Klingon technology development: how is this achieved?

[Cepstrum]

I have a Klingon question that I hope someone is willing/able to help me with. You may even wish to discuss/argue the issue.

Here it is in a nutshell:

• Klingons seem to be a warrior monoculture
• Klingons possess excellence technology
• So how do they do this if all/most of their people are either warriors or leaders?

And here's my question in expanded form:

The Klingons are often presented as fairly monoculture: tough, honorable warriors and all that. In fact, these qualities are so pervasive that they heavily dictated the — somewhat reckless —battle tactics during the Dominion War. On screen, we're shown no intellectual or even reflective Klingons, though Worf clearly demonstrates, through his technical prowess, that Klingon physiology probably does not render them with significantly less brain power (of course, Worf was raised by humans, which undoubtedly affected his intellectual development).

We are also shown that Klingon technology, namely their starships, are clearly up to par with that of their fellow Great Powers'; the Birds of Prey and Vor'cha (and Nev'ghar) classes always acquit themselves quite well.

So my question: how do you explain such a high level of continual tech development? Are we only shown the warrior types and in actuality there are Klingon science academies filled with smart Klingon engineers? I find it hard to believe any Klingon would (a) be willing to forfeit the chance to be a warrior and instead sit behind a desk designing technology or (b) that many Klingons would have the patience to do so.

But obviously they have to get their tech somehow, so how do they do it? Do you think they have many smart engineers as I described above, or do they steal tech (seems unlikely to me)? Perhaps they contract out their tech development to another species in exchange for protection and have done so for a long time (which would explain the continuity of their designs). That last seems most likely to me.

But please tell me what you think. Perhaps there is already a satisfactory answer to this. Thanks in advance.

 

[Mister_Atoz]

That's a valid point, but a lot of it comes down to the "dumbing down" of the Klingons that happened during the TNG era. In TOS, the Klingons were actually a lot more like the Cardassians in that they seemed to be as technologically advanced as the Federation, but used their technology in ways humans would think distasteful. The mind sifter is one such example, and the portable agonizer they use on Chekov as another.

But now that we have "space neanderthals" instead of intelligent adversaries, I think we can assume much of their technology comes from conquering other worlds. They may be a little like the Romans, who, contrary to popular belief weren't the greatest inventors. The Romans were better at adapting and improving an existing technology to suit their needs.

However, we also have the "Klingon Augments" story arc that gave us some insight on Klingon medical science. I think we can assume they follow a similar approach in their other sciences.

 

[indolover]

Klingon society is probably more complex than let on.

All Klingons seemingly follow the teachings of Kahless, and he is kind of like a Jesus-esque figure to them. But it seems that there is a strict warrior class that rules the Empire, and only persons from this warrior/noble class can serve on the high council, be top generals, or be Chancellor. Since warrior/noble class rule the society (of which Worf and his family were by birth a part of) the entire Klingon Empire follows the direction of it and exists to suit its own ends.

but it's not rigid, since Martok was born lower class and became essentially a noble and then Chancellor. They way I see it is that most Klingons are not actively warriors and just live normal lives, but if there is a war then most would join up to serve and die an honourable death.

All Klingons being warriors doesn't make sense anyhow. Somebody has to harvest the gagh worms, it's Klingons' staple food after all. Somebody has to paint, make scuptures, build the ships, write the operas Worf likes (as well as perform in them), etc.

With regard to technology, they may have a corp dedicated to new ship design, more efficent disruptors, etc. As Klingons are warriors most of their scientifc effort probably goes into weaponry and armaments.

 

[neozeks]

Well, they got their technology in the first place from the Hurq, the invaders they drove from their planet. We can assume that at that point in history Hurq technology was more advanced than the technology of other neighbouring species, allowing them to start spreading their empire. With time, other races continued advancing, while Klingons advanced much more slowly. So their development could be much slower than is the case with others. But in fact we do know not all Klingons are warriors. We have seen a Klingon scientist on TNG, a Klingon lawyer on DS9. The warriors are definitely held in much higher regard, they are the ruling class and make up the military (which is why we see them way most often). However, it could be said that even the other Klingons follow the warrior code in their own way. The Klingon lawyer certainly considered the court proceedings equivalent to combat.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I never understood Klingons either until I read the old novel Ishmael. It said (almost in passing, it's not the focus of the book) that an advanced race known as the Karsid Empire had long ago enslaved the tribal Klingons, thus arresting their cultural development at that stage. The Karsids used Klingons to (amongst other things) fly and staff their ships, until 600 years ago when the Karsids mysteriously disappeared leaving the Klingons with ships and weapons with which they forged an empire.

It explains why Klingons have used ships like the D7/K'Tinga cruiser and the Bird of Prey for over 200 years and why their ships are always so rusty and broken down. It's also held up in the novel as an example of why the Prime Directive is so important, and how much trouble tampering with undeveloped civilizations can cause.

The novel isn't canon, of course, and has probably been contradicted by stuff said in TNG and DS9, but the idea really klicked with me.

 

[GalaxyClass1701]

I never understood Klingons either until I read the old novel Ishmael. It said (almost in passing, it's not the focus of the book) that an advanced race known as the Karsid Empire had long ago enslaved the tribal Klingons, thus arresting their cultural development at that stage. The Karsids used Klingons to (amongst other things) fly and staff their ships, until 600 years ago when the Karsids mysteriously disappeared leaving the Klingons with ships and weapons with which they forged an empire.

It explains why Klingons have used ships like the D7/K'Tinga cruiser and the Bird of Prey for over 200 years and why their ships are always so rusty and broken down. It's also held up in the novel as an example of why the Prime Directive is so important, and how much trouble tampering with undeveloped civilizations can cause.

The novel isn't canon, of course, and has probably been contradicted by stuff said in TNG and DS9, but the idea really klicked with me.

Could they also be the Herc from DS9?

 

[The_Baroness]

We have seen a Klingon scientist on TNG, a Klingon lawyer on DS9. The warriors are definitely held in much higher regard, they are the ruling class and make up the military (which is why we see them way most often). However, it could be said that even the other Klingons follow the warrior code in their own way. The Klingon lawyer certainly considered the court proceedings equivalent to combat.

DS9 also has a resident Klingon Chef
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Unnamed_Deep_Space_9_residents#Klingon_chef

I imagine Klingon society much like the Hirogen, where we saw that there are other roles in their society other than Hunters, but these are looked down on in general.

 

[The Wormhole]

The Klingons had religious motivation for achieving spaceflight. Kahless pointed to a star in the sky and said he would return there when his people needed him. So obviously, this gave the Klingons all the necessary motivation to want to go into space, so that they may someday make it to Boreth for the return of Kahless.

However, I do not believe they developed warp drive on their own, rather they stole it from the Hur'q.

 

[Cepstrum]

Thanks, guys, for your helpful insight.

I could see how there must be many non-warrior Klingons; it's just that because the series are shown from the UFP's POV, we only see a particular type of Klingon. If the situation were reversed and we only saw limited encounters with StarFleet personnel, we might wonder how they could obtain such powerful weaponry, when there principal — stated — goal is scientific exploration.

And I forgot about the lawyer and scientist/archaeologist we saw on screen. Plus, *even if* they did contract out their tech development, we *know* there are some intellectuals, for as you pointed out, who else is writing all those operas?

Still, one thing still bothers me: even though it's plausible for them to devote some of their people to science, the way they're portrayed makes it seem as though that the number and quality of scientists would not be *that* high. So how can they keep up technology-wise with other Powers, such as the resource-rich UFP, which devotes a considerable investment to scientific advancement? The Klingons are roughly on par (well, probably a little behind) with SF, yet I don't see how this could be with SF's *continual* development of some of the best tech in the Alpha/Beta Quadrants. And SF can draw on a much larger population that includes many races that can contribute highly specialized tech (such as the Benzites). Otherwise wouldn't it be like if SF could only draw upon human/Earth talent instead of their vast coalition?

I'd think this would make all those relatively old Klingon ships wholly inadequate in any confrontation with SF, especially because SF knows the Klingons so well and should be able to easily design effective countermeasures to their old Birds of Prey, etc.

That makes me think the Klingons *must* be getting help somehow — perhaps they conquered a very smart species and has them assisting with native Klingon technology.

 

[RegFan]

We saw most of the Klingons we did see specifically because they were warriors. And there have been some appearances by non-warrior Klingons. Besides, how do we know that the Klingon culture was always as it was in the 23rd and 24th centuries?

 

[neozeks]

That makes me think the Klingons *must* be getting help somehow — perhaps they conquered a very smart species and has them assisting with native Klingon technology.

Quite possibly. It's rarely mentioned on screen but the Klingons must have dozens of species under their control. It stands to reason some of them are used as scientists and engineers.

Also, it's possible they received some of the tech through technology transfer. Cloaks from the Romulans (during some brief alliance) and who knows what else from the Federation since the start of the Federation-Klingon alliance.

 

[T'Girl]

• Klingons seem to be a warrior monoculture
• Klingons possess excellence technology

Spock stated in The Trouble with Tribbles that Klingons are very efficient farmers, which might result in the Organians might award them Sherman's Planet.

The (non-canon) novel The Final Reflection put forward that when Klingons conquer a new species/race they assimilate their technology. That how they started using dilithium crystals years before the Federation did in their engines, a fact for strategic reasons they concealed.

The Final Reflection also said that for the most part Klingons don't maintain or operate their own starships, most of the technical duties are performed by well educated non-Klingon slaves. Servators. The only Klingons on-board are officers and security.

the "dumbing down" of the Klingons that happened during the TNG era

I believe this had to do with Gene Roddenberry's "evolution of thought" that changed Star Trek. By the time we get to the mid 80's, Gene has embraced the "military is bad mentality," that why all of a sudden Starfleet isn't the Federation's military service. Which is ridiculous. The Klingons (really starting with TSFS) became caricatures of what some people think soldiers in general are, stupid cannon-fodder.

 

[Timo]

...an advanced race known as the Karsid Empire had long ago enslaved the tribal Klingons, thus arresting their cultural development at that stage. The Karsids used Klingons to (amongst other things) fly and staff their ships, until 600 years ago when the Karsids mysteriously disappeared leaving the Klingons with ships and weapons with which they forged an empire.

Could they also be the Hur'q from DS9?

I guess they could. We know from the novel when the Karsids ruled over the Klingons (right until the mid-1600s), but we don't know when the Hur'q left, so there's no contradiction there. We know from the novel the Karsids used subtle economic and technological means for luring primitive species into working for them, while the Hur'q were described as ruthless oppressors, but there's no contradiction there, either - it would boil down to different interpretations, one made by a Vulcan scholar, another spat out by the Klingons themselves. We know the Karsids used Klingons as their soldiers and ship crews, but the Hur'q might have done that as well. The Karsids were said to have disappeared, the Hur'q were said to have been overthrown, which might be two competing interpretations again. If the departure of the oppressor was a complicated process, akin to the Cardassian withdrawal from Bajor, Klingon history books could well omit this finesse; Klingon popular history might add the angle of a successful rebellion contrary to historical fact. Both styles of oppressor departure might leave advanced technology and industries in Klingon hands, even though this was only explicitly said to have happened in the Karsid case.

However, I doubt the Klingon Empire would survive long if it didn't possess at least the ability to build more of the Karsid/Hur'q ships, and hopefully also the ability to improve on the designs with time. Something shaped vaguely like the D-7 or the BoP might have been in the Hur'q arsenal already, but the ships we see should still be native Klingon designs for the most part. Otherwise, the emergence of all-new designs during the course of the 23rd and 24th centuries makes no sense.

Still, Klingon R&D might proceed much more slowly than human, if Klingon R&D mentality was based on that of lonely geniuses and close-knit guilds even in their space age. Also, it might not need to proceed faster if it started out with designs that were already good enough for controlling the Hur'q/Karsid empire!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

What others said here. Klingons merely make up the ruling elite of the Empire as well as its space service. Klingon warriors also tend to look down on "lower" class non-Warriors, despite the fact that they probably depend on them.

The most prominent examples for non-warrior Klingons:
- Kurak (scientist, TNG: "Suspicions")
- Ch'Pok (lawyer, DS9: "Rules of Engagement")
- Kolos (lawyer, ENT: "Judgment")
- Antaak (doctor, ENT: "Affliction"/"Divergence")

According to the aforementioned Kolos, Klingon society hasn't always been dominated by the warrior caste to the extent we witness it in the show. He mentioned to Archer that things happened to be a bit different during his youth (early 22nd century?). Jadzia Dax also mentioned in "You Are Cordially Invited" that the Empire even had been a democracy for a brief period centuries ago. So, for most of its history the Klingon Empire was ruled by the warriors. But there were also periods when they were somewhat less influential or even driven out of power entirely.

 

[137th Gebirg]

IIRC, the Klingons were supposed to be an analogy for the Soviets during the Cold War, up through the events in STVI:TUC. The Soviets kept up with the US for decades technologically, enough for the world to be scared to death of the cork popping and everyone getting melted down into slag. The catch is, their tech wasn't all that great. Their ICBM's were a prime example, compensating for the lack of accuracy in their delivery systems (like the US had) with bigger ordnance and larger, more powerful payloads. They fought against Germany's state-of-the-art Panzers in WWII with millions of soldiers carrying nothing more than Mosin-Nagant bolt-action rifles, PPSH's and the occasional AT squad weapon, along with their back-breaking winters, overwhelming them by raw numbers - always choosing quantity over quality to win, in every scenario, and generally succeeding in most cases, defying all odds and filling them with a false sense of confidence (see Afghanistan). We have situations like the Kursk, Chernobyl and other technological disasters that have happened over the years that are directly reflected in Klingon capabilities. They do just enough to keep up with the Joneses and when something goes horribly wrong, they understate the impact of the "incident", refuse any and all external assistance and aide, and muddle along as if nothing happened, with the military and government always getting the bulk of taxpayer dollars.

When thinking about what motivates a Klingon and the overall big-picture of the Klingon culture, one only has to analyze how Russia has survived this long. You will find your answer there.

I really wish they had done more with the Hur'q. Seems like it was a one-time throw-away line that was never explored again. Would have been interesting to see a "Return of the Hur'q" story thread in one of the series.

 

[Cepstrum]

IIRC, the Klingons were supposed to be an analogy for the Soviets during the Cold War, up through the events in STVI:TUC. The Soviets kept up with the US for decades technologically, enough for the world to be scared to death of the cork popping and everyone getting melted down into slag. The catch is, their tech wasn't all that great. Their ICBM's were a prime example, compensating for the lack of accuracy in their delivery systems (like the US had) with bigger ordnance and larger, more powerful payloads. They fought against Germany's state-of-the-art Panzers in WWII with millions of soldiers carrying nothing more than Mosin-Nagant bolt-action rifles, PPSH's and the occasional AT squad weapon, along with their back-breaking winters, overwhelming them by raw numbers - always choosing quantity over quality to win, in every scenario, and generally succeeding in most cases, defying all odds and filling them with a false sense of confidence (see Afghanistan). We have situations like the Kursk, Chernobyl and other technological disasters that have happened over the years that are directly reflected in Klingon capabilities. They do just enough to keep up with the Joneses and when something goes horribly wrong, they understate the impact of the "incident", refuse any and all external assistance and aide, and muddle along as if nothing happened, with the military and government always getting the bulk of taxpayer dollars.

When thinking about what motivates a Klingon and the overall big-picture of the Klingon culture, one only has to analyze how Russia has survived this long. You will find your answer there.

I really wish they had done more with the Hur'q. Seems like it was a one-time throw-away line that was never explored again. Would have been interesting to see a "Return of the Hur'q" story thread in one of the series.

I see your point about the Soviet-Klingon analogy. And, in fact, a lot of (at least early) high-tech Soviet weaponry was obtained by spying, stealing, and reverse-engineering. Of course, I think the Soviets were more tech savvy than Klingons, though I could see how Klingons could make achievements by examining alien tech, reverse-engineering it, and scrapping designs together in a rather ad-hoc fashion.

And though there are some similarities, I think the Klingons are fundamentally different from the Kazon, who got *all* their tech by first stealing from the Trabe and (apparently) subsequently by preying on ships flung from various parts of the galaxy to the Caretaker's array. I think the Kazon are probably a lot less intellectually advanced than the Klingons. I doubt there are, eg, Kazon lawyers, opera-writers, or (pure) scientists.

At first I was tempted to consider Klingon tech development as very similar to the methods employed by the Kazon, but now I think that is a poor notion. Besides, I don't think the Kazon have *any* honor.

 

[T'Girl]

So, for most of its history the Klingon Empire was ruled by the warriors. But there were also periods when they were somewhat less influential or even driven out of power entirely.

When the new Japanese Meiji Emperor was consolidating his power, one of the things he did was the get rid of the samurai warrior's caste.

He felt they no longer served a purpose.

What we saw in TOS might have been the Klingon Empires attempt to have a profession military force, instead of a bunch of shaggy warriors. They certainly looked more the part. Later the warriors returned or maybe simply seized power once again.

 

[The Wormhole]

I really wish they had done more with the Hur'q. Seems like it was a one-time throw-away line that was never explored again. Would have been interesting to see a "Return of the Hur'q" story thread in one of the series.

The Hur'q have been mentioned quite a bit in the novels, even featured in the DS9 novels written by JG Hertzler. Though surprisingly the only referances to them in the shows was in The Sword of Kahless and Enterprise's Afflicton.