Should Worf have become Emperor of the Klingon Empire via lineage? Could this also explain Generations?

[Timofnine]

We know that Worf’s family are part of a noble Klingon house, the house of Mogh. The House of Mogh was dishonoured due to the Duras family falsely accusing Mogh of collaborating with the Romulans during the Khitomer Massacre. This caused Mogh and his descendants to become dishonoured, socially excluded and expelled from the Empire until the events of Star Trek: The Next Generation two part episode Redemption I and II, where the deceit of the Duras family was proven and their generational plan was seemingly thwarted, the Duras families intention being to install their family as leaders of the Klingon High council, and thus ruling the Klingon Empire through their family lineage.

My question is in the thread title; would Worf have become the leader of the Klingon High Council through natural succession if it were not for the deception and deceit of the Duras family? On the plus side; at least Worf got to serve on the Enterprise and Deep Space Nine.

This begs another question; Star Trek: Generations randomly involved the inclusion of the Duras sisters as enemies, they were almost random inclusions in this movie, almost coming across as grunts for Soran. We do know that the Duras sisters coincidentally attempted to steal and profit from star destroying technology once before in the Deep Space Nine episode Past Prologue, prior to their acquisition of Trilithium in this movie. *BUT*, what if there was an untold story to Generations which would quite logically explain the Duras sisters seemingly random inclusion: the motivations of Lursar and B’Etor was quite simply to destroy the Enterprise, kill the legitimate heir to the Klingon Empire, Worf, and regain their ‘less direct’ lineage of birthright to rule the Klingon Empire in collaboration with the Romulans, coordinated by Sela and the Tal’Shiar? Of course, we do not know even know if the Klingons allow their lineages of succession to pass down female bloodlines, but the Duras sisters may have also been progressive feminists, fighting for their right to rule the Empire in much the same way as L’Rell did in Disco? Or perhaps this all proves the Star Trek: Discovery is not prime timeline after all… perhaps the Duras family were even involved in the Time War?

Also, in Picard, Worf is now randomly a ninja.

 

[Timofnine]

My embedded link in the above post connected to an associated past thread, but this link will not work when clicked or tapped on. I have tried to edit my original post several times, and I do not want to raise another IT help desk support ticket in Questions, Suggestions and Feedback with either @AntonyF or @EricF , so I will just post the direct hyper text mark up link below and hope that it works as a direct link?

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/out-of-all-the-enemies-which-could-have-potentially-returned-in-generations

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

would Worf have become the leader of the Klingon High Council through natural succession

That's not how it works with the High Council. Potential successors as Chancellor have to fight it out. There is no in-built right of succession.

There are exceptions of course. In DS9's "Tacking Into the Wind", when Worf and Gowron fight, Worf wins. That gives him the right to be Chancellor. But he willingly renounces it and hands it over to Martok.

 

[EricF]

My embedded link in the above post connected to an associated past thread, but this link will not work when clicked or tapped on. I have tried to edit my original post several times

If you look at the BBCode you ended up with you have:
[I][URL='http://Thread %27Out of all the enemies which could have potentially returned in Generations…%27']randomly involved the inclusion of the Duras sisters as enemies[/URL][/I]

You wanted
[I][URL='https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/out-of-all-the-enemies-which-could-have-potentially-returned-in-generations']randomly involved the inclusion of the Duras sisters as enemies[/URL][/I]

If you are however using the visual editor and you edit the post you can click on the link and you should get a little menu like this:


The middle icon of those is the Edit icon, clicking on that brings up the dialog box that lets you edit the link URL and text:


Which would have let you correct the URL.

 

[Timofnine]

That's not how it works with the High Council. Potential successors as Chancellor have to fight it out. There is no in-built right of succession.

There are exceptions of course. In DS9's "Tacking Into the Wind", when Worf and Gowron fight, Worf wins. That gives him the right to be Chancellor. But he willingly renounces it and hands it over to Martok.

I know this, but what is the ultimate definition of ‘fighting it out’? Is this battle always between between two individuals (who may have been the last of their bloodlines), or fights between entire Klingon Houses complete with multi generational cousins and grandchildren? Gowrons family could also have been part of the lineage of succession to the Klingon Empire, perhaps third in line after the Houses of Mogh (1) and Duras (2). Perhaps Worf should have succeeded to Gowron, but did not do so because he did not want to take on the responsibilities? Gowron would have LOVED Worf to have succeeded him, perhaps that was why he looked so happy when the person that he thought of as his protege (I’m guessing that he did not have any children?) killed him in honourable battle? Battles in a lineage can be one person against another, or a million against another million, all depends on birth rates and other social variables…

 

[Nerys Myk]

They got rid of the Emperor, didn't they? So there is no "line of succession."

 

[fireproof78]

My question is in the thread title; would Worf have become the leader of the Klingon High Council through natural succession if it were not for the deception and deceit of the Duras family?

No.

That clearly wasn't the implication by K'mpec at the time he asked for Picard's participation as arbiter.

 

[Timofnine]

No.

That clearly wasn't the implication by K'mpec at the time he asked for Picard's participation as arbiter.

But perhaps K’mpec was hiding the truth in order to help preserve the Klingon Empire of the time, with the House of Mogh being too weak and having no standing in the Klingon Empire. The plot could actually run even deeper…. It is entirely possible that some people did know of Worf ‘s bloodline and that he was actually under some form of Federation protection, perhaps under the guardianship of Section 31? Worf lived a normal life, graduating from the Academy and serving as a Starfleet Officer, this would have given him a unique perspective of Starfleet, the Federation, humanity and the other species which make up the Federation. After this time, Worf could then go and serve as an Ambassador to the Klingon Empire, as was suggested in Deep Space Nine and All Good Things. Eventually, when the lineage is revealed, and the time was right, Worf could take his rightful place as leader of the Klingon people, unifying the Empire and at the same time bringing true peace with the Federation. There would have to be a level of stability to the Empire which had not been seen in recent centuries, especially after the 23rd century events of Khitomer, Praxis and the 24th century civil war. By the time of the 25th century, the Empire could be stable once more, just in time for Star Trek: Legacy. Of course, the destruction of Romulus would have to be undone in order to bring stability back to the Alpha and Beta quadrants.

**EDIT**
The links working now, btw:

Out of all the enemies which could have potentially returned in Generations…

I mean, I can kind of understand why they chose to bring back Khan after Space Seed. But Lursa and B’Etor? Did TNG not produce any truly ‘Khan level’ villains in the shows entire seven season run? If you could have brought back any TNG enemy or other wise antagonistic/villain character for...

www.trekbbs.com

PS.

Worf *was* Emperor/Regent in the mirror universe, ruling the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, but he had not experienced humanity in this multiverse which could explain how he became a tyrant in that universe. Emperor Georgiou may be very well aware of Worfs heritage in her timeline of origin, therefore this may be her true incentive to join Section 31 - to undo the mistakes of the mirror universe (caused by mirror Spock after prime timeline intervention) and help build a better future for the prime timeline? We do know that Georgiou is in the 23th century at present during the time of Khitomer, even mixing with Captain Garret. I guess that we will find out in the new TV movie in a few days?

They could call the next Star Trek film: Star Trek: The Search for Worf?

 

[Shawnster]

But perhaps K’mpec was hiding the truth...

That wasn't the point. As stated above, bloodline and birthright are somewhat irrelevant in determining the next chancellor. If bloodline was what mattered, there would be no need for an arbiter of succession.

I do like the idea of warring houses vying for the throne. In such an instance, Worf would have needed to have been head of his house, or someone fighting to make Worf head of his house so he could then lead the charge.

But that's not the story we got. Instead, Worf kept getting discommodated and relegated to a non Klingon. The House of Mogh was pretty much dissolved.

 

[Oddish]

There are exceptions of course. In DS9's "Tacking Into the Wind", when Worf and Gowron fight, Worf wins. That gives him the right to be Chancellor. But he willingly renounces it and hands it over to Martok.

One of my least favorite moments of Trek. It felt like Worf had made a huge sloppy mess, then dropped it in Martok's lap because he didn't want to handle it.

 

[Lynx]

Honestly, I don't know.

Personally I think that Worf is better as a Starfleet or Klingon Captain than an Emperor or even an Admiral.

He was at his best as Security Officer on the Enterprise and Deep Space Nine.

I can imagine him as Commander for a Klingon Bird Of Prey under command of Admiral Martok.

But there's only one who is worthy to be the Klingon Chancellor!


Gowron!

 

[Oddish]

But there's only one who is worthy to be the Klingon Chancellor!


Gowron!

As long as it's not the miserable version of him we got in "Tacking into the Wind" and the preceding episodes. That was an insult to the character.

 

[Turtletrekker]

One of my least favorite moments of Trek. It felt like Worf had made a huge sloppy mess, then dropped it in Martok's lap because he didn't want to handle it.

You see, and I felt that that moment was quintessential Worf. Honor and duty above all. Worf would not have made a good chancellor, and he knew it. Martok was the best choice for the Empire at that time. Everyone knew it except Martok.

And say what you will about Picard season 3, I certainly have. I actually greatly enjoyed it for what it was, but I also accepted it for what it was right from the start and just enjoyed the ride. However, I don't have any problems whatsoever with the trajectory that they put Worf's arc on. The Worf that refused to take the throne is the same Worf that declined join Korrus in "Heart of Glory" and refused to kill Toral in "Redemption II", and it's the same Worf that will go on to the quasi pacifistic Worf that we saw in Picard. It's been baked into his character arc from the start. And he was not strictly speaking a pacifist in Picard season 3. He was more like the Tenth Doctor in that he will give you a chance, but only one. Then you've made your choice.

 

[Lynx]

As long as it's not the miserable version of him we got in "Tacking into the Wind" and the preceding episodes. That was an insult to the character.

No, that "Gowron" was an impostor, a Cardassian agent with altered face in the same way as Raymond Boone in the DS9 episode Tribunal.

An agent who worked for the Dominion in order to create a conflict between the Klingons and the Federation and to split the Federation-Klingon-Romulan alliance.

It was that impostor who was killed by Worf.

The real Gowron was in a Cardassian prison and escaped when Damar's revolution started. When the war ended, he returned to Qo'onoS and was re-instated as Chancellor.

To be honest, DS9 was a great series with great storytelling but even the wrtersof that series made some mistakes and the greatest mistake was to destroy Gowron, the best Klingon ever, a favorite among the viewers. A character which could have been useful in future movies and series and they destroy him. How stupid!

I mean, who other among the Klingons and even among other Star Trek characters have had so many memes made about him on the Internet.
No one!

Not to mention that he was a very interesting character who deserved something better then he got.

I would definitely like to see Gowron back!