Is The Cage canon?

[Vance]

^In what manner did ENT declare itself free? Simply by virtue of its continuity-defying antics (matter/antimatter propulsion, Xindi attack on Earth that no one bothers mentioning ever in the future, first contact with the Ferengi, first contact with the Borg, random Denobulan, jerk Vulcans, Kronos less than a light year from Earth)?

Because the producers of the show said so. 'Canon' is not a function of the story, it's the other way around. If the producers say "this isnt' part of the old canon", and both Berman and Braga did that, then that, quite simply, is that.

That's why bitching about ENT's continuity issues with the other series was always a bit silly, because on day one, we were told 'this is a new timeline, and you can blame First Contact on it if you want'.

 

[miraclefan]

It's THE first ever STAR TREK episode, so ya I would say the CAGE is indeed canon! Plus for being over 40 years old it's story holds up supriseingly WELL!

 

[Myasishchev]

Because the producers of the show said so. 'Canon' is not a function of the story, it's the other way around. If the producers say "this isnt' part of the old canon", and both Berman and Braga did that, then that, quite simply, is that.

That's why bitching about ENT's continuity issues with the other series was always a bit silly, because on day one, we were told 'this is a new timeline, and you can blame First Contact on it if you want'.

I didn't know that, and it's pleasant news.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Because the producers of the show said so. 'Canon' is not a function of the story, it's the other way around. If the producers say "this isnt' part of the old canon", and both Berman and Braga did that, then that, quite simply, is that.

That's why bitching about ENT's continuity issues with the other series was always a bit silly, because on day one, we were told 'this is a new timeline, and you can blame First Contact on it if you want'.

I didn't know that, and it's pleasant news.

Must have missed those statements.

 

[Vance]

Must have missed those statements.

In God's name HOW?

There was a huge firestorm back when they said it, and that was the reason they gave for not calling the show "Star Trek" when it was first on. How can anyone who has been here any length of time possibly have missed that?!

 

[Myasishchev]

That is how I missed it. After DS9 ended--when I was 13 and, fortunately for everyone's sake, did not post on the Internet--I stopped caring. When ENT arrived, I couldn't watch it and my grief over not having it beamed to my TV was rapidly assuaged by the reviews. However, rewatching DS9 on DVD brought me back into the fold so to speak, and I became more interested in Star Trek as a whole. Little to my surprise, I found ENT bad but trending toward decent near the end, and I disliked VOY as much as I did back when. On the plus side, I watched TOS for the first time in years, and it's still delightful.

 

[bryce]

"The Cage" is in fact the *only* Trek that is cannon - the entire rest of the series, movies and spin-offs were just an illusion faked by the Talosians!

 

[Nerys Myk]

Must have missed those statements.

In God's name HOW?

There was a huge firestorm back when they said it, and that was the reason they gave for not calling the show "Star Trek" when it was first on. How can anyone who has been here any length of time possibly have missed that?!

Oh I remember all sorts of firestorms based on what fan think producers, writers and PR hacks saying. Mostly wishfull thinking to avoid things the fan find uncomfortable.

 

[Vance]

No, there was an actual documented statement that said that. I don't remember which of the pair had the definitive statement, honestly, but that was the original purpose.

Of course, I've long maintained that continuity was the least of ENT's overall weaknesses. The fact that it took all the bad aspects of all the previous shows, and precious little of the good, trumped everything else.

 

[miraclefan]

"The Cage" is in fact the *only* Trek that is cannon - the entire rest of the series, movies and spin-offs were just an illusion faked by the Talosians!

GREAT! so now your telling me I have spent HUNDREDS of hours AND dollar's watching nothing more then an illuusion created by SCROTAL HEADED ALIEN'S!?!?!?!...Now it all make's sense!

 

[Nerys Myk]

No, there was an actual documented statement that said that. I don't remember which of the pair had the definitive statement, honestly, but that was the original purpose.

Of course, I've long maintained that continuity was the least of ENT's overall weaknesses. The fact that it took all the bad aspects of all the previous shows, and precious little of the good, trumped everything else.

I think you're conflating a couple of different statements about various things regarding Enterprise.

Continuity (internal and external) was pretty strong in Enterprise. Possibly the best of any of the shows. Which might not be saying much.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

This has probably already been said but the scenes that are in "The Menagerie" are canon while the scenes that are not are in the category of "cutting room floor deleted scenes."

 

[Vance]

I think you're conflating a couple of different statements about various things regarding Enterprise.

Not really, people forget what 'canon' means. ENT had its own canon, created by the safe of its show, naturally. It was not, however, the canon used from TNG through the end of VOY. And that, in turn, wasn't the one used in TOS. And TOS, as we know, overhauled theirs three times within the first few produced episodes.

Whether or not things follow a continuity, however, is a completely different question, but it's not a statement of 'canon'. Fans obsess over that term a hell of a lot more than the producers and writers do.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I think you're conflating a couple of different statements about various things regarding Enterprise.

Not really, people forget what 'canon' means. ENT had its own canon, created by the safe of its show, naturally. It was not, however, the canon used from TNG through the end of VOY. And that, in turn, wasn't the one used in TOS. And TOS, as we know, overhauled theirs three times within the first few produced episodes.

Whether or not things follow a continuity, however, is a completely different question, but it's not a statement of 'canon'. Fans obsess over that term a hell of a lot more than the producers and writers do.

I know what canon means. Its just the collected works (of what varies) that are offically recognized by those empowered to do so.(In this case Roddenberry, Bennett, Berman, Abrams, Paramount, CBS...) Enterprise is part of the Star Trek canon as determined by those in charge at the time of its creation. All the live action TV shows and movies were part of that canon.

Continuity is about keeping things constistant from episode to episode, series to series and movie to movie or combination of the three. New information or unknown information isn't always a violation of continuity. That can only happen if there is pre-existing information that it conflicts with. The "wiggle room" for this can be microscopic or the size of the universe.

Well, you know, if you think about it, since The Next Generation, we've had so many Star Trek entities that were called "Star Trek"-colon-something [...] Our feeling was, in trying to make this show dramatically different, which we are trying to do, that it might be fun not to have a divided main title like that. And I think that if there's any one word that says Star Trek without actually saying Star Trek, it's the word "Enterprise"

Nothing about canon there.

 

[Vance]

That wasn't the statement. I was specifically about tying to the original series. But, it's been *muttering about old age* some years now. Not a huge deal for me, personally.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That wasn't the statement. I was specifically about tying to the original series. But, it's been *muttering about old age* some years now. Not a huge deal for me, personally.

Then why bring it up?

 

[Vance]

Then why bring it up?

Thread... title... 'canon'... 'cage'...
Norman! Coordinate! NORMAN!

Screw you, Norman! I'm phaser-zapping these illogical bastards!

 

[Nerys Myk]

Then why bring it up?

Thread... title... 'canon'... 'cage'...
Norman! Coordinate! NORMAN!

Screw you, Norman! I'm phaser-zapping these illogical bastards!

Berman and Enterprise have what to do with the Cage? Seems to be slightly OT.

 

[Vance]

They have nothing ot do with the Cage, but they did get to define what canon was. Hence, it answered the question. Why are you being so difficult?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Did they? Quotes?

ETA About Enterprise having its own canon. Or is outside of other Trekcanon