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All the Negative people.

My negativity.. if that's the word you want to use to sum me up... stems form the fact that I actually care about this franchise. I've cared about it my whole life.

We all care about the franchise. Do you honestly think that we'd all be hanging out on a Star Trek BBS if we didn't? Most of us here are lifelong fans. I remember one night when I was 2 or 3 in a hotel and my dad was flipping through channels and stopped on an episode of Star Trek. I watched from under the covers. I remember being not much older than that and having my mom rent the VHS of TMP and watching it from one of our kitchen table captain's chairs so I could be just like Kirk. (I can't imagine I actually finished that movie at that age... but I appreciate it now.)

I hardly remember a time when Star Trek 2 was unseen by me, and it is one of the best films I think I'll ever see.

I'm sorry, but if TWOK is one of the best films you've ever seen, I think you need to watch a lot more film. Its a good movie. I will admit, I find it a little overrated but I understand that there is a lot of love for the movie. (My feeling that its overrated comes from the fact that it is considered the pinnacle of filmmaking in regards to Trek. That, in my mind, is a low bar if you're going with TWOK or any Star Trek movie in existence.) Its not in my top ten let alone my top 50 movies of all time. But of course, to each his own.

The stories are ok actually, but just the execution is so unappealing to me personally . I do think.. despite me not liking the characters (Mariner, Boimler, and the senior staff) very much, this show could work as a live action series with 43 minutes, where the jokes can be paced well and the dialogue can feel more genuine.

Its a different kind of a series than anything that's come before it in the franchise. Honestly, that's why I find it appealing. Like you, I grew up on the TNG era. It had its place and its time, but if Star Trek is going to survive, its going to need to appeal to a broader base than just those who were growing up watching the adventures of Picard, Sisko, Janeway, Archer and their respective crews. I am not going to suggest for a moment that you can't criticize any of these new shows. They all have their faults. But warts and all, I personally enjoy them. And I care about this franchise. I want to see it succeed. And yes, at some point, there's probably going to be a point where I say, "Yeah, that's not for me." But right now what it needs to do is not lock itself in a box from 1994. It needs to experiment, to evolve. Yeah, that may mean some uncomfortable moments and some realization that this particular incarnation isn't for a viewer. Or it might mean that none of the current iterations are right for the viewer. But, you still have your DVDs of the shows and movies you do love. After all, one of the cornerstones of Star Trek is acceptance. You don't have to like it. You don't have to watch it. But you can accept that it is a thing. And move on. And believe me, I know how hard that can be.

Here is my comparison: when Braga and Moore were first given the assignment to write Generations, which was to have Kirk and Picard meet, Braga said on the commentary that the first thing he does is create an image.. in fact.. and image of what a movie poster could be like, and he imagined one of the two enterprises locked in battle "kirk vs Picard.. this summer" but alas thaey didn't make that movie. Later in the commentary, during the scene where they are actually making eggs together and Braga said "I think [the audience] wanted something a little more high octane than hanging around the house, making eggs, and it's as far from the poster that he imagined.

I'm glad they didn't make that movie. I don't ultimately know what I would have really wanted for Generations, but it was certainly not that. Nor what we got.

This series, LD, is just veering far away from Trek as it could be, mainly because of how quick it is, how it is drawn, how trivial it makes everything feel (from exploration, to first contacts, etc).

The idea is that this show is showing a different side of Starfleet. Not every show can be focused around the most important ship in the fleet. That, in my opinion, gets boring after awhile.
 
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No series will ever be liked by everyone. Personally I think DIS and PIC are bad, DIS more so than PIC, but both were huge disappointments for me. But I like LD. It is fun and entertaining. They have different missions, visit other planets and meet a lot of other alien species. The characters are fun and likeable, too. And I like the look of the series. Everything is so bright and colourful and the tone of the series is like that, too. DIS and PIC went too far for my taste into the dark, dreary and depressive direction. They were way too obsessed with making things gritty. They felt more dystopian than utopian to me. LD being a lighthearted comedy series went into completely the opposite direction than DIS and PIC and it works for it. Though for a live action series that amount of over the top comedy and craziness might be too much, but it works well for an animated series. If SNW will be tone and style wise in the middle of DIS/PIC on the one side and LD on the other side, that might be ideal.
 
If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times: There are, as of today, ten series, thirteen movies bringing the total of filmed adventures of Star Trek to 791 (with more obviously in various levels of production). One cannot, for a moment, suggest that there is an agreement upon all fans which is the best or worst of the entire franchise. On top of that, Star Trek is different things to different people. Some care about the characters, some the stories, some the tech, some the optimistic vision of the future. At the end of the day though, there is one constant: It is all Star Trek. This idea that we all have to like the same thing, that we all have to have the same feelings about the series, just doesn't hold true to the concept of diversity. Its an important tenet in Trek, which has been brought up by multiple posters in this thread. We're just not all going to agree on what makes Star Trek Star Trek, because its different for all of us.
 
This idea that we all have to like the same thing, that we all have to have the same feelings about the series, just doesn't hold true to the concept of diversity. Its an important tenet in Trek, which has been brought up by multiple posters in this thread. We're just not all going to agree on what makes Star Trek Star Trek, because its different for all of us.
Exactly so. I'm firmly established that Berman era Trek is not what I enjoy in Trek and I think TWOK is a well made but highly overrated film. But, that doesn't make them less Trek. And as well established in this thread, both TMP and TNG could easily be written off as not Star Trek if held to the standards made by YouTube videos these days.

But, it is all Star Trek. But not all Star Trek is for all Trek fans.
 
Exactly so. I'm firmly established that Berman era Trek is not what I enjoy in Trek and I think TWOK is a well made but highly overrated film. But, that doesn't make them less Trek. And as well established in this thread, both TMP and TNG could easily be written off as not Star Trek if held to the standards made by YouTube videos these days.

But, it is all Star Trek. But not all Star Trek is for all Trek fans.

To be fair, Star Trek fans have been calling things #notcanon since 1968. Doesn't make the fans in 2020 any more right than they were in 1970.
 
Please enjoy my (well, Dale's) review of Lower Decks! Not as negative as those of the homeless reactionary beardos! (Beyond that, I make no promises.) Drop a comment-- maybe I'll make more!

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(And I do love me some Star Trek--enough to make my own demi-parody comic book out of it! Take a gander at issue #1 of Kobayashi Maru!)
 
TrekCulture is a corporate joke.. earning millions of views due to the fact that it is basically WhatCulture. Why not support the smaller, hardworking channels that talk about Trek in a less superficial way? What you a re doing is everything wrong with fandom and YouTube
Really? Star Trek is at it's core ENTERTAINMENT - The whole "Star Trek is great philosophy..." was crap created by GR to get some fans who thought they were somehow 'more intelligent' than everyone else to feel better about liking his show.

there was a time when Star Trek was entertaining science fiction. I personally am sick that it's evolved into a "If it's NOT social commentary, then it's OT STAR TREK!!!111!!!" - and that somehow everything on Star Trek is some elevated philosophical or it's garbage.
^^^
That's everything that's wrong with a lot of the "Star Trek Fandom" I experience today. YMMV.
 
Really? Star Trek is at it's core ENTERTAINMENT - The whole "Star Trek is great philosophy..." was crap created by GR to get some fans who thought they were somehow 'more intelligent' than everyone else to feel better about liking his show.
Exactly. And grow quite tired of being told that Star Trek should somehow be treated differently than other entertainment properties. Short answer is NO!

Long answer is

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I don't think I can make myself any more clear.
 
I like to think that Star Trek has made me a smarter, better person. But it has more to do with interactions with fandom than anything put on the screen.
 
Exactly. And grow quite tired of being told that Star Trek should somehow be treated differently than other entertainment properties. Short answer is NO!
At the end of the day, it is either a collection of well-written stories or it isn't. This is what I think F*ck Trek lacks: really good stories with headier topics interwoven into them.

You also need investment in the characters for the stories to actually click, too. Would "Measure of a Man" have been as important if it were the second episode of TNG, instead of debuting well down the line after we have gotten to know the person of Commander Data?

Conversely, look how much good will was taken out of the character of Data by the mawkish and non-canonical way Picard treated that character.
 
At the end of the day, it is either a collection of well-written stories or it isn't. This is what I think F*ck Trek lacks: really good stories with headier topics interwoven into them.
That's what I think I have gotten. :shrug:

Conversely, look how much good will was taken out of the character of Data by the mawkish and non-canonical way Picard treated that character.
I have no idea what this means.
 
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