John Adams on HBO

[Malcom]

My father once related to me that the first time he saw a photo of FDR and King together "I thought one of them looked urbane and sophisticated, and I thought that guy just has to be the president, and the other one I thought looked like a complete hayseed, so I thought he must be the PM"; turns out he had them reversed. Though I don't see that at all, because nobody looks less like a hayseed than FDR.

FDR could, at times, look wrinkled and grubby. The Roosevelts always had that look of rich people slumming.

http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/photos.html

Here's the last one of Franklin or Eleanor - stag or drag - where neither looks grey, wrinkled and exhausted:

http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/images/photodb/09-1768a.gif

Eleanor's Other Guy:

http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu:8000/photo.cgi?type=title&db=3&text=miller&x=53&y=16

Here's the Wizard of Oz three:

http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/images/photodb/09-1875a.gif

My great uncle was director of materiel for the RCN. Mac King must have done something right! Folks don't understand that a job like being PM of Canada - like being US prez - just has unique pressures that you just have to learn to deal with. King, like FDR, was PM for one hell of a time.

Capt. Canada, when I was in the Banff Springs Hotel, I was in the gift shop and they had some terrific photographs of King, etc. and I marveled at what great photographs they were and he said it was sad how few people recognized him in photographs. So, yes, I'd like to know more about him! I touched the box that Pearson's Nobel Peace Prize came in and I almost knocked Trudeau over trying to escape a boring lecture early and leaving the back door....now, there's an interesting couple - Pierre and Margaret.

 

[Takomaguy]

My father once related to me that the first time he saw a photo of FDR and King together "I thought one of them looked urbane and sophisticated, and I thought that guy just has to be the president, and the other one I thought looked like a complete hayseed, so I thought he must be the PM"; turns out he had them reversed. Though I don't see that at all, because nobody looks less like a hayseed than FDR.

FDR could, at times, look wrinkled and grubby. The Roosevelts always had that look of rich people slumming.

http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/photos.html

Here's the last one of Franklin or Eleanor - stag or drag - where neither looks grey, wrinkled and exhausted:

http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/images/photodb/09-1768a.gif

Eleanor's Other Guy:

http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu:8000/photo.cgi?type=title&db=3&text=miller&x=53&y=16

Here's the Wizard of Oz three:

http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/images/photodb/09-1875a.gif

My great uncle was director of materiel for the RCN. Mac King must have done something right! Folks don't understand that a job like being PM of Canada - like being US prez - just has unique pressures that you just have to learn to deal with. King, like FDR, was PM for one hell of a time.

Capt. Canada, when I was in the Banff Springs Hotel, I was in the gift shop and they had some terrific photographs of King, etc. and I marveled at what great photographs they were and he said it was sad how few people recognized him in photographs. So, yes, I'd like to know more about him! I touched the box that Pearson's Nobel Peace Prize came in and I almost knocked Trudeau over trying to escape a boring lecture early and leaving the back door....now, there's an interesting couple - Pierre and Margaret.

Whether Roosevelt looked like he was slumming or not, thank God we had him. So should the world.

BTW, Malcolm, I think we are neighbors, somewhat. I live in Takoma Park and I've had pie at the Bethesda Diner.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Mac King must have done something right! Folks don't understand that a job like being PM of Canada - like being US prez - just has unique pressures that you just have to learn to deal with. King, like FDR, was PM for one hell of a time.

I've read a lot about King over the years (among other things, the entrance essay I wrote for King's College was about him), and he demonstrated amazing resiliency through many different eras, with a lot of different influences. He was PM for most of the Roaring 20s, got turfed because of the Depression, then road it back into office five years later, implemented a semi-New Dealish policy (he never really understood the situation the way Roosevelt did, although he wasn't handicapped by Bennett's belief that poverty was good for people, and the Canadian government system of the time wasn't really suited for the extensive intervention seen in the US), the war, and the postwar (including firing the opening shot of the Cold War, the Gouzenko Affair). Particularly significant, I think, is that he survived the war, with his political coalition in tact, and so he managed to define the postwar consensus and welfare state on the domestic front much better than American liberals did after FDR's death and the earlier 1938 collapse of the New Deal Coalition.

now, there's an interesting couple - Pierre and Margaret.

On the subject of entertainment, they actually got a damn good miniseries a few years ago; I really should get around to buying that on DVD (although I still can't believe they missed the 'walk in the snow' for the end).

 

[Malcom]

FDR was a completely self-centered selfish bastard, but those are, ultimately, the traits that made him a great president. He assessed every issue on its merits.

I live within walking distance of Tastee. You know you're a regular when the server will spot you a twenty to pay your tab when you've forgotten your wallet. I've always been surprised there aren't more places to eat around Takoma Park.

 

[Malcom]

Mac King must have done something right! Folks don't understand that a job like being PM of Canada - like being US prez - just has unique pressures that you just have to learn to deal with. King, like FDR, was PM for one hell of a time.

I've read a lot about King over the years (among other things, the entrance essay I wrote for King's College was about him), and he demonstrated amazing resiliency through many different eras, with a lot of different influences.

Please to recommend a good biography of King. I am familiar with his general policies and would like to know more.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Heh. There's not really a huge amount of dedicated biography on most Canadian political figures, not to the extent you see in American politics (I remember once a man talking about levels of historical awareness in Canada said that there hadn't been a major biography of Sir John A. Macdonald in several decades). There are a couple of books by Blair Neatby written in the 1970s which cover his career in good detail; C. P. Stacey's A Very Double Life is probably the most well-known book about him, focussing on his eccentric private life, but it really just focusses on eccentricity over his accomplishments, and on its own would probably just give you the impression he was a total nut. Someone like Ovation would probably know more about what's been written about him.

My favourite book that deals with King isn't directly about him, its Pierre Berton's Marching as to War, about Canada's "turbulent years" between 1899 and 1953; King was a central figure in most of those years, and it gives you a good sense of how his style of politics suited the times, for the most part.

 

[Takomaguy]

Heh. There's not really a huge amount of dedicated biography on most Canadian political figures, not to the extent you see in American politics (I remember once a man talking about levels of historical awareness in Canada said that there hadn't been a major biography of Sir John A. Macdonald in several decades). There are a couple of books by Blair Neatby written in the 1970s which cover his career in good detail; C. P. Stacey's A Very Double Life is probably the most well-known book about him, focussing on his eccentric private life, but it really just focusses on eccentricity over his accomplishments, and on its own would probably just give you the impression he was a total nut. Someone like Ovation would probably know more about what's been written about him.

My favourite book that deals with King isn't directly about him, its Pierre Berton's Marching as to War, about Canada's "turbulent years" between 1899 and 1953; King was a central figure in most of those years, and it gives you a good sense of how his style of politics suited the times, for the most part.

No doubt Canadian history, is, ummm, truly fascinating, why are you posting your gems on a thread about a TV show dedicated to John Adams. From what I've seen of the show, they don't even mention Canada.

 

[Takomaguy]

FDR was a completely self-centered selfish bastard, but those are, ultimately, the traits that made him a great president. He assessed every issue on its merits.

I live within walking distance of Tastee. You know you're a regular when the server will spot you a twenty to pay your tab when you've forgotten your wallet. I've always been surprised there aren't more places to eat around Takoma Park.

Hmmmmm...selfish is as selfish does. Seems like America and the world was left in much better shape as a result of having him in the White House. Look at the results of a Roosevelt presidency. I daresay there are those that would shudder were you to try and compare it to a, oh, I don't know, a George W. Bush presidency?

 

[Malcom]

FDR was a completely self-centered selfish bastard, but those are, ultimately, the traits that made him a great president. He assessed every issue on its merits.

Hmmmmm...selfish is as selfish does. Seems like America and the world was left in much better shape as a result of having him in the White House. Look at the results of a Roosevelt presidency. I daresay there are those that would shudder were you to try and compare it to a, oh, I don't know, a George W. Bush presidency?

I completely agree. But the idea that presidents should act like or pretend to be 'regular folks' you'd like to have a beer with is absurd.

 

[AJBryant]

Guys, can you keep your petulant personal politics away from things, please?

 

[Malcom]

Guys, can you keep your petulant personal politics away from things, please?

I apologize. I'll edit if I can.

One amazing leader I don't know enough about is Bismarck. I'd like to see something on him.

 

[Takomaguy]

Guys, can you keep your petulant personal politics away from things, please?

"LEAVE HER ALONE!!!!"

 

[DarthPipes]

I thought it was very good tonight. Not as good as last week and not nearly the drama of Independence but still good nonetheless. Fine performances turned in by Giamatti and Linney with Dillane once again as the scene-stealer. A highlight was the scene in which Adams fires his Secretary of State and Secretary of War. A few moments of humor in here too, such as Adams noting they would call Washington toothless. I liked the way they inserted lines from the various letters of John and Abigail into the script. Adams prayer in the White House dining room is still inscribed in the house to this day.

I'm surprised they skipped over the founding of the Navy, not to mention having skipped over the Treaty of Paris with Britian from earlier in the show. Thought David Morse would appear again but he remained an off-camera presence.

I'm going to miss this show when it finishes next week. They've done an amazing job with this mini-series.

Spoiler for next week's show...everyone dies!

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

America's first one term president. What a loser. I mean, really, that's what I'm getting out of this. Want to be succesful in politics, do whatever Adams wouldn't do!

Okay, perhaps, even jokingly, that's unfair. He did avoid unnecessary war and he pissed off Hamilton.

Flawed but interesting guy, this Mister Adams.

 

[DarthPipes]

If you want to be successful in politics, then you SHOULD do the opposite of everything Adams did. You might lose your soul but your face carved into stone.

 

[Jack Bauer]

What I got out of tonight's episode was that Alexander Hamilton seemed like a total prick. No wonder he got shot.

 

[TGTheodore]

What I got out of tonight's episode was that Alexander Hamilton seemed like a total prick. No wonder he got shot.

"Aawunnnnn Buhhhhh"

--Ted

 

[DarthPipes]

Heheh. Someone on another board said that this is how Adams should have said it in the last episode.

Hamilton was a prick. He was a great Treasury secretary and had a brilliant mind but he was crazy too. He wanted to form a super empire with the British. He was enemies with Adams, Jefferson, and Burr. Eventually, one of his enemies shot him.

 

[Michael Chris]

Not to mention Madison and a whole bunch of others.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Not to mention Madison and a whole bunch of others.

No, no...Burr just shot Hamilton...the others may have watched.