A lover defends Voyager

[exodus]

It's no different than a straight male not wanting to see two men kiss.

Which, personally, I find just as questionable. But opinions seem to differ.

I think I can accept that one finds it off-putting. But stopping to watch a series because of it? That's just strange, methinks.

Think about the fight for gay marriage.

I can't speak for Freak, but some people are morally offended by homosexuality that they won't watching anything featuring it. Remember, around this same thime people were up in arms over the same sex kiss on "Rosanne".

 

[Frazzled]

How can you not like Odo? IMO he’s one of the most unique characters in all the Star Trek I’ve experienced so far (though many of you are making me aware of how little that is). He has enigmatic qualities having belonged to a race that nobody knows about, he is considered to be an objective onlooker, which raises interesting insights, and he has a nice sense of humour to boot.


Anyway, no one addressed my question about Threshold. What makes it so horrendously bad that it is considered one of the worst episodes of all time?

Agree entirely about Odo - he's interesting etc etc. But I don't like him. I found him a wee bit creepy.

I thought Threshold was funny, if not exactly the best story ever. I suppose I didn't mind it so much as others because implausability doesn't as a general rule bother me. I wouldn't rate it the very worst Voyager, that for me would either be Endgame, or Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy which I found excruciating.

 

[TheGodBen]

Anyway, no one addressed my question about Threshold. What makes it so horrendously bad that it is considered one of the worst episodes of all time?

Tom Paris and Captain Janeway turned into lizards and had little lizard babies before being turned back into human beings via magic. Not to mention how the episode has absolutely no understanding of evolutionary biology.

As for the lesbian kiss on DS9, it was one scene in one episode and it never even happened again. Why would you stop watching a fantastic TV series because of the events of one stand-alone episode which was never referenced again?

 

[Jaespol]

Didn't realise so many Star Trek fans were homophobes.

 

[exodus]

Didn't realise so many Star Trek fans were homophobes.

So is it Heterophobic when gay people hate seeing straight people kiss?

But seriously, I think were going off in the wrong direction over one opinion of one poster. Let's not forget, Trek also teaches us to be respectful of everyone, even if we don't share their point of view. None of us are perfect.

After all, we're here to talk Trek, not judge others on their opinions of each others life style choices or their opinions of it in turn.

 

[Jaespol]

Didn't realise so many Star Trek fans were homophobes.

So is it Heterophobic when gay people hate seeing straight people kiss?

Yeah it is I guess.
I just think its absolutely ridiculous to stop watching DS9 because of two ladies kissing.

 

[KimMH]

*Flame Shields ON!*

People hate threshold because it's so silly but packaged so earnestly. I love it because it's ridiculous like Spock's Brain (watching/reading/Loving all things Trek since 1970s) - sometimes the camp factor is higher than some prefer and it offends some. I like to remember that as much of life is ridicoulus as is sublime (thank you Jane Austen). If you can't have fun with a TV show you might need to go outside and get some sun on your head!

 

[exodus]

Didn't realise so many Star Trek fans were homophobes.

So is it Heterophobic when gay people hate seeing straight people kiss?

Yeah it is I guess.
I just think its absolutely ridiculous to stop watching DS9 because of two ladies kissing.

I've known Freak for a very long time & is one of the nicest most caring people I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. She's also one of the best posters on the board I MOD for. So whatever negitive or judgements people pass on her, I know for a fact that her positives greatly out weigh her negitives and am greatly honored to call her friend.

I will say this, while people have sat here and called her ridiculous & homophobic, she hasn't said one bad thing in return about any of you.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Gene said they were all bisexual, except Jim Kirk. All of them.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

I’ve read on a few occasions about people who thought Voyager was decent in seasons 1-4 but dropped the ball afterwards. I’ll find the exact quotes if you don’t believe me.
QUOTE]

^ Meh, I messed up that quote sorry.

Oh I believe you, I've seen that opinion lots of times. Just saying that I don't think it represents how most people here feel. If anything I think the opposite is true, I see more 4-7 fans here than 1-3 fans.

 

[Jaespol]

I’ve read on a few occasions about people who thought Voyager was decent in seasons 1-4 but dropped the ball afterwards. I’ll find the exact quotes if you don’t believe me.
QUOTE]

^ Meh, I messed up that quote sorry.

Oh I believe you, I've seen that opinion lots of times. Just saying that I don't think it represents how most people here feel. If anything I think the opposite is true, I see more 4-7 fans here than 1-3 fans.

My favorite seasons were 4+5
Next to that is 3 + 6

 

[neogothboy74]

I also gave DS9 a chance and loved it until that lesbian episode with Jadzia and that woman who was her wife when she was a man previously. That threw me for a loop and I stopped watching DS9 because of that. It just creeped me out.

I will say this, while people have sat here and called her ridiculous & homophobic, she hasn't said one bad thing in return about any of you.

No. But I can tell you, that as a gay Star Trek fan, when you hear that someone gave up watching an amazing series because they were 'creeped out' by a mild display of affection between two women, that it is just as offensive as if she had said she'd given DS9 a chance but then saw that the commander was black and was creeped out and stopped watching it as a result. It's not the same bigotry, but that doesn't make it any less hurtful or insulting. Bigotry is ridiculous. And homophobia should be called out whenever it rears it's ugly head. I'm not saying that this person deserves to be called names or hunted down with pitchforks; I just think that when someone makes such a statement that it should be acknowledged for what it is.

Carry on.

 

[Tachyon]

As for the lesbian kiss on DS9, it was one scene in one episode and it never even happened again. Why would you stop watching a fantastic TV series because of the events of one stand-alone episode which was never referenced again?

This applies to all Trek series from TOS to VOY (sorry ENT fans, but for now I have to exclude ENT since I have seen only few random episodes and therefore I cannot have say if the show is good or bad or something in between.)

DS9 and VGR were different because they were spinoffs in the 'new' TNG era, rather than being a sequel to a 20-year old show. Each had a unique premise, different from TOS or TNG - the theme was still exploration (and ultimately, via metaphor, exploration of humanity) but DS9 was based around the idea of a remote 'Frontier town' concept and VGR based around the idea of a ship stranded with few resources in a remote, uncharted area of space.

Well my dear Romulan friend, that is a matter of perspective. I do get your point, but I perceive the matter little differently. You categorize DS9 and VOY in the same class whereas I look the similarities from all series from TSO to VOY. And therefore, whereas someone says Voyager is a TNG rip-off, I say it's its sibling, continuing on a same path like TOS and TNG did. It didn't matter if they were in Alpha or Delta Quadrant. It was all about adventures of a starship boldly going where no man has gone before.

The main criticism to DS9 I have seen always seem to come to one main point that being "Star Trek on a space station? WTF?!" Even if I don't totally agree with this criticms, I can see the point of that as well. I personally prefer to "boldy go where no man has gone before" than just standing still between religious planet and stabil wormhole. Nevertheless, I understand that DS9 was what it was. Though not perfect in anyway, I don't see the point of criticizing it by demanding that it should have been more of "boldly go where no man has gone before" type of show, when it was not.

I hope I make some sense here. Tee hee.

 

[Praetor]

I do think I understand that you perceive it differently my friend Tachyon, and I do hope I wasn't overly blunt in trying to get my point across. To me, however, my differing view is why I hold them to different (you might even say higher) standards.

 

[Falcor5]

Oh, and just for kicks, Voyager has the best cast of minor characters. While TNG has Whoopi Goldberg (lol), and DS9 has Nog and O’Brian’s wife, Voyager has a creepy male Vulcan in Vorak, a sociopath beta-zoid, and a stuttering, awkard, but ultimately brilliant man in Barkley.

What is so funny about Whoopi Goldberg's character Guinan? She had a very important part in quite a few episodes and she definitely was not some joke character. And just so you know Barclay was a recurring character on TNG too and was not introduced in Voyager.

 

[Michael]

What is so funny about Whoopi Goldberg's character Guinan? She had a very important part in quite a few episodes and she definitely was not some joke character.

To be fair, she was often used as comic relief on TNG. Yes, she is a serious character, but she does crack a joke every now and then.

 

[Vykan12]

What is so funny about Whoopi Goldberg's character Guinan? She had a very important part in quite a few episodes and she definitely was not some joke character. And just so you know Barclay was a recurring character on TNG too and was not introduced in Voyager.

She flirts with Reiker, gives love advice to Wes, and her advice in general is excrutiatingly generic and predictable. Moreover, although she usually plays a very minor role in the show, in one episode we first discover she's an elf out of nowhere and it serves as a major plot point in that episode. That felt completely arbitrary and artificial to me.

 

[Falcor5]

What is so funny about Whoopi Goldberg's character Guinan? She had a very important part in quite a few episodes and she definitely was not some joke character.

To be fair, she was often used as comic relief on TNG. Yes, she is a serious character, but she does crack a joke every now and then.

Yes for sure but I never considered her to be a comic type character like sometimes Lwaxana Troi was.

 

[Michael]

Moreover, although she usually plays a very minor role in the show, in one episode we first discover she's an elf out of nowhere and it serves as a major plot point in that episode.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Which episode would that be?

 

[Jaespol]

What is so funny about Whoopi Goldberg's character Guinan? She had a very important part in quite a few episodes and she definitely was not some joke character. And just so you know Barclay was a recurring character on TNG too and was not introduced in Voyager.

She flirts with Reiker, gives love advice to Wes, and her advice in general is excrutiatingly generic and predictable. Moreover, although she usually plays a very minor role in the show, in one episode we first discover she's an elf out of nowhere and it serves as a major plot point in that episode. That felt completely arbitrary and artificial to me.

By elf do you mean that she lives for like ever?