Game Of Thrones Season 5 TV Only Discussion (Spoilers)

[Tom]

This thread is for people who have not read the GoT books and want to talk about the episodes of season 5. if you want to talk about the show and books please go to "A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion" thread.

Please note, that the first 4 episodes of season 5 have leaked and many of us have seen them. Please keep all the talk in this thread based on the episodes that have officially aired on HBO.

 

[theenglish]

The first FOUR episodes!?!

So can those of us who have read the books still join this discussion?

 

[Tom]

The first FOUR episodes!?!

So can those of us who have read the books still join this discussion?

Of course, get looking to avoid spoilers from what is in the books.

 

[Reverend]

Even though I've read the books, the last one was a bit of a blur for me so besides the odd detail or two, as far as my memory is concerned I'm about as caught up as any of you illiterate types.

 

[SiddFinch1]

From what i read they are going to deviate a lot from the books

 

[Forbin]

Poor Dani - she pissed off her dragons by locking them up in a dark dungeon with no light or food. Damn ungrateful lizards.

 

[chrisspringob]

So here's a question I thought of when I saw the scene with Gilly: How old is her baby now? Should we actually see it start aging into a toddler over the course of the coming season (or next)?

From looking up on Wikipedia to remind myself, I guess Sam and Gilly fled Craster's Keep in Season 3 Episode 4, just after the baby was born. Then if memory serves, they spend the entire rest of the season walking back to Castle Black. How long should that have taken? Even if they're slow, it can't be more than a couple of weeks, right? And then Season 4 probably took place over no more than about a month. (Tyrion is arrested for Joff's death as early as Episode 2, and I don't think the wheels of justice in a society like Westoros turn that slowly. Also, how long could it possibly have taken Arya and the Hound to reach the Vale?)

So let's say that the length of time from 3x04 to 5x01 is no more than about two months, and so the baby should still be a baby. But if this or subsequent seasons speed up the passage of time, then we could see him become a toddler.

It does seem weird that the passage of time in Danny's storyline from the time she picked up the Unsullied army to now is only two months, but that's the way it seems to work out. I guess previous seasons took longer, because in Season 1 for example, you had to go through the Danny pregnancy thing, and all the wandering around with the Dothraki. It didn't feel like that much time was passing in Westoros though.

 

[DigificWriter]

I haven't been able to stand Varys up to this point, but Conleth Hill won me over with one simple phrase: "Who said anything about HIM?"

 

[chrisspringob]

In the opening scene, the witch says to young Cersei:

"You'll be queen. For a time. Then comes another…younger, more beautiful, to cast you down and take all you hold dear."

Who do you think the younger, more beautiful queen will be, who'll replace Cersei? I assume Cersei would figure that it would be Margaery. But Danny is another obvious possibility.

Another possibility would be Sansa, if she manages to marry the right person. And then there's also Shireen Baratheon.

 

[Tom]

In the opening scene, the witch says to young Cersei:

"You'll be queen. For a time. Then comes another…younger, more beautiful, to cast you down and take all you hold dear."

Who do you think the younger, more beautiful queen will be, who'll replace Cersei? I assume Cersei would figure that it would be Margaery. But Danny is another obvious possibility.

Another possibility would be Sansa, if she manages to marry the right person. And then there's also Shireen Baratheon.

This will be pretty much answered in the next episode. Yes, i'm bad and watched the first 3 leaked episodes. I wont spoil anything though.

 

[Ethros]

Just had a 4 hour Westeros binge... well that's a month to go till episode 5 then

 

[JirinPanthosa]

In the opening scene, the witch says to young Cersei:

"You'll be queen. For a time. Then comes another…younger, more beautiful, to cast you down and take all you hold dear."

Who do you think the younger, more beautiful queen will be, who'll replace Cersei? I assume Cersei would figure that it would be Margaery. But Danny is another obvious possibility.

Another possibility would be Sansa, if she manages to marry the right person. And then there's also Shireen Baratheon.

It seemed strongly implied to be Margery. They panned to her right after the flashback.

The whole 'three golden crowns, three golden shrouds' does not bode well for Tommen and Marsela.

Is it me, or does the style of the show seem to be a little different in the first episode? People are making grand speeches to express themselves instead of subtly posturing like they did the rest of the series. Maybe that's only because Tiwyn is gone. Also there's a sudden explosion of idealism even greater than Ned's. Also the witch scene at the start is the first scene in the series that did not take place in the present, GoT hasn't been the sort of show that has flashbacks until now.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I don't mind the show departing from the books (I haven't read the books) but my concern when they do is they will always move in the direction of melodramatic confrontations and showcasing their favorite actors.

If they follow the book, all the decisions the characters make will be based strictly on the character's internal motives. Whereas if they depart from the book they will probably change the character's internal motives to get their preferred combinations on screen. (Which they did for Varys in this episode).

 

[chrisspringob]

In the opening scene, the witch says to young Cersei:

"You'll be queen. For a time. Then comes another…younger, more beautiful, to cast you down and take all you hold dear."

Who do you think the younger, more beautiful queen will be, who'll replace Cersei? I assume Cersei would figure that it would be Margaery. But Danny is another obvious possibility.

Another possibility would be Sansa, if she manages to marry the right person. And then there's also Shireen Baratheon.

It seemed strongly implied to be Margery. They panned to her right after the flashback.

I think Cersei believes that it's Margaery, and that that's why we saw that flashback just now, to help us understand what's motivating Cersei: She remembers this encounter with the witch all those years ago, remembers the bit about a younger queen taking her place, and is convinced that it's Margaery. And that's why she's so desperate to undermine Margaery.

But that's why I think it's probably *not* Margaery. Because it's too obvious. That's just not how things normally work in dramatic fiction. Usually when you get a prophecy, and the interpretation seems obvious from the moment we're shown the prophecy, that's because we're being tricked, and the correct interpretation is actually somewhat different.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Denerys is an obvious option, but doesn't quite fit the prophecy. Denerys isn't trying to take what she has, she's trying to take what the men in her life have. And I can't imagine her butchering her children the way the Targarian children were butchered. Sansa fits a little better. Also if Tommen and Myrcella died as the result of an invasion they wouldn't be given golden shrouds.

Game of Thrones has never quite worked by the same logic as other dramatic fiction. By the rules of other dramatic fiction, Ned Stark would still be the main protagonist. Maybe the TV writers are going to take it in that direction though. It just seems more like the sort of plot device that would happen on Lost than Game of Thrones.

Also, notice it said 'Three golden crowns, three golden shrouds'. Jaffrey and Tommen had their crowns, where does the third golden crown come from? Myrcella is engaged to the youngest Prince, not the heir. Something more has to happen before the third golden crown materializes. I suppose if Tommen died Myrcella would become the heir and her husband would become King.

And it really annoys me how blatantly they ripped off Macbeth here. I can't believe they included a story point like this in the same franchise as I've been watching for four years.

 

[Venardhi]

"Crown" can also refer to their hair. Prophecies can be tricky like that.

There are a lot of prophecies in the books and more than a few in the show already. They're practically all over the place in fact and vague enough that both the characters and the readers/viewers can find numerous ways to fulfill them with wildly variant evidence.

 

[theenglish]

It does seem weird that the passage of time in Danny's storyline from the time she picked up the Unsullied army to now is only two months, but that's the way it seems to work out. I guess previous seasons took longer, because in Season 1 for example, you had to go through the Danny pregnancy thing, and all the wandering around with the Dothraki. It didn't feel like that much time was passing in Westoros though.

The way the episodes are structured seems to imply that not all of the events are always synced time wise. Also the exact span of time for any event is left vague.

Think about travel times across vast distances for example. This episode must take place several weeks after the end of the previous episode. Tyrion has crossed the sea and lords have traveled to King's Landing from all over the realms. Yet not much time at all seems to have passed for Brienne since her fight with the Hound.

 

[Venardhi]

Based on his beard, I'd say about 6 weeks for Tyrion, whereas other events can't have been more than days.

 

[chrisspringob]

It does seem weird that the passage of time in Danny's storyline from the time she picked up the Unsullied army to now is only two months, but that's the way it seems to work out. I guess previous seasons took longer, because in Season 1 for example, you had to go through the Danny pregnancy thing, and all the wandering around with the Dothraki. It didn't feel like that much time was passing in Westoros though.

The way the episodes are structured seems to imply that not all of the events are always synced time wise. Also the exact span of time for any event is left vague.

Right, but in general, it feels like more time has passed since Season 1, Episode 1 for the Danny plot than for everything that's happening in Westoros, yet they have to kind of sync up somewhat for the times when the storylines overlap (Robert talking about Viserys early in Season 1, then the assassination attempt, etc.). Maybe that's just a Season 1 problem though.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Lots of interesting departures for some of these characters. I honestly have no idea where Littlefinger is taking Sansa. A sad twist of fate that their carriage just meandered by Brienne and Pod while they were resting. Curious where their story is headed as well, especially since Brienne is really currently without much of a purpose. And Mance! They are REALLY moving in a different direction than what I expected. Never would have expected that last scene. Dany's story seems to be progressing as expected, but I'm surprised that Varys will be going with Tyrion to go meet her. He always was a Targaryen loyalist, though, so the motivation still works there. I can see they really had to do some serious rewriting of various plotlines to account for the fragmented and out-of-sync travelogues that were in Feast For Crows and Dance With Dragons. Seems to work so far.