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Jennifer Lein (the actress behind Kes)

How is it not discussing her mental health to question if she took an emotional injury, and if she questioned her worth regarding physical attractiveness? ...
If you follow the film industry, you'll learn that "good looks" is part of casting and the industry, and if X actor or actress is dropped and replaced by someone with more defined looks, that's going to mess with anyone. Do you understand now?

Say you're part of the cast of a successful TV show. You find out you're being replaced by someone same-gender, better looking, richer backstory, and will get a lot more screen time than you ever did. Would that not effect you?

When I said I don't want to discuss Lien's mental health, it was in response to someone wanting to talk about what she went through in the 2010's. Talking about her career in the 90's through 2001 is not quite the same thing.
 
#1 No, I asked why she shifted to voice acting and left acting, not what she's been up to since.
#2 Gossip defined as: "a person who habitually reveals personal or sensational facts about others" or "rumor or report of an intimate nature." Something can be factually true and still be gossip. I'm just not comfortable with gossiping about an actress's mental health on a message board. :beer:

Aren't you splitting hairs? Secondly and more annoyingly, I get the sense you think I was being insensitive. It's hardly news.

It's a message board. I'm not going to apologize for bringing up a Star Trek actor's personal issues on a Star Trek board. Again, matter of public record.

I know all too well how life can suddenly veer off-course when things are off-kilter, and you add alcohol / drugs into the mix. Whatever issues she has / is struggling with, you can be assured I empathize.
 
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No interest about gossiping about her mental health from the 2010's, none of my business, yours, nor anyone else's. Being curious why she left acting is a different conversation. You know that.
Leaving acting, and her subsequent issues, are obviously connected on some level. Life is not a series of standalone episodes where the trauma of one phase has nothing to do with the struggles of the phase after.

You really should not be suggesting that anyone else is a gossip/jerk/whatever here, given that it is you who started this discussion about her mental health issues.

If you thought leaving acting had nothing to do with what happened after, that was your naivete to imagine they could be partitioned so neatly. Maybe retreat from the conversation if you didn't realize till too late that it's not the kind of conversation you want to have, rather than being condescending toward those who provided the natural response to your prompt.
 
If you follow the film industry, you'll learn that "good looks" is part of casting and the industry, and if X actor or actress is dropped and replaced by someone with more defined looks, that's going to mess with anyone. Do you understand now?
I've since switched to another field, but most of my professional life was TV casting. I've done quite a few mid-series cast changes. They were some of my bleakest professional experiences, having to recast one of the hot women because the producers concluded she wasn't hot enough, or she was "difficult", or she was so twisted into knots by trying to stay sufficiently hot and agreeable that they concluded "fuck, she seems fake!", etc etc. Regardless, I know how you present it to the world when you are firing a castmember for X reason vs Y reason.

(I would even think about Jennifer Lien when I was doing this work. I blocked attempts to do what Voyager did with the billing -- demoting Lien to guest star for her last eps, and putting the new lead in the credits immediately. I always thought that was so fucking gross of them. On my shows, if there was overlap, the outgoing regular kept their main titles spot till they were fully gone, and the new person started as a guest star)

Anyway, this is all by way of saying...

Presumptuous, leaving acting and the 2010s' events are 14 years apart, not necessarily related.
I could articulate further why it's not presumptuous, but it would be engaging in exactly the kind of discussion I don't want to have about her, and it sounds like you don't either.

This does remind me of how much I liked listening to her work being discussed on the Delta Flyers pod (Robert Duncan MacNeill and Garrett Wang's Voyager rewatch podcast). Throughout those first three seasons, there was a lot of praise from the hosts and guests about how great it was to act opposite Jennifer, how alive and present she was in the scenes, and how natural her talent was at such a young age. Ethan Phillips was a guest on the pod for "Fair Trade" and discussed how his favorite and best scene to play in all 7 years was a Neelix/Kes scene that was cut from that episode.

Also, you have given me a mission to dig out my old "The Critic" DVD boxed set. That show is a forgotten gem that was eerily ahead of it's time (a lot of it's comically idiotic fake movie trailers have since been actually made as mega-budgeted blockbusters). And in my mind, Jennifer Lien is a regular the whole time (which wasn't a long run, but it was like two or three seasons). I remember often thinking about what an exceptional voice she had, and how well suited it was to voiceover.

Now I'm wondering if it's my memory or online credits that are wrong. Did I rewatch "The Critic" so much that I was often re-encountering a one-episode performance? I really do think she was there the whole time, but it has been a couple decades.

But in my mind her character is the second-most-memorable of that whole cast (behind only the critic), so I'll really be struck if that impression is from one episode only.
 
I've since switched to another field, but most of my professional life was TV casting. I've done quite a few mid-series cast changes. They were some of my bleakest professional experiences, having to recast one of the hot women because the producers concluded she wasn't hot enough, or she was "difficult", or she was so twisted into knots by trying to stay sufficiently hot and agreeable that they concluded "fuck, she seems fake!", etc etc. Regardless, I know how you present it to the world when you are firing a castmember for X reason vs Y reason.
Thank you for taking the time to explain this aspect of the industry, I do like to read and watch vids of how the film industry works. Thanks for sharing the unfortunate side of the casting process. It sounds pretty brutal. :(
(I would even think about Jennifer Lien when I was doing this work. I blocked attempts to do what Voyager did with the billing -- demoting Lien to guest star for her last eps, and putting the new lead in the credits immediately. I always thought that was so fucking gross of them. On my shows, if there was overlap, the outgoing regular kept their main titles spot till they were fully gone, and the new person started as a guest star)
I've seen both versions of this. On TNG, Wil Wheaton stayed in the opening credits until he left the show as they didn't know going into S4 he'd leave mid-season. On Voyager, Lein is a guest star for the opening two episodes, because... she is. It gets... complicated I imagine for the new streaming shows where characters are coming and going. Over on Stargate, both approaches were taken. When Corin Nemec left the show in S7, he was reduced to guest star in the opening two episodes, though he did come back for one more episode mid-season that would end up being his last appearance on the show. Over on Atlantis, when Aiden Ford was written out, Rainbow Sun Franks (I think I got that right) remained in the opening credits for the first three episodes. I think they were wanted the swap from Rainbow to Jason Momoa to be a big surprise.

If I'm an actor getting signed up for an ongoing series, I'd be planning ahead financially for the prospect I get reduced to recurring, written out, or killed off. :eek: If I leave before the show ends, just gimme a good send-off. If I come back from the dead, either fully commit to realism or just go bonkers with it. That said, getting fired still sucks.
This does remind me of how much I liked listening to her work being discussed on the Delta Flyers pod (Robert Duncan MacNeill and Garrett Wang's Voyager rewatch podcast). Throughout those first three seasons, there was a lot of praise from the hosts and guests about how great it was to act opposite Jennifer, how alive and present she was in the scenes, and how natural her talent was at such a young age. Ethan Phillips was a guest on the pod for "Fair Trade" and discussed how his favorite and best scene to play in all 7 years was a Neelix/Kes scene that was cut from that episode.
I remember everyone was very angry that she was being cut loose. The deleted scene, is that the famous Neelix-Kes breakup scene that was filmed but cut from an episode?
Also, you have given me a mission to dig out my old "The Critic" DVD boxed set. That show is a forgotten gem that was eerily ahead of it's time (a lot of it's comically idiotic fake movie trailers have since been actually made as mega-budgeted blockbusters). And in my mind, Jennifer Lien is a regular the whole time (which wasn't a long run, but it was like two or three seasons). I remember often thinking about what an exceptional voice she had, and how well suited it was to voiceover.
I watched this back in the day. :lol:
Now I'm wondering if it's my memory or online credits that are wrong. Did I rewatch "The Critic" so much that I was often re-encountering a one-episode performance? I really do think she was there the whole time, but it has been a couple decades.
Was this the animated show that had the Seven of Nine clock? "Wake up. Resistance is futile. It's time to assimilate the day." :lol:
But in my mind her character is the second-most-memorable of that whole cast (behind only the critic), so I'll really be struck if that impression is from one episode only.
Wikipedia says she voiced Valerie Fox for the pilot episode.
 
And in my mind, Jennifer Lien is a regular the whole time (which wasn't a long run, but it was like two or three seasons). I remember often thinking about what an exceptional voice she had, and how well suited it was to voiceover.
I love The Critic. I'm almost sorry you have to find out that Lien was only in a single episode.
 
it's really sad what happened to he in recent years.

At least Jennifer Lien is still alive and haven't been involved in any problems in recent years.

So let us leave her alone and hope that she get her life back in order and can live a quiet and happy life.
 
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What happened to jennifer Lien is a tragic example of what can happen to people in showbiz where everything is free and there are a lot of temptations.
Speculation, how do we know what happened in the 2010's is at all connected to her leaving the show in 1997, there's an 18-year gap here. She hadn't acted since 2001, quit in 2002 when she became a mom, and then the first wacked out story was 2015. If this was the consequences of "the temptations of showbiz," why the 14-year delay? More likely the upper 2010's drama is unrelated to her short-lived TV/movie career.
 
Speculation, how do we know what happened in the 2010's is at all connected to her leaving the show in 1997, there's an 18-year gap here. She hadn't acted since 2001, quit in 2002 when she became a mom, and then the first wacked out story was 2015. If this was the consequences of "the temptations of showbiz," why the 14-year delay? More likely the upper 2010's drama is unrelated to her short-lived TV/movie career.
Yes, It came out wrong from my side. It was speculation and not what I intented to write. I was going to write about her being depressed about being fired which obviously happened when she was dumped.

I've removed the comment now.

Actually she did seem to be fine from the early 2000's and to 2015. In 2010 she was interviewed on the www.startrek.com site where she talked about her family life and her studies.

Then all of a sudden there was a lot of bad news about her so I guessed what caused it happened between 2010 and 2015.

Really sad because she was a great actress.
 
Yes, It came out wrong from my side. It was speculation and not what I intented to write. I was going to write about her being depressed about being fired which obviously happened when she was dumped.

I've removed the comment now.

Actually she did seem to be fine from the early 2000's and to 2015. In 2010 she was interviewed on the www.startrek.com site where she talked about her family life and her studies.

Then all of a sudden there was a lot of bad news about her so I guessed what caused it happened between 2010 and 2015.

Really sad because she was a great actress.
I would like to insert some optimism. When people do sketchy nonsense and get in trouble with the laws, people always assume drugs, alcohol, or "mental health." People don't take into account that it could be neurological. She could have been physically ill such as a stroke or head injury. You just never know why someone goes bonkers out of nowhere for a season, only to get better and move on.
 
I would like to insert some optimism. When people do sketchy nonsense and get in trouble with the laws, people always assume drugs, alcohol, or "mental health." People don't take into account that it could be neurological. She could have been physically ill such as a stroke or head injury. You just never know why someone goes bonkers out of nowhere for a season, only to get better and move on.
That's possible.

But since I don't know Jennifer or any friends or relatives to her, I won't theorize or speculate about it. Unfortunately, the information I have is only third-hand and not entirely reliable either.

But personally, I think that she was hurt by being fired from Voyager, although I don't think that it was the reason for what happened in 2015 and onwards.
 
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