I have to admit, I misread your post. Thanks to another thread in the General Trek forum, instead of Michelle Green, I thought you said Michelle Forbes reviewed the episodes. I thought to myself, "Whoa, that's cool of her."
In a Mirror Darkly
- Thread starter PhoenixIreland
- Start date
I have to admit, I misread your post. Thanks to another thread in the General Trek forum, instead of Michelle Green, I thought you said Michelle Forbes reviewed the episodes. I thought to myself, "Whoa, that's cool of her."
The only way to make the episode possible budget wise was to do 2 episodes. It was quit expensive to build the Defiant sets. By making 2 episode they didn't break the budget since they could spread out the costs. Either it was 2 or none.
BtW wasn't he cancellation announced when they began filming on part 2? Too bad ENT was cancelled and we didn't get another MU episode the following year.
BtW wasn't he cancellation announced when they began filming on part 2? Too bad ENT was cancelled and we didn't get another MU episode the following year.
Matt---I was excited by the ideas of season 4 just not the execution though this was the best of the lot. I think they gleaned buzz words from boards thinking they didn't have to understand what made various TOS eps buzz.I think Sussman and the Reeves-Stevens' understood but weren't allowed the creative freedom to give us eps that would please old and new Trek fans.
This was a great episode. Thought I think it went too fast. I wish we could have seen more.
Though again, this episode too away two episodes we could have seen in our universe, espisally since this was the final season.
Though again, this episode too away two episodes we could have seen in our universe, espisally since this was the final season.
Actually, I'd say that's a bit of an opposite. Any TV show, Star Trek or otherwise, has to have mandatory sets that can be used in each and every episode; same bridge, same sickbay, same police station, same courthouse, same emergency room, same living room, etc. etc. Those sets have to be built to be sturdy and yet still be inviting for each episode. Therefore, a huge chunk of the starting budget goes towards creating the sets. This is why, on Star Trek, the bridges of alien ships and buildings of other worlds and costumes look so cheap. A Romulan bridge doesn't have a quarter of the articulation and detail of Voyager's bridge. The DS9 sets are among the most expensive in television history, yet the Cardassian capital looks bare bones.
Essentially, what Enterprise would have to do to make this episode is to take much of the TOS budget, adjust it for inflation (since that was 40 years ago), and rebuild sets that were originally designed to last for five years but cram that into two episodes instead. Couple that in with some very expensive CGI scenes and battles, and it's an expensive endeavour. For that matter, the viewscope emerging from the console used in part II was fanmade and borrowed... it was simply cheaper to do so than to rebuild it again.
There's precedent for this, too: the Enterprise-D should've looked more militaristic and battle-ready in Yesterday's Enterprise, given that the ship was built after the start of war. But making a suitable combat model out of a Galaxy that's half-science vessel is wayyy too expensive for one episode.
Agreed. Personally, I think that if the MU can't do any stories without a crossover with the normal universe, then something's wrong with it. The setting itself should be enough for the audience to enjoy the differences between the two, rather than making the ep a morality play. "Mirror, Mirror" did that very well, while the DS9 eps didn't do as good.
I didn't mind that they used 2 episodes. If anything I wish they had used more. There are quite a few ENT episodes (including some in the 4th season) that I would gladly trade for more mirror episodes like IaMD. They planned to do one mirror episode each season if ENT had been renewed. It's shame they didn't get a chance.
Quit with the mocking of the DS9 mirror!
Apart from the psudo-lesbian kira I liked it
Apart from the psudo-lesbian kira I liked it
I didn't mock it, I just said I didn't like it
The thing the DS9 Mirror episodes got wrong was that the human crew were heroes. They were more flawed than their 'real' counterparts, but they still had an inner goodness to them and could be selfless when pushed. The TOS and Enterprise mirror episodes, however, had bloodlusted bastards from the start and no one relented. Alien species could be heroes (Spock, T'Pol, Phlox, etc), but the entire point is about seeing how dangerous and powerful the Federation would be if humanity's ambitions were warped.
I"ll give the DS9 some props, though: In a Mirror Darkly foretold the fall of the Terran Empire that became the basis of the DS9 Mirror episodes. A very nice touch of continuity there.
We don't know that for certain. All we know is that Kirk, Scotty, Uhura and McCoy found the mirror universe a surprise. Like the Borg episode, I'm sure they could've written around it -- like their memories were wiped, they believed it to be a dream, etc. Really the point is to watch our guys experience the mirror universe -- a topsy-turvy world for them and make sense of it. That's why Mirror/Mirror worked. It was fun seeing Evil Spock and Evil Sulu. I enjoyed how Pavel tried to off Captain Kirk to move up the chain of command, the agonizer, etc. It was amusing to see how our characters reacted and possibly changed that world.
I loved the two parter IAMD, but agree with Angie in that it would've been even more fun with our characters.
I loved the second episode. I thought it wrapped it up nicely and enjoyed the way Archer died. (Didn't see that coming!) I'm with Angie. Coto understood the gimmicks of TOS (lame references), but imo not the essence of TOS -- what made it special and unique. I think Sussman got it. I definitely think Reeves-Stevens got it. I think the trick with ENT was always making it "different" while taking the best parts of TOS, not just references, to develop a compelling television show.
I always vote for no/less gimmicks, but IAMD was fun.
Cyrus, your comment about trading other 4th season episodes for more IAMD - AMEN! Storm Front I, II, Home, Bound, Demons, Daedalus ... and these are just off the top of my head.
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I agree with all of those except Bound. I can't help it, I wont trade away anything with Orion slave girls in it.
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Even as a woman, I was looking forward to our heroes coming under the spell of the Orion women. I guess also as a woman what ticked me off was that instead of letting T'Pol and Hoshi save they day -- they sat helplessly at their consoles until Trip came in. If Hoshi, according to Observer Effect, had a blackbelt in karate and T'Pol - as a Vulcan - can kick ass ... why not let them?
In the end it felt like build up for not much reward.
I will say it was fun to see Orions dance. I kind of expected them to be less synchronized and a bit more wild - a la TOS.
In the end it felt like build up for not much reward.
I will say it was fun to see Orions dance. I kind of expected them to be less synchronized and a bit more wild - a la TOS.
As a women you are not under the spell of the Orion slave girls so you notice script flaws like this.
Yeah, it would have been better if T'Pol & Hoshi had saved the day. Maybe they are lesbians and that's why they couldn't do it. Come to think of, Trip could be gay (not that there is anything wrong with that). Even a bound with T'Pol shouldn't be strong enough to be completely resistant to the slave girls.
Still a damn cool episode
Well, I think it missed something not having "our Enterprise" crew members there, but I totally agree with the Bakula scowling. I could also do without his chronic scenery chewing throughout the ep. When he gave that little speech to the crew about "....with this SHIP!' .....and....he....pauses....more....than..the...Shat...and...Brooks....combined.....I cracked up!
That was probably it.
I understand. Desert Crossing was a bit of eye candy. Possibly boring, but still fun to watch.
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