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A lover defends Voyager

Vykan12

Lieutenant Commander
Red Shirt
I seem to be in the minority that think Voyager was an excellent show. First, let me start off by saying I’ve entered the whole Star Trek scene a bit late. I’ve only seen any episodes this year through torrenting, and after having seen all 7 seasons of Voyager, 2 of DS9 and 2 of TNG, I personally found Voyager to be by far the most impressive of the bunch.

One of the common criticisms I’ve read on my short stay as a lurker on this board is that Voyager lacks continuity. For one thing, this is only partially true, as there’s some aspects of the show that do retain continuity, such as b’Elanna’s and Paris’ relationship, the monthly contact between Star Fleet and Voyager in the later episodes, the existence of the Delta Flier, among other things. I’ve also seen complaints about the implausibility of the sheer amounts of torpedoes and shuttle crafts that Voyager expends. However, there are so many ways to account for this. It is well known that Voyager takes many excursions to nearby planets to replenish on supplies such as dilithium, so that alone generates the opportunity to re-supply on the parts necessary for shuttle crafts and torpedoes. They also acquire items through trade with other civilizations, and of course they have this nifty little thing called a replicator. In fact, the Tom mentions using replicated parts to build the Delta Flier. Though even if these explanations didn’t exist, it really shouldn’t matter because any Star Trek show requires some level of suspension of disbelief. Ever notice how secondary characters tend to be far more expendable than primary ones? Notice how most Star Trek episodes have fairy tale endings? Voyager shouldn’t be given additional criticism for flaws that every generation of Star Trek suffers from, a lot of which has to do with the constraints of television shows (equal length of each episode as ~45 minutes, for instance).

Another frequent complaint is about constant technobabble. Personally, I found the technobabble engaging, it just seems to help me immerse in the notion of 24th century space exploration. Perhaps I have some bias seeing as I’m a pure + applied science student, but there is just something refreshing about routinely hearing “plasma conduit”, “nutrino emissions”, “power matrix”, etc… instead of free-talk or laymen explanations of scientific phenomena. Moreover, the babble adds authenticity to B’Elanna’s status as an engineer, and gives us the impression that these space travellers are intellectually sophisticated, not just some space-bound renegades or something.

Though most of all, I found Voyager’s characters to be immensely appealing.

Janeway: She’s a bit too emotional for my tastes, and is a bit hypocritical about her treatment of the prime directive (though what star fleet captain isn’t?). Nonetheless, she definitely harbors a lot of interesting internal conflicts in carrying out her duty as a captain, and is an easy character to relate to because of it. I will concede she is no Picard though Sisco has nothing on her. Sisco doesn’t possess the kind of conviction you’d expect of a Star Fleet captain, and feels very secondary to the whole Bejor-Kardasia conflict. In fact, the only aspect about him I don’t find to be bland is his relationship with his son, and some of the tribulations he faces in the loss of his wife.

Neelix: I can see how many people could easily detest him, but I find there is a certain charm to his enthusiastic personality. He’s basically the epitome of a socialite being, and his overly flamboyant nature provides a nice contrast to the other characters in the show, who tend to be more solemn.

Tuvok: I have no idea how he compares to Spock, but nevertheless you have got to love his excessively logical nature. He often provides meaningful insights into the flaws of human behavior, while also providing comic relief in his contempt for “trivial” conversation, his incessant desire for solitude, and his powerful intolerance towards emotionally based behavior.

Tom Paris: There’s no question that Paris is a cliché’d “bad boy” persona, especially with the show’s over-emphasis on his simplistic tastes (Captain Proton? Come on!). Still, there is something to be said for his progression from a rebel/criminal into a more responsible man. What personality evolution do you get out of people like O’Brien, Dax, Quark, Diana Troy, etc?

B’Elanna Torres: IMO, she is leagues more interesting than Jordi LeForge. From what I’ve seen, the only remotely interesting aspect of LeForge is his visor, which is only majorly explored in one episode, while having minor recognition in a couple others (for instance, LeForge at one point mentions his superior vision allows him to detect the signs of a human lying). B’Elanna, however, has a far more developed backstory about her half Cling-On heritage, she is far more crucial to the story, and has an existent set of conflicts (being a Maquis, racial conflicts, love relationship, etc).

The Doctor: The mere fact that the Doctor is a holographic projection makes him a fascinating character. There really is no other Doctor in the series who can compete with the ethical dilemmas of holograms gaining recognition as sentient beings, having unique properties such as not needing nourishment or sleep, being able to add routines to his program to alter his personality, etc. He basically exemplifies what science fiction is all about: exploring human issues through the lives of characters subject to the reality of whatever futuristic setting they pertain to.

7 of 9: There’s no doubt the phrases “we are the borg” “you shall be assimilated”, “the collective”, “irrelevant”, “inefficient”, etc, have been painfully overused thanks to this character. However, 7 offers us the opportunity to view someone who is completely unfamiliar with what it is to be human, and view how she adapts to it. Her struggles are authentic, and we can always sympathize how she can find solace in her past behaviors as a borg seeing how irrational human behavior must seem to her. There is also no denying that 7 is an incredible actor. Virtually the entire show, she portrays this rigid personality who works tenuously, but in one episode she adopts the personality of the Doctor. Her imitations of him are so masterful, one has to wonder what kind of acting role she cannot fulfill.

I’ll admit I’m not too fond of Harry or Chicoté, though once again the same can be said of every series. In TNG, Wes is the most vile, execrable thing to ever grace television (I exaggerate, but he truly is annoyingly juvenile, especially in the matters of love as seen in the episode “Dauphin”). Then there’s Kira, who despite having an interesting backstory that validates her personality traits, nonetheless comes off as a painfully emotional character, and Sisco who (as mentioned before) seems to have a fairly banal involvement in the story, and doesn’t possess anywhere near the same conviction or authority as Janeway or Picard do.

Oh, and just for kicks, Voyager has the best cast of minor characters. While TNG has Whoopi Goldberg (lol), and DS9 has Nog and O’Brian’s wife, Voyager has a creepy male Vulcan in Vorak, a sociopath beta-zoid, and a stuttering, awkard, but ultimately brilliant man in Barkley.

Other than that, there are some aspects of Voyager that I suspect go under-appreciated. Not to sound superficial, but there is something to be said for Voyager’s presentation and special effects. What I found particularly impressive was the atmosphere of Borg ships, and much of the same can be said for the design of the hunters, species 8472, the phage, the khazon, etc. Sure, there were a lot of generic looking alien species, many of which only had minor changes in skin color or in nose design. Though, (sounding like a broken record here) other Star Treks also suffer from this issue on occasion.

In conclusion, I can’t really understand why this series receives so much hatred. It almost makes me feel embarrassed at the nights I spent watching 5-6 episodes in a row, which I cannot say is also true of DS9, which dabbles too much with politics and sometimes feels direction-less, not to mention over-exploring what are at first intriguing character relationships (Odo and Quark constantly bickering, for instance). I’ll definitely concede that Voyager has its flaws. For example, there’s one episode where Paris goes at trans-warp speed, but the issue is never explored again, or how the Borg Civil War suddenly had no impact based on the season finale. Still, it seems to me there is far too much backlash towards a series that has consistently explored thought-provoking ethical issues, has an amazingly varied crew (black Vulcan, female commander, tol’axian, half cling-on, former borg, etc) that compliment each other well, and a respectable, consistent theme, all of which draw me to admire this show profoundly.

I apologize in advance for butchering the spelling of many names, as I am not that well versed in Star Trek culture just yet :P Also keep in mind that most of my arguments are subjectively based, so feel free to disagree with me. In fact, I wouldn’t mind seeing some persuasive evidence as to why this show is not well received, as it might allow me to appreciate Star Trek more fully.
 
Okay, well 1st off I completely disagree with you about DS9, but..

I think you make a lot of good points. I don't agree with all of them, but I have always felt that people are much harder on Voyager than any of the other Trek series (save Enterprise).

I think people are too hard on the technobabble stuff. I'm with you, it never bothered me that much. I think you could say that they overindulged in it a bit, and could have used that time to expand on the characters a little more. But I enjoy a lot of it.

You're right, there is some continuity in Voyager mayber even more than people realize. But as we've been discussing in the Hater revisits thread, there are some really glaring things that are totally ignored by the writers and (this much used phrase) lots of missed opportunities. A great deal of the initial premise is thrown away fairly quickly.

I feel that Voyager had a weaker main cast of characters and actors than the other TNG time period series, but part of that is because DS9 and TNG just have such amazing casts. The Voyager cast is mainly good, I just think they suffer a bit by comparison. That doesn't mean that they don't have a lot to offer though and some of them (for me Picardo in particular) can stand up to any of the other characters from any Trek series.

I think you're really off on the side characters thing. You only named two out of like 10 great side characters on DS9..You didn't even mention Martok, Weyoun or Garak! On this note Voyager completely fails for me.

I think there are more bad and mediocre episodes of Voyager than in the other series, especially in seasons 1-3. I think a lot of people saw these bad episodes or a few of them in a row and judged the entire series based on that. But Voyager also has a lot of great and even excellent episodes. Even a few of my all time favorite Trek episodes from any series are from Voyager.

To me, anybody who is a big fan of TNG period Trek is seriously missing out by skipping Voyager.
Despite the flaws there is way more to like than to dislike.
I've watched the entire series all the way through 6 or 7 times now and I still enjoy watching it today.
 
I'm glad to meet a fellow fan of Voyager then. And yes, you did butcher one name. It's Chakotay, not Chicote. :D I must be in the minority that loves Chakotay and finds him to be my favorite. He was the reason I watched the show every week. :) But then again, that's just me. :)
I had only seen a few seasons of DS9 myself and did enjoy them. However, I didn't like the idea of this show being set on a space station..basically the same thing happened on that station every single week. But I do like Avery Brooks and Nana Visitor as well as Terry Ferrell. ;)
 
First, let me say welcome to the board, Vykan12! It's always good to have new people around here. :techman:

I seem to be in the minority that think Voyager was an excellent show.
You are certainly not! This board is full of Voyager fans, you'll see. For many it's their favorite Trek series. It's not mine, but I still like it anyway.

... there’s some aspects of the show that do retain continuity, such as b’Elanna’s and Paris’ relationship, the monthly contact between Star Fleet and Voyager in the later episodes, the existence of the Delta Flier, among other things.
Well, one could argue that the fact that the name of the ship remains the same from week to week also constitutes good continuity. :p

I’ve also seen complaints about the implausibility of the sheer amounts of torpedoes and shuttle crafts that Voyager expends. However, there are so many ways to account for this.
Of course there are! Really, tell me any inconsistency (hell, even make up one if you want) and I will tell you a way to account for it. It's actually quite easy. :lol: That doesn't make it entertaining, though.

Another frequent complaint is about constant technobabble. Personally, I found the technobabble engaging, it just seems to help me immerse in the notion of 24th century space exploration.
Oh, I think the problem of technobabble is actually a thing most defenders of Voyager get totally wrong. For me it's not so much the fact that they are using technobabble. I don't mind technobabble. It shouldn't be overused, but the simple utilization of technobabble isn't something I have a problem with.

What I have a problem with, though, is when the writers use technobabble to resolve a plot point! That's just lazy writing, because it's always the easiest way out of a situation: Just make up a [technobabble] device that can heal the disease/stop the enemy/solve the problem with the computer. To me Voyager is guilty of using technobabble in this way too much.

Here's something interesting Jammer had to say about technobabble. I happen to absolutely agree with him, by the way.
Jammer said:
Indeed, the best way to explain something in terms of Trek tech is to not explain it: A machine can do X for the purposes of this story, but it will not do Y because Y is simply not what the writers want it to do.

However, some of the newer incarnations of Trek --Voyager in particular -- have tended to rely on overly arbitrary technology. Trek’s worst applications of technology can generally be found when they’re used to magically resolve plot points.

Fans and critics are quick to use the terms "technobabble" or "Treknobabble" to describe dialogue that doesn’t really mean anything but is inserted to move a story quickly from A to B. Truth be told, I have zero interest in technobabble and generally tune it out. The story has to work on its own merits, because tech generally cannot drive a Star Trek story.

Though most of all, I found Voyager’s characters to be immensely appealing.
This I can agree with. Voyager's characters are what I definitely love about this series. I like these people. Thinking about it, I think they are probably the very reason why I kept watching, in spite of my criticism.

Oh, and just for kicks, Voyager has the best cast of minor characters. While TNG has Whoopi Goldberg (lol), and DS9 has Nog and O’Brian’s wife, Voyager has a creepy male Vulcan in Vorak, a sociopath beta-zoid, and a stuttering, awkard, but ultimately brilliant man in Barkley.
Yes, Brad Dourif is pretty much a genius. But really, I don't think Voyager can compete with Deep Space Nine in terms of its secondary characters. I mean: Andrew Robinson, Louise Fletcher, Marc Alaimo, Jeffrey Combs, Wallace Shawn, Salome Jens, J.G. Hertzler ... need I continue? :D
 
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One of the common criticisms I’ve read on my short stay as a lurker on this board is that Voyager lacks continuity. For one thing, this is only partially true, as there’s some aspects of the show that do retain continuity, such as b’Elanna’s and Paris’ relationship, the monthly contact between Star Fleet and Voyager in the later episodes, the existence of the Delta Flier, among other things.

So you think Voyager has continuity because the writers remember Paris and B'Ellana are together one episode to the next and their biggest shuttle doesn't disappear? I'm sorry but that's like saying Voyager has continuity because they are in the Delta quadrant every episode and because Voyager always has two nacelles :lol:

I noticed how bad the continuity was after only a couple of seasons (and I'm not a big nitpicker). The number of crew on the ship fluctuated but never dropped below 140 despite the huge casualty list we've seen in quite a few episodes, there is also discontinuity over the number of telepaths/non humans aboard as well. If we are supposed to feel that we are a "voyager" as the syndication promos always asked, we shouldn't be constantly yanked out of their world by glaring inconsistencies such as the crew compliment increasing despite several crewmembers already having died.

I see why you are a big fan of Voyager and I would have been two if I had seen much more of Voyager before TNG or DS9.
Voyager has been criticised for not living up to its promise - what was supposed to differentiate it from TNG and DS9 - it was supposed to be stuck tens of thousands of lightyears away from friendly space except it never lived up to that promise. The ship always repaired and repainted itself miraculously and they all used the holodecks.
The show was basically TNG but tweaked a little. The reason you like Voyager so much and aren't bothered by its problems are mainly because you haven't seen all of TNG and DS9 (two seasons is not enough to judge believe me, especially if you're watching the first two seasons or watching episodes out of order- extremely important not to do with DS9) and don't realise how little it brought to the table.

I was in a similar position. My first Trek series I watched fully was "Enterprise". I thought it was amazing but the more I saw of the treks that preceded it the more I realised that Enterprise didn't deliver on its promise and paled in comparison to previous treks (season 3 and 4 got a lot better though). I still like it much like I like Voyager but having seen the different series' in their entirety and looking at it chronologically, Voyager is a dissapointment in the overall grand scheme of things.

Don't get me wrong, i think Voyager has some really good stuff, I adored Seven of Nine and it contains for me some of my favorite ever episodes of Trek (Blink of an Eye, Barge of the Dead, Before and After...any episode beginning with a B really) but it ultimately didn't evolve Trek like it should have.

I encourage you to watch all of DS9 in order and see how great Trek can be and how it delivered on its promise of something different from TNG/TOS while Voyager didn't.

P.S. You are not alone in having "cram watched" Voyager, I also watched 5-6 episodes in a row some nights and had a darned good time doing it...not as much fun as I had cram-watching DS9 however ;-)
 
I have no problems with Voyager per say. Having watched them originally broadcast when on tv, the Kazon were a somewhat weak and boring advesary and the the last two seasons just seemed to run out of energy and die. Voyager seasons 3-5 contain my favorite episodes.

I don't know what two seasons of TNG you were watching but seasons 3 and 4 are pure gold as are DS9 3-6 if watched in chronological order.
 
Okay, well 1st off I completely disagree with you about DS9, but..

Don’t get me wrong. I thoroughly enjoy DS9, and it’s starting to grow on me. I’m just not big on the religious nature of bejorans, or how the general theme of the plot relates to bejoran-kardasian politics. I’m also not big on Sisco’s acting (his manner of speaking seems awkward), nor am I really satisfied towards his role in the plot. Again, remember I am only 2 seasons in, and from what I’ve read the show gets better as it goes on. I must say the predatorial species that suicides into one of Star Fleet’s ships in S2 finale has me compelled to watch more, as did the later S2 episodes such as when O’Brien was framed for a crime that ended up having him deal with the unjust Kardasian judicial system.

A great deal of the initial premise is thrown away fairly quickly.

The initial premise is that the Voyager crew is stranded in the Delta Quadrant. How is that premise thrown away?

I think you're really off on the side characters thing. You only named two out of like 10 great side characters on DS9..You didn't even mention Martok, Weyoun or Garak! On this note Voyager completely fails for me.

I have no idea who Martok and Weyoun are, though I feel like hitting myself for forgetting Garak. Kardasians in general are highly appealing, since on the surface you admire their cheerful and clever nature, but upon further inspection get to see their more sinister qualities.

I've watched the entire series all the way through 6 or 7 times now and I still enjoy watching it today.

0_o hardcore. Do you watch other sci-fi such as Babylon 5 and Stargate this frequently as well?

The number of crew on the ship fluctuated but never dropped below 140 despite the huge casualty list we've seen in quite a few episodes, there is also discontinuity over the number of telepaths/non humans aboard as well.

That’s a rather subtle point. I sort of noticed this, but it wouldn’t really stand out that much to me unless I tracked how many crew members died on paper. Moreover, there is evidence that the Voyager crew recruited some people from other planets, at least in the main cast. It’s possible this happened with some of the secondary cast as well.

I see why you are a big fan of Voyager and I would have been two if I had seen much more of Voyager before TNG or DS9.
Voyager has been criticised for not living up to its promise - what was supposed to differentiate it from TNG and DS9 - it was supposed to be stuck tens of thousands of lightyears away from friendly space except it never lived up to that promise.

You trekkie fans must be really demanding then. If Voyager is a good standalone series, then how it compares relative to other Star Treks shouldn't be the sole indication of how well received it was.
 
The initial premise is that the Voyager crew is stranded in the Delta Quadrant. How is that premise thrown away?
Tell me this, which episodes do you have in mind that could only have been told under Voyager's premise – a ship stranded in the Delta Quadrant?

Moreover, there is evidence that the Voyager crew recruited some people from other planets, at least in the main cast. It’s possible this happened with some of the secondary cast as well.
And let me guess, that happened off-screen. How very entertaining. I think there lied an enormous amount of story possibilities.
 
There really is not evidence they picked up extra crewmembers from other planets or we would have seen them on the ship somewhere...

As for the initial premise being thrown away...The premise is that they should be in dire straits alone in a hostile region of space with no support. Yet despite this they still have time to faff about in holo-recreations of beach resorts and Irish villages? There simply aren't enough episodes dealing with the predicament they are in and too many where they float through space in their pristine spaceship investigating random anomalies and not really ever getting into the kind of trouble they should be getting into when they are a lone spaceship isolated thousands of lightyears across the galaxy.
The problem basically is that we already saw so much of this in TNG (and in fact many plots of Voyager bear a striking resemblance to TNG plots = read recycled plots) and people wanted something new from Voyager. Some people say there should have been a lot more "Year of Hell" and a lot less "Fair Haven" if you know what I mean.

I appreciate that you're only a couple of seasons into DS9, keep watching and don't ruin anything for yourself by looking over the DS9 boards or anything...you will be rewarded with the truly golden years of what TV Guide called the best show on television (at that time).
 
Tell me this, which episodes do you have in mind that could only have been told under Voyager's premise – a ship stranded in the Delta Quadrant?

Most of them, from memory. Even if it wasn't always the prime focus of an episode, there are definitely consistent reminders of Voyager's ultimate goal, and this is especially true of the later seasons. I can see that it might not have the same direction as DS9 in that respect, though.

Speaking of which, why do people think the series got progressively worse after S4? Those remaining seasons had 7 for one thing, and a lot more encounters with the borg, which I never seemed to tire of. The only remarkably bad thing I found was the borg queen's terrible acting (please add some inflection to your voice!)

Edit: Jaespol clarified the inconsistency with following the show's premise.
 
... you will be rewarded with the truly golden years of what TV Guide called the best show on television (at that time).
Not that it would be true for this board, but didn't TV Guide actually call it The best show on television no-one is watching? :lol:
 
I certainly don't hate Voyager. It's the first show I can recall watching from premiere to finale - my first memory of watching DS9 is of seeing the later half of 'Through The Looking Glass,' which is an interesting place to start, to say the least. But the phrase 'missed opportunities' DEFINITELY applies. We can handwave every replaced shuttle and torpedeo and the fairly stable supply of food and resources away, but that's the problem - we HAVE to handwave it away. It was only addressed in episodes where they needed the lack of resources to be a plot point.

Likewise, because of the fact that Voyager is constantly on the move, recurring adversarial species should have been fewer and there should have been a strong presence of recurring characters - we get a number of red-shirt/one-episode characters each week, but the only real recurrances of characters are the Borg kids (three of whom are written out with barely a thought) and Naomi. The show often attempts to give a message of how through their adversity, the crew has become a family. I don't buy it. Yeah, the Senior Staff (plus Seven and Neelix) have become a family, but not the rest of the crew, because they don't have their names in the opening credits.

The biggest offender of that is in the finale - Admiral Janeway says that twenty-six crewmen died on her journey home. Captain Janeway says 'that's an acceptible loss.' Admiral Janeway reveals Seven's among that twenty-six. Captain Janeway essentially says 'All right, crazy - you're driving, take the wheel.' That shows just how highly she rates the rest of the crew.

Likewise, there's an almost casual disrespect towards the ship itself. Yes, I consider having the ship always pristine and shiny and beautiful a disservice, because juryrigging can only do so much - the ship and sets should have been characters in their own rights, Voyager should have worn her scars, and she should have been close to falling apart by the end of the series, because she can't get regular maintenance. Lights should have been dim or out, there should have been some mix-and-match of designs on the hull to indicate where they've had to repair the hull breaches (and from a production standpoint, that would not have been as much of a problem as it used to be, since by about Season Four they were CGI'ing a lot of the exterior shots anyway).

When I look at the premise of Voyager - a ship full of Starfleet and Maquis, the later of whom broke away from the Federation after their homes were uncerimoniously and without the permission of the inhabitants handed over to the Cardassians, lost in the Delta Quadrant, seventy years of travel away from home and those they love - I see the potential for a psychologically deep series, about a ship filled with people who don't like each other, experiencing the hardships of never seeing their families again. I see the potential for a series that show the morally grey aspect of the Star Trek universe - what would you do to survive, how important do your morals become in a life-or-death situation. I would expect a show with this premise to have a number of recurring guest stars on ship, build a bit of a sense of community among the people in charge and the rest of the crew.

Voyager has its merits, but there's so many balls that were dropped (crew conflict, psychological drama, long-term consequences for events) that hamper my enjoyment of them - because to me, the 'what might have been' becomes more interesting than the 'what is.'
 
Tell me this, which episodes do you have in mind that could only have been told under Voyager's premise – a ship stranded in the Delta Quadrant?
Most of them, from memory. Even if it wasn't always the prime focus of an episode, there are definitely consistent reminders of Voyager's ultimate goal, and this is especially true of the later seasons.
Most of them? I'd actually argue that (with minor changes in dialog) a majority of Voyager's episodes could easily be episodes of The Next Generation. There might have been 'consistent reminders of Voyager's ultimate goal', but mostly those were just words. Leave them out, change some of the character's names and you have an episode of The Next Generation, really.
 
I think Berman/Braga made up a tiny bit for their Voyager mistakes with season 3 of Enterprise. While Enterprise didn't have the best characterisation or writing, season 3 was pretty strong in that the whole season stayed true to the ship being alone and very much in danger... a lot of people died, the ship was in constant misrepair and Archer stole an innocent ship's warpcore and left them stranded in deep space...ok maybe Janeway should never have done that.
 
I thought this was going to be character testimony from that space whale who shagged Voyager during Elogium.

This is good too.
 
After having lurked a bit more, I see a recurring theme in that Threshold is considered an absolutely terrible episode. I do not quite understand this. The best I can do is:

-The notion of travelling at infinite velocity, and thus occupying every point in space at once is scientifically ludicrous.

-Having Tom Paris enter a hyper accelerated state of evolution is equally as stupid.

-Tom and Janeway reproducing as the newly evolved lizards is at best comical relief, and at worst insulting towards the storyline.

-(from what I've read) humans evolving into lizard-like beings contradicts the Q's claim that humans will evolve to become as powerful as they are.

-Humans evolving into a 4 legged, seemingly animalistic creature seems rather counter-intuitive. You wouldn't expect sentient, intelligent life forms to revert to something more primitive.

Somehow I can stomach a lot of this scientific nonsense and simply focus on the thematic issues presented. The concept of trans-warp speed, the resulting accelerated evolution, and the reversion to a more primal being are interesting notions, even if the show doesn't present any of it in a meaningfully logical manner.

Feel free to rip me apart now, figuratively speaking.
 
I'm glad to meet a fellow fan of Voyager then. And yes, you did butcher one name. It's Chakotay, not Chicote. :D I must be in the minority that loves Chakotay and finds him to be my favorite. He was the reason I watched the show every week. :) But then again, that's just me. :)
;)

I`m part of the minority that loves Chakotay. :drool:For me he was the main reason to watch all of the seasons of Voyager too.

@ NCC-1701
I can agree with. For me Voyager's characters are what I definitely love about this series too. I like this crew . They are another reason (besides Chakotay and J/C :) ) why I kept watching and loving Voyager more than the other series.
 
Glad to see Voyager getting some love around here as well. :D

Voyager was a great show just as it was and the crew was just awesome. I had to see each episode just to know what would happen to them next. So Voyager didn't need to be "DS9-ized" in anyway. And Voyager was ranked as #14 on the best sci-fi shows of all time not so long ago. So even if it might seem that Voyager is dissed on this board, it's just the natives. Outside of hardcore fandom, fandom where no one is ever truly happy on anything, Voyager rules. :techman:
 
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I agree with Tachyon, I have watched almost all the Trek episodes from the Original Series in the 60ies through Voyager. I do hate though the idea that if an episode could have been done on NG, it shouldn't have been done on Voyager. I've said this before, if the Producers had wanted to just continue NG they could have done the Dominion war anyway.

I think a lot of the negativity toward "Voyager" comes from NG and DS9 fans that would have rather had those series go on. I can actually relate to this because I was such an original series fan that I flat couldn't see any kind of "Trek" without Spock and Kirk. I actually was prepared to hate Next Generation. My daughter however (yes I raised her on TOS reruns) had other ideas and I watched it and liked the show. I'm a pretty big Picard fan. I also liked DS9 and am a Kira and Jadzia fan. But I didn't love another Trek series until Voyager.

I think that what upsets me most is that there are people on this board that will not allow people to like Voyager without trying to point out the error of our ways LOL. If you love DS9 tell us why you love it, just don't tell us why we should dislike Voyager. It's this negativity that has driven so many people away from this board, you can ask Tachyon, or Aunt Kate, or even KimC. There are way more Voyager fans than you have any idea.

Brit
 
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