the woamn in that series which I cannot remeber the name of. they hated one another guts but the fans thought they were great together.

I will always be a Trip and t-Pol fan and wish that the series had continued and that the writers could have brought the couple together.

 

[Middleman]

That crack jolene made about Trip being a Catfish eating Redneck honky tonk guy was made very early in the series (Season 1) frankly I think that jolene was trying tobe a bit of a smart Ass there and had to back pedal on it. She probably shot her mouth off and was called on it as it reflect4d badly on the show.

See my posting for the exact quote and the date it was made.
http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3008723&postcount=159

As for Jolenes taste in men that seemed to have matured and she grew away from the type she chose in her younger years and started to date more mature, successful type of men.

I have an idea that jolene admired Bakula's professionalism and learned from it that is why she admired him not because she was attracted to him as a male.

She was quoted as once saying something like Scott Bakula had an amazing body for a guy his age (I don't think anyone would disagree with that). She also said in Playboy that she has an over active libido (what ever that means). in the end, she married the CEO of Live Nation (a pretty wealthy guy) during Enterprise's run.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Isn't this getting just a tad ridiculous?

* "I saw great chemistry!"
** "I didn't see any chemistry..."
*** "Oh, that chemistry was awesome!"
**** "Nah, they were so like oil and water to me..."

Perhaps not "ridiculous," but "beating a dead horse to death" comes to mind.

But when it comes to the kind of friction that suggests potential for *mating* and stuff, there was tones of it between TnT, and none I can think of between A&T.

Poor dead horse.

Now that non-Trip and T'Pol talk has crept into the thread again, it's time for another reminder:

Do not indulge in any T/T vs. A/T'P comparisons and pronounce one "better" or "worse" than the other.

We are talking about personal opinion here, and there is no "right" or "wrong" to an opinion that one holds dear. And with regard to different 'ships, and the passion with which many folks here regard their favorite couple, putting down "the other couple" is disrespectful at best, and trollish at worst. Constructive criticism, backed up by examples, is fine; "My ship is better'n your ship!" is not.

Pluswhich, it's off-topic here.

Each of you is perfectly capable of being respectful of differing points of view, so I expect you to rise to the occasion and be civil.

Let's just "agree to disagree".

Yes. Please. Pretty please. With sugar on top. The horse is dead.

It is hard to say what Jolene's and conner's personal relationship really was.

It is impossible to say, unless you know the actors personally. All this wild speculation about the actors is irrelevant, without direct quotes from the actors themselves (which is likely not the whole story anyway). Only one person has provided sourced quotes (thank you, Middleman); the rest is pointless, and is threatening to turn this thread into a gossip rag.

I suggest we leave the actors' private lives alone, aside from what they have chosen to share with the public through documented interviews and first-hand accounts, and concentrate on the characters. Okay?

 

[commodore64]

Hopeful Romantic, my comment was more toward Middleman who indicated "everyone can agree on the chemsitry between Trip and T'Pol." My point was, "no, we can't all agree." He was talking to Penguin though, as you may've read, so ... it's all good. We're agreeing to disagree. Promise! No sugar needed.

Maybe I didn't read hard enough, but I don't think anyone was comparing T/T'P to A/T'P. ??

Exactly, her thoughts on the Trip character revealed her personal taste in men; Jolene admitted she was a surfer/druggie chick who hung out with the burnouts in San Diego during her teen years- not the the high school cheerleader/prom queen who went for the football jock. She dated Edward Furlong for God's sake!

I don't think so. I think Jolene truly wanted the very best for her character, to be a Vulcan. From TrekWeb:

Would the 30-year-old San Diego native reprise her Vulcan persona? "It all depends on the material. I wish the best for T'Pol, and I don't wish her to be viewed as everything that they made her -- a drug addict, weak woman, confused, lost."

"The concepts with the shows aren't the problem; I think the concepts are amazing," Blalock told the magazine "The issue is the dialogue. I personally believe that T'Pol should have more of her Vulcan culture. I don't believe she should be so desperate to be like everyone else, because the original STAR TREK which I grew up with, had a very simple message that I took from it, and that is that not everyone is like me, and I'm not perfect, and nobody's perfect, and that's okay. That really helped me. I think that T'Pol could be okay with being Vulcan, she shouldn't have to want to be Vulcan. In the dialogue... why is it that when we're trying to teach each other something, all of our analogies involve Earth lore? Don't our cultures have their own lore that might make for good messages."

Ironically, Blalock'a attitude is in line with that of many old-guard TREK fans who see ENTERPRISE as diluting the core elements of the franchise mythology; for Blalock the damage is done in small increments. "In [the first season's] 'Shadows of P'Jem', they made this huge story about how Vulcans were undermining Starfleet and had some kind of agenda, but they never went to readdress it." says Blalock "Then there's this episode in which T'Pol gets sick, terminally ill, and they never readdress it. There's the characteristic where Vulcans don't eat food with their hands, and yet they'll write scenes where T'Pol is eating popcorn at a movie or Trip will bring T'Pol a peach. It's just so strange to me, and I think that as a character you should be okay with who you are and or who you're meant to be."

"You can't substitute tits and ass for good storytelling," she says bluntly. "You can have both, but you can't substitute one for the other, because the audience is not stupid. You can't just throw in frivolous, uncharacteristic... well, bull and think it's gonna help the ratings!"

Because HR has asked us to cite sources (didn't realize this was like college English), I tried to be thorough, not to poke HR, but more to show Jolene's true dedication to TOS and her craft. I think she took being an actress seriously. And I think she truly loved TOS, possibly more than any of her co-workers, including Bakula.

Edit: You know, I also really agree with her. I think she's summed up TOS and her character nicely.

 

[Penguin]

I agree with commodore64. I did not read anyone cmparing T/TP to A/Tp. Far as I know it didn't surface in this thread unless I missed it.

Since Jolene was an outdoor type a surfer and arthletic. It would not be too far offbase that she might be drawn to the athletic type. Connor said he was the outdoor type and a Surfer. So Jolene could have incorporated that in her t-Pol characters relationship with trip they had something in common. they would keep their bodies healthy by exercise.

Since this is opinions about Trip and t-Pol I would think that the writers and producers opinions about the characters would add to the thread.

Actuallly how can one discuss the characters without discussing the actors who protrayed them. the actors background would influence how the actor played the part.

IMHO

 

[commodore64]

I don't mind talking about the actors, but ... maybe we can be respectful and keep it about Trip/T'Pol (like their opinions about the relationship, their chemistry, etc.)?

Since Jolene was an outdoor type a surfer and arthletic. It would not be too far offbase that she might be drawn to the athletic type. Connor said he was the outdoor type and a Surfer. So Jolene could have incorporated that in her t-Pol characters relationship with trip they had something in common. they would keep their bodies healthy by exercise.

I'm not sure I understand. By that logic, I think the rest of the cast would also be drawn to Jolene and vice versa. Anthony was a workout guy, Scott did outdoorsy stuff (he is Mister Outdoorsy like there isn't a sport he hasn't tried, including water polo -- who the hell has played water polo?!), etc.

Again, I think Jolene wanted the best for her character and didn't look at other actors and think, "Oh, he works out. I hope my character gets with him." On the plus side, I think the cast generally got along. No one has come out years later to trash anyone else. I see that as positive -- both that the cast has their "stuff" together and that everyone was generally pretty nice. I think they all worked out, being fit individuals and generally enjoyed each others' company.

On an other hand, she was very critical about the show which makes her famous.

I think to a certain extent Middleman is right about Jolene having a great gig on Enterprise. I doubt many of the crew will get the same kind of gig, but simply for the reasons of "it's hard getting a gig in LA." Scott Bakula seems to be the epitome of a diplomat on shows and I gotta be honest -- it drives me crazy. I wonder what he's really thinking. (But according to other actors, he's genuinely a very nice man.) I do wish he had as much passion for Enterprise as Jolene did. I don't mean going to bat with the network heads (which he did) or loving the franchise (which he did), but thinking and saying, "Damnit, I wish Archer would ...."

Besides, I think Jolene was pretty much spot on with every interview, not just her feelings about where T'Pol landed in the finale. Again, she cared. I really admire that.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Maybe I didn't read hard enough, but I don't think anyone was comparing T/T'P to A/T'P. ??

Example: the Dead Horse "chemistry" discussion.

There's a big difference between saying "I didn't see any chemistry between those two characters" (expressing your opinion--cool) and "There was no chemistry between those two characters" (misstating opinion as fact, thereby dissing everyone who has expressed an opposing viewpoint--uncool).

And if you say "This couple had faaaaabulous chemistry , whereas the other couple had all the chemistry of two lumps of coal "...well, now you're comparing, plus misstating opinion as fact. If you do it enough, someone will get bent out of shape. I know, because I've seen it happen.

Actuallly how can one discuss the characters without discussing the actors who protrayed them.

It depends on what you're discussing, and whether you have firsthand knowledge of what you're referring to, or you're just spreading a rumor you heard. Heresay statements often contradict each other, while interview sources, if not actual spot-on quotes, can keep a discussion from turning into a rumor mill.

It also depends on whether discussion of the actors' personal lives has any bearing on the topic at hand. When I read this

I don't expect the entire cast to be totally in love with each other.

which begets this

I personally got the impression that Connor and Jolene didn't like each other at all

which leads to this

Connor played college football before turning to acting, so I'm guessing he was a good enough player in high school to get an atheletic scholarship- the jock who was on the top tier of the high school social strata- the type of guy Jolene doesn't go for.

and then for some reason we arrive here

i think if we have to search problems between the actors, we could look between jolene and linda.

and here

As for Jolenes taste in men that seemed to have matured and she grew away from the type she chose in her younger years and started to date more mature, successful type of men.

...

What in the sam hill does Ms. Blalock's love life, or to what extent she got along with other cast members, have to do with Trip and T'Pol? Who knows? Who cares? If you want to gossip about the actors, take it to PM, or a chat room. It's not relevant here.

 

[Middleman]

What in the sam hill does Ms. Blalock's love life, or to what extent she got along with other cast members, have to do with Trip and T'Pol? Who knows? Who cares? If you want to gossip about the actors, take it to PM, or a chat room. It's not relevant here.

I think the answer to that is pretty clear and actually an integral part of the topic: How can an actor play a role or a scene when they don't agree with it? What brought the subject up was Jolene's comment "I don't know what to think about that. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that some catfish-eating, honky-tonk guy would be appealing to this serene character, personally". The conversation then went along the lines of "was she placing her personal values or in this case, her taste in men, on the character? This lead to a discussion of these values and tastes based on info available in her public bio and statements she has made. The discussion was civil, respectful (to both posters and the actors), is tied to the topic and broke no published rules that I know of. I wouldn't be so quick to put the "hammer down" on the conversation. IMO you are confining us into too small of a box.

 

[commodore64]

Example: the Dead Horse "chemistry" discussion.

There's a big difference between saying "I didn't see any chemistry between those two characters" (expressing your opinion--cool) and "There was no chemistry between those two characters" (misstating opinion as fact, thereby dissing everyone who has expressed an opposing viewpoint--uncool).

I think we got that loud and clear, and I think it was all just a misunderstanding. I didn't see the reference to A/T'P in there though. You know I've been rather pleased no one has said, "Trip and T'Pol had better chemistry than Archer and T'Pol" or vice versa. I actually think that's something to celebrate, and I thank the folks in this thread for straying from that.

On the "they had wonderful chemistry" and "they didn't have any chemistry at all" -- I hope by this point people understand most of what we type here is opinion. I think the difference between opinion and fact is 99% pretty clear. It's probably why you asked us to cite sources to help. For example, the THUGS thread is subjective. I don't post there because in my opinion, Connor is a good actor, but not a great one and he's handsome without being wildly hot. Chemistry, favorite characters, our perception of their acting ability, attractiveness -- these things are all subjective.

My only objection is when people type, "We can all agree ...." In this particular thread, as stated above, Middleman wasn't saying "We can all agree," he was talking with Penguin, saying "we can agree." Yes, he and Penguin agree. I can disagree, and you're right -- I'm going to do so quietly when it's obvious. For example, I didn't respond to Mach 5.

Middleman, I think it's a little misguided to say, "Jolene and [insert actor here] were friends or Jolene and [insert actor here] both liked to surf, thus, she wanted her character to get with his." Maybe that's what HR is saying? I also don't mind talking about the actors, and I realize this is someone's opinion, but .... Then again, I'm personally willing to weed through those opinions (as long as they're respectful) to get to something I would like to talk about. I think that's the majority of the BBS anyway, no matter the forum or thread. We respond to things that pique our interest, whether we agree or disagree.

 

[Middleman]

Middleman, I think it's a little misguided to say, "Jolene and [insert actor here] were friends or Jolene and [insert actor here] both liked to surf, thus, she wanted her character to get with his." I also don't mind talking about the actors, and I realize this is someone's opinion, but .... Then again, I'm personally willing to weed through those opinions (as long as they're respectful) to get to something worth talking about. I think that's the majority of the BBS anyway, no matter the forum or thread. We respond to things that pique our interest.

The point I was trying to make is that perhaps Jolene was putting her personal taste on the T'Pol character and our discussions were exploring that idea. You can't explore that idea without discussing the actor's personal lives and opinions. Naturally you have to get through a load of "weeds" before you get to the "fruit", but isn't that what these boards are about? An airing of respectful opinions? Not everyone has either the time, writing abilities (like my horrid style of writing), access to information or even the interest to document everything they post. Over time, those who post incorrect information get corrected by the facts. That's the point of a free society. Also, IMO, if the actors make statements, then they are fair game for discussion, criticism and speculation, as long as the tone remains civil.

I know you and I don't agree on much, but I think we can agree on this: If we don't respond to things that pique our interest, in a polite way of course, then what's the point of coming here?

 

[Aikiweezie]

I think that anything publicly said by an actor is fair game for discussion, but I think there's a line that shouldn't be crossed - if you're into that go to TMZ. (or better - don't) What the actors bring to the characters we're discussing is relevant, though.

 

[Penguin]

Middleman, I am going to get into trouble for this but:

Jolene saying that she has an over active libidio means that she is Horny a great deal of the time.

She Said it, not me.

 

[Middleman]

Middleman, I am going to get into trouble for this but:
Jolene saying that she has an over active libidio means that she is Horny a great deal of the time.
She Said it, not me.

It's a good thing I have some time on my hands today. Here are the actual words, you decide what she meant.

20Q: Jolene Blalock
By Bob Crane
Published February 01, 2005

Q6 Playboy: What would you like to change about yourself?
Blalock: I would enhance my personality and downsize my libido. I would be Mrs. Personality.

 

[commodore64]

I know you and I don't agree on much, but I think we can agree on this: If we don't respond to things that pique our interest, in a polite way of course, then what's the point of coming here?

I do agree. Hey, I'm game if HR allows it. Like I said, I can look away on stuff I don't want to respond to. I've been doing a fair job on it this entire thread and for the seven plus years I've been coming here.

 

[Penguin]

Middleman, I may be wrong. I suggest you look Up the word Libidio.

That way you will be sure of its meaning and not perhaps get a grabled translation.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

One more long-winded post, and then I'll get out of your way.

How can an actor play a role or a scene when they don't agree with it?

They act, I assume.

I read an interview with James Marsters while he was playing Spike on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. (No, I cannot cite a specific source at the moment, but if I had time, I might be able to Google it up. But there is a source; this is not rumor.) During Season 6, his character attempted to rape Buffy. Marsters said in the interview that he absolutely loathed doing the scene, because of his incredibly strong feelings against rape. The fact that he was friends with Sarah Michelle Gellar made the scene even more uncomfortable for him. But he is an accomplished actor, and he did his job. (Very well, IMHO.)

The conversation then went along the lines of "was she placing her personal values or in this case, her taste in men, on the character? This lead to a discussion of these values and tastes based on info available in her public bio and statements she has made.

An interesting discussion, for the most part. However, several of the posts I quoted above were non sequiturs that were not connected to the topic by the poster. That was my point.

I hope by this point people understand most of what we type here is opinion.

I'm talking about the adversarial effect of repeatedly posting opinion as fact--even emphasizing it as such. There are posters here who are convinced that their opinion is the only "right" one, and everyone else who disagrees with them is wrong. They often state their opinions loudly and/or repeatedly, i.e, "There was absolutely zero chemistry between Hoshi and Malcolm! None! From the first scene to the last!" This may illustrate a poster's strong opinion (which he/she is entitled to), but it also may inadvertently convey a lack of respect for anyone holding a different viewpoint (not so good). In a community filled with varied viewpoints, respect for everyone's opinions is preferable.

Look, when I read a few thousand versions of "A Night in Sickbay" is the worst episode evah!!1!1!!"--with about 99% of those opinions stated as incontrovertible fact--and I observe that any dissenting opinion of that episode routinedly gets boo'd and dissed and dog-piled on, to the point where minority opinion-holders hardly even make the effort to join the discussion... perhaps you can see why I am such a big proponent of stating opinion as opinion, and for dissenting views to be accepted rather than dismissed or attacked. It's not difficult to do, it shows respect for other perspectives, and it makes for a more inviting atmosphere for all posters, including those with the minority opinion.

Over time, those who post incorrect information get corrected by the facts. That's the point of a free society.

But how much damage is done by the time the rumors are put to rest--if they ever are? In a free society, there are laws against defamation.

There is no rule here against speculating about/insulting/belittling actors, as long as they are not members of the board. (It's just as well that most of the actors aren't members, considering what is said about them.) The rules do state that posters should not simply blurt out a critical opinion ("Bakula can't act worth beans!", "Jolene's only talent was her bosom!") without backing it up with examples--i.e., showing the opinion's relevance to the topic. Otherwise, it's just spam, or trolling.

A few months ago someone asked why Jolene looked so unhealthy in the opening episodes of Season 4. The speculation ranged from anorexia to drug abuse, until someone finally provided the correct answer, that several members of the cast came down with a horrible stomach virus during production, and Jolene was hit worse than anyone. But if you only breezed through the first few posts, you might be left thinking Jolene is a crackhead or psychologically unbalanced or uncaring about her health, or whatever.

I admit to feeling protective about actors. I live in L.A., and I know a lot of actors. Their careers live or die on their reputations as well as their craft, and most of them try like hell to guard their privacy and keep it separate from their work. There may not be a rule here to prevent a poster from saying that Ms. Blalock is a crackhead, or that she had "problems" with another cast member, or Mr. Trinneer must not like her because he hasn't seen her for a while. Setting aside that such talk is baseless and does the actor's reputation no good, is any of this contributing to the discussion in a meaningful way?

Middleman, I am going to get into trouble for this but:

Penguin, since you seem so interested in getting into trouble, allow me to use your post as another example.

Jolene saying that she has an over active libidio means that she is Horny a great deal of the time.

How do you know that's what she meant? What's the context? Was her statement in a skin magazine, or an interview with EW? Was she even discussing her work on Enterprise? I don't know, because you didn't say. We can add "nympho" to the rumor-mill now, huzzah. But what does all this have to do with Trip and T'Pol? Do you think speculation about Ms. Blalock's sex drive contributes substantively to the discussion? I have no idea, because you didn't go there.

[/example]

You gotta admit, you asked for it. Of course you don't mean to talk about Ms. Blalock in a way she might not appreciate, and you don't mean to derail the T/T discussion. But it's possible to misinterpret your intent. And the context that Middleman provided gives the "libido" statement quite a different spin.

I have no desire to box anyone in. My objective is to keep discussion flowing, and for folks to be respectful, so everyone will feel comfortable. Most everyone here is doing a fabulous job, and I heartily thank you for that. Compared to what has been going on in the Trek XI forum, you're all paragons of civility.

 

[commodore64]

^ Thank you for that -- the whole post. I'm glad to hear you're protective of actors. I think they're worth protecting. The Ent actors all seem like nice folks besides. Like I've said in other posts, it's rare I like all the characters in a program and I think it's largely attributed to the actors.

I'm also glad to hear a little rebuttle for Jolene. I don't understand some members of this board's reaction to her. I think she cared about her character a great deal and cared about the franchise. What more could anyone ask for? I certainly couldn't ask for more. And I think she gave her all to portray the best T'Pol she could and I think (in spite of what they sometimes gave her), she did a very nice job.

I'll say again, typically in a program, we'd hear a member of the cast speak up about how much they hated everyone by now. (Unfortunately, TOS is a great example.) I haven't heard that. I think they all genuinely got along okay and obviously are professionals.

I'm talking about the adversarial effect of repeatedly posting opinion as fact--even emphasizing it as such. There are posters here who are convinced that their opinion is the only "right" one, and everyone else who disagrees with them is wrong. They often state their opinions loudly and/or repeatedly, i.e, "There was absolutely zero chemistry between Hoshi and Malcolm! None! From the first scene to the last!" This may illustrate a poster's strong opinion (which he/she is entitled to), but it also may inadvertently convey a lack of respect for anyone holding a different viewpoint (not so good). In a community filled with varied viewpoints, respect for everyone's opinions is preferable.

Look, when I read a few thousand versions of "A Night in Sickbay" is the worst episode evah!!1!1!!"--with about 99% of those opinions stated as incontrovertible fact--and I observe that any dissenting opinion of that episode routinedly gets boo'd and dissed and dog-piled on, to the point where minority opinion-holders hardly even make the effort to join the discussion... perhaps you can see why I am such a big proponent of stating opinion as opinion, and for dissenting views to be accepted rather than dismissed or attacked. It's not difficult to do, it shows respect for other perspectives, and it makes for a more inviting atmosphere for all posters, including those with the minority opinion.

Well in that case, you got a lot of work ahead of you on this board and others. I do see your point and I think we're fans (fanatics) who have passion for our beliefs. I'll speak for myself, usually the only opinions I offer up are the ones I feel strongly about. And I'm sorry for you for it.

It's also nice to hear "[insert actor] acting sucks" or other opinion without examples is against the rules. I think there have been violations of all kinds, possibly for years. It'll also help me stay on the straight and narrow.

Glad to know we're paragons of virtue compared to someone.