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If "Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home" had been the last classic-era film

Admiral Archer

Captain
Captain
1986: Star Trek seemed to be on a roll. A new movie had just come out, and a new TV show was on it's way. As we all know, the original cast would return to do two more films, one critically panned, the other seen as a landmark ending to the adventures of the classic Enterprise crew. But what if those other two films hadn't happened at all?

Say "Star Trek: The Next Generation" began production on season 2, and William Shatner approached Paramount to direct his own new Trek film, but the studio decided, "Y'know, Bill, that's nice and all, but they said it best in the third movie: Your day is over." And with that, the classic crew were never to be seen again after warping off to the final frontier in the brand-new Enterprise-A.

Would it have been a good ending? A fitting conclusion to the voyages of the Enterprise crew? In my opinion, yes, actually. Neither of the films that followed captured the same essence of what made the early four Star Trek motion pictures so, for lack of a better word, magical. You had the family reunion in TMP, then the Genesis Trilogy of films. Did we even need another two films? Let's see what you've got to say! :)
 
I suppose TVH could have worked as a sign-off, but I'm glad we got TUC as well. One of my all-time favorite Trek movies. And a great last hurrah for the original crew.

Yeah and such a rare thing as well, that final adventure that raps everything up so nicely for beloved characters, doesn't happen often...
 
I like The Undiscovered Country also, its where I learned my Shakespeare.
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I think in many ways it does work as a final film. Was there a chance that might have happened? I am not so sure. TNG didn’t premier until 87 so it probably wouldn’t have been able to carry a film for several years down the road. Maybe if TVH seriously bombed st the box office (like worse than TFF or nemesis). But even then, I think that Paramount would have wanted to try at least one more with the old crew - it just might have happened later than 89, a lower budget and possibly with some key characters missing or replaced with other characters (perhaps having Robin Curtis return as Saavik, Grace Lee Whitney as Rand).

Now, putting the financial reality aside, the series really does feel like it came to a natural end at TVH. Like TMP, Kirk and company fly off to have more adventures at the end. TWOK lay the groundwork for some kind of ongoing series (either a return to tv or a series of telefilms) with a new generation of characters gradually replacing the legacy characters (much as Phase II would have done with Decker and Xon for Shatner and Nimoy).

TVH is the culmination of a reversal of this groundwork, by the end, all new characters ere were written out and legacy characters were restored to their “pre-twok” status. Having eschewed these plans to bring longevity to the franchise, TSFS and to a lesser extent TVH relied on the situations and conflicts of the preceding film to drive their plot. By the end of TVH, they pretty much used up all their material.
But I just don’t think they would have given up on the property completely after TVH. Instead of a gradual evolution to new charaters or phase II or TWOK, TNG was too much a hard restart with new characters that was still finding it’s “space legs”
 
I love TUC (dislike TFF) so I'm glad we got the ending we did, even if Generations went and undid a lot of it, that being said the ending of TVH leaves things on a high in a generally light hearted feel good movie so I don't think there would have been many complaints.
 
One of the fascinating things that happened between 1986 and 1991 was that TNG did become incredibly popular. TFF (1989) arguably still marches to the beat of it's own drum, still sure of TOS's stewardship over the universe as the parent program; yes Herman Zimmerman tried to create a kind of 'legacy' visually towards TNG, but narratively it feels like everyone involved was still keeping a certain 'us vs them' separation you know? By TUC (1991) we had TOS characters talking of the Alpha Quadrant, and Worf (or an ancestor) as a guest character. Suddenly, TOS was playing with TNG's toys, rather than the other way around, if that makes sense... TNG had 'broken through' and TOS was in many ways now subconsciously a secondary tier of the franchise compared to the spin off. Interesting.
 
1986: Star Trek seemed to be on a roll. A new movie had just come out, and a new TV show was on it's way. As we all know, the original cast would return to do two more films, one critically panned, the other seen as a landmark ending to the adventures of the classic Enterprise crew. But what if those other two films hadn't happened at all?

Say "Star Trek: The Next Generation" began production on season 2, and William Shatner approached Paramount to direct his own new Trek film, but the studio decided, "Y'know, Bill, that's nice and all, but they said it best in the third movie: Your day is over." And with that, the classic crew were never to be seen again after warping off to the final frontier in the brand-new Enterprise-A.

Would it have been a good ending? A fitting conclusion to the voyages of the Enterprise crew? In my opinion, yes, actually. Neither of the films that followed captured the same essence of what made the early four Star Trek motion pictures so, for lack of a better word, magical. You had the family reunion in TMP, then the Genesis Trilogy of films. Did we even need another two films? Let's see what you've got to say! :)

I pretty much agree with your sentiment, with one exception: I would have liked TNG to have taken place only twenty or so years after TVH, and have the new ship be the Enterprise-B, not the D (more on that in a sec).

TVH was absolutely the best way they could have ended the TOS crew's story, just like "All Good Things..." was the best way to end the TNG crew's story. The problem in both cases was that money became more important than common sense. Sometimes, milking a franchise for all its worth is more detrimental than just letting it go. Leave the further adventures of Kirk, Spock, et. al to the imagination. That's far better than what we actually got, IMHO.

But imagine this scenario: TNG starts with the Enterprise-A being retired after twenty years of service, and her replacement, the Enterprise-B, is revealed (the same model that we got in TNG, just with a "B" instead of a "D"). We see Kirk and crew for one final mission before the baton is passed to Picard and the Ent-B crew.
 
If they did that, keeping it the Excelsior Class "B" would have been the way to go. It could have still had experimental holodecks, a new Klingon exchange officer after the cold war thaws, and been basically the same show that we got. TNG uniforms under "dress" uniform monster maroons or something. The inevitable later season crossovers wouldn't have need convoluted explanations, or an aged beyond recognition McCoy.
 
If they did that, keeping it the Excelsior Class "B" would have been the way to go. It could have still had experimental holodecks, a new Klingon exchange officer after the cold war thaws, and been basically the same show that we got. TNG uniforms under "dress" uniform monster maroons or something. The inevitable later season crossovers wouldn't have need convoluted explanations, or an aged beyond recognition McCoy.

They would not have used a 3 year old movie model as the new ship. Especially not the Excelsior model, as vilified by fans as it was at the time. Plus, the Excelsior model wasn’t designed to have a detachable saucer as far as I know.

I agree with all your other points, however.
 
They would not have used a 3 year old movie model as the new ship. Especially not the Excelsior model, as vilified by fans as it was at the time. Plus, the Excelsior model wasn’t designed to have a detachable saucer as far as I know.

I agree with all your other points, however.

I just really can't stand the "D" model at all and was never a fan of the 90s luxury sedan aesthetic of the show. The "B" model isn't perfect but it stays in line with what the movies were doing, and if the whole point of this exercise is to extend it from the movies instead of timejumping a century, then keeping the look more grounded in the TOS movie aesthetic is a must. As a kid, I never knew of the hate for the Excelsior, and knew Scotty had just sabotaged it (not that it was actual junk), and was really expecting them to get a ship like that at the end of TVH. It still has the general connie shape. I never had a problem with it. A totally different redesign would be acceptable, but not the Galaxy Class.....

I still think its a shame that we never got a series set aboard any of the "refit" Enterprise's, and seeing them on the Bridge heading out one last time at the end of TUC lost a little something, IMO, by not being a familiar sight, since we had never seen that version of the "A" until that movie.
 
I just really can't stand the "D" model at all and was never a fan of the 90s luxury sedan aesthetic of the show. The "B" model isn't perfect but it stays in line with what the movies were doing, and if the whole point of this exercise is to extend it from the movies instead of timejumping a century, then keeping the look more grounded in the TOS movie aesthetic is a must. As a kid, I never knew of the hate for the Excelsior, and knew Scotty had just sabotaged it (not that it was actual junk), and was really expecting them to get a ship like that at the end of TVH. It still has the general connie shape. I never had a problem with it. A totally different redesign would be acceptable, but not the Galaxy Class.....

I still think its a shame that we never got a series set aboard any of the "refit" Enterprise's, and seeing them on the Bridge heading out one last time at the end of TUC lost a little something, IMO, by not being a familiar sight, since we had never seen that version of the "A" until that movie.

Andrew Probert designed the Enterprise-D, but he also designed the Constitution class refit, which was basically the epitome of the TMP-era’s starship design. I think the idea for the D was that it would be more of a “hotel in space” rather than the more militaristic tones of the refit and A. That idea probably wouldn’t have changed had TNG taken place only twenty years later instead of seventy.
 
If TUC didn't exist, then I would say TVH would have been an excellent and fitting end to the movie series. However, TUC does in fact exist, and is an excellent and fitting end to the movie series.

It's a hard choice to make, though, because TVH is my all-time favorite any movie.
Mine too, actually. In fact it's my first Star Trek, before I knew any of the characters.

Had seen Wrath of Khan as an 8yo but didn't absorb anything from it besides the really spooky collateral damage. Voyage Home was the first time I "kinda sorta got it." We did some astronomy in my seventh grade science, so this was powerful stuff. The mysterious "not quite first contact" themes and environmental subtext (and haunting image of the Probe sucking up the ocean) made for a real larger-than-life experience. I actually think it was the best possible introduction to ST at the time. Star Wars was CBS' Saturday Night movie that same weekend (I'm thinking it was February '87 by the time the scratched-up print of TVH came to our theater), and I saw that (as in "actually" watched it) for the first time as well. It was great.

The Undiscovered Country became my favorite ST for almost ten years before I finally acknowledged Wrath Of Khan as a better movie. But lately I've come back around to The Voyage Home. It's the one with the most scale for me, it's got heart, you can tell the crew loved making it, and Nimoy loved his co-stars. The whole "ensemble cast" thing of TNG? Yeah, DS9 did it better kids. But TVH did it first.
One of the fascinating things that happened between 1986 and 1991 was that TNG did become incredibly popular. TFF (1989) arguably still marches to the beat of it's own drum, still sure of TOS's stewardship over the universe as the parent program; yes Herman Zimmerman tried to create a kind of 'legacy' visually towards TNG, but narratively it feels like everyone involved was still keeping a certain 'us vs them' separation you know? By TUC (1991) we had TOS characters talking of the Alpha Quadrant, and Worf (or an ancestor) as a guest character. Suddenly, TOS was playing with TNG's toys, rather than the other way around, if that makes sense... TNG had 'broken through' and TOS was in many ways now subconsciously a secondary tier of the franchise compared to the spin off. Interesting.
I feel like The Final Frontier's lackluster performance and TNG's strong 3rd season both came together as the turning point for that. TNG I followed from the start, the movies I had to catch up on over time. And I have to tell you, I just assumed TOS was over with TNG happening. The idea that something might continue on after I'd caught up with it hadn't occurred to me either (solipsistic much?). First I knew of The Final Frontier was I think Patrick Stewart (very briefly) announced it after hosting a broadcast of 'The Cage' (Writer's Guild strike delayed TNG Season 2 until Thanksgiving weekend if I recall, and Paramount probably released the Steward-hosted episode to TNG's syndicators as a kind of "Hey, we're still here").

It's always struck me that the last two films seem kind of invisible to the public eye compared to the First Four -- although that may be just my perception because of when I caught up. And people tend to confuse the two. "Star Trek VI, is that the one where they go find god? Is that the one Shatner did?" I hear that a lot.
I pretty much agree with your sentiment, with one exception: I would have liked TNG to have taken place only twenty or so years after TVH, and have the new ship be the Enterprise-B, not the D (more on that in a sec).

Imagine this scenario: TNG starts with the Enterprise-A being retired after twenty years of service, and her replacement, the Enterprise-B, is revealed (the same model that we got in TNG, just with a "B" instead of a "D"). We see Kirk and crew for one final mission before the baton is passed to Picard and the Ent-B crew.
Roddenberry really didn't like the Harve Bennett films at all, and I think he wanted to get as far away from them as possible. TNG wears its dismissal of them (especially The Wrath of Khan) practically on its sleeve. I feel like that's why the cheesy "bubble forcefield" TV effect, the skintight jumpsuits with primary colors, and the aesthetic rewind to The Motion Picture with the "streamlined" look to the sets and its theme music. I also take the title Next Generation as referring more to the franchise than the characters. And Roddenberry wanted to disregard a lot of Classic TOS as well. TNG is in a lot of ways the same reboot that the Abrams movies are, and has always existed one parallel universe apart for me. I don't think there's any way he would have considered setting the timelines closer together.

It's often struck me though what Workbee just said about The Wrath of Khan symbolically kicking off a new generation (as part of the old men retiring theme), and how that handoff was basically forgotten in the sequels. Wrath of Khan was thought to be the last film, to the point that Nimoy thought dying in it was what made his involvement worthwhile. And it works as an alternative "last" film, even with his spoken narration at the end (or perhaps especially with it). So it's unfortunate in a way that Meyer's, Bennett's and Roddenberry's plans couldn't have more tightly coalesced. I've never considered that possibility before.

(Though I do feel strongly about every production being it's own thing -- something I think Bennett and Meyer (and Nimoy) seemingly understood better than the studio/UPN/Berman Team did.)
 
1986: Star Trek seemed to be on a roll. A new movie [The Voyage] had just come out, and a new TV show [The Next Generation] was on it's way. As we all know, the original cast would return to do two more films [The Final Frontier, The Undiscovered Country], one critically panned, the other seen as a landmark ending to the adventures of the classic Enterprise crew. But what if those other two films hadn't happened at all?... Would it [The Undiscovered Country] have been a good ending? A fitting conclusion to the voyages of the Enterprise crew? ...

Well, I think the focus is a little off. What taints the legacy of the classic Crew of The Original Series and marred their final adventure was the abysmal Star Trek Generations. Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country was a better send-off simply because it was designed to be. Could Star Trek: The Voyage Home served the same purpose? Sure, if it had to. Generations would still have undercut and tarnished it.
 
Well, I think the focus is a little off. What taints the legacy of the classic Crew of The Original Series and marred their final adventure was the abysmal Star Trek Generations. Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country was a better send-off simply because it was designed to be. Could Star Trek: The Voyage Home served the same purpose? Sure, if it had to. Generations would still have undercut and tarnished it.
I don't really count Generations as anything more than a TNG film. I think the studio wanted it to be a mainstream crossover movie event (the absence of a colon in the title suggests as much), but they really just handed it to the TNG production crew, who mostly hired their in-family team of usual suspects. They got John Alonzo as cinematographer (NICE!!) and brought ILM back for I think the first time since 'Encounter at Farpoint', but then settled on their TV series team of screenwriters (with all respect to Ron Moore) plus composer Dennis McCarthy when they couldn't get Jerry Goldsmith (so the music would at least be recognizable as TNG's ponderously signature background noise).

Much was made about the "passing of the baton" (literally almost those exact words in every media publication), but really the baton had already been passed. The Undiscovered Country had already tipped its hat to TNG despite its lack of research, featured a more epic scope and a moodily operatic tone. Which made Generations seem weird and underwhelming as a follow-up. And I don't feel like Generations even watched TUC, whereas one can easily understand TUC being out of touch with 100 episodes of TNG.
 
One of the fascinating things that happened between 1986 and 1991 was that TNG did become incredibly popular. TFF (1989) arguably still marches to the beat of it's own drum, still sure of TOS's stewardship over the universe as the parent program; yes Herman Zimmerman tried to create a kind of 'legacy' visually towards TNG, but narratively it feels like everyone involved was still keeping a certain 'us vs them' separation you know? By TUC (1991) we had TOS characters talking of the Alpha Quadrant, and Worf (or an ancestor) as a guest character. Suddenly, TOS was playing with TNG's toys, rather than the other way around, if that makes sense... TNG had 'broken through' and TOS was in many ways now subconsciously a secondary tier of the franchise compared to the spin off. Interesting.

You're right, TUC would not be what it was without TNG's presence. That's why all those allusions to TNG exist in that film because everyone knew that TOS's time had come and with the 25th anniversary there wasn't a better time to cue their exit than in 1991. They were very lucky to after TFF bombed, we can at least thank Paramount for giving TOS one last shot to shine.

I do think TFF was at least in partly inspired by in small ways TNG. I don't mean the integration of Zimmerman's aesthetic bridging the two eras, but the fact that it ends with Kirk inviting the Klingons to come over for drinks to their version of Ten Forward. It feels like Shatner trying to say that this was a prelude to their alliance in the 24th century.
 
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