Scotty as second officer
- Thread starter Lance
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I did not want to go into the weeds about the pre-Civil War army, but I would disagree with Wikipedia that brevets were common to promote US Army officers before the Civil War, except for brevet second lieutenants which were indeed routine because there were more cadets graduating from the Military Academy than there were second lieutenant slots to post them to. Legally an officer could be advanced by brevet to serve in a higher post, but in fact this was almost never done. The overwhelming vast majority of brevet promotions in the 19th century were for gallantry or meritorious service 1812-1815, 1847 and of course 1861-1865.
A digitized 1877 book with probably more than you'd ever want to read on the subject, The History and Legal Effect of Brevets in the Armies of Great Britain and the United States, from their Origin in 1692 to the Present Time by James Barnet Fry, colonel, late brigadier general, brevet major general, US Army:
https://archive.org/details/historyandlegal00frygoog
Not sure what Roddenberry said, but this is what is says at http://www.startrek.com/database_article/chapel:
2266 – As brevet ensign, signed aboard U.S.S. Enterprise of Capt. James T. Kirk as nurse
There are four lines of work where Starfleet officers might arguably hold high rank yet not mess up the chain of command or order of succession or whatnot, letting mere Lieutenant Commanders hold the center stage:
1) Chief Engineer. This specialist would need to tend to the engines so much that he or she might not have time and patience for command duties. But at least he or she would be eminently educated in what makes starships go and what they can and cannot do.
2) Chief of Security. Again, a specialist line of work, but perhals also one that might in fact be so demanding that the poor gal or guy has not had time to get training on operating starships at all.
3) Chief of Sciences. Again, might not know much about operating starships. Some key underlings might also hold high rank - perhaps the resident computer wizard or Records Officer could stand outside the chain of command, too.
4) Chief Sawbones. Some of our medical heroes have indicated proficiency or even training in command, but others have denounced this line of work altogether.
Whenever we see a blueshirt Commander, then, we need not rethink the chain of command - he or she may be standing on the sidewalk and just watching. TOS Redshirts have two excuses to do that, but this is offset by our heroic Chief Engineer actually having command duties on screen. And the TOS goldshirts with lots of braid have it the worst of all. What line of work could be associated with the "command color" yet not step on Spock's toes? Happily, we only ever see one of those, if we disregard Finney as a thief.
Timo Saloniemi
Maybe Finney had to take a temporary grade reduction to LTCMDR to serve on the Enterprise under Kirk, and he was wearing his own old shirts. Even better for the drama if it is because he has to take that grade reduction because they won't let him be XO over LTCMDR Spock. That sure adds punch to the line "The Enterprise should have been mine. You kept me from it."
To relate this to the original post, like I said before, in episodes with 1000's star dates, maybe Kirk is technically still Pike's relief captain. He comes in with Mitchell and Finney, thinking to set up his won team, then finds Spock and Scotty have things well in hand, even after Kelso is killed. Kirk becomes the captain outright, and has to figure out which dept head becomes XO. It ends up being Spock because Mitchell and Kelso are dead; Finney is in the slammer; Bones/Piper are not qualified, Scotty wants to focus on the engine room.
Does all this make Finney sound obsessed with Kirk and the Enterprise? Sure. The thing is, I would argue that's good for the episode, and after all, Finney did name his daughter Jamie, even though he secretly may have hated Kirk. Sounds obsessed to me, almost obsessed enough for a starship captain in TOS
To relate this to the original post, like I said before, in episodes with 1000's star dates, maybe Kirk is technically still Pike's relief captain. He comes in with Mitchell and Finney, thinking to set up his won team, then finds Spock and Scotty have things well in hand, even after Kelso is killed. Kirk becomes the captain outright, and has to figure out which dept head becomes XO. It ends up being Spock because Mitchell and Kelso are dead; Finney is in the slammer; Bones/Piper are not qualified, Scotty wants to focus on the engine room.
Does all this make Finney sound obsessed with Kirk and the Enterprise? Sure. The thing is, I would argue that's good for the episode, and after all, Finney did name his daughter Jamie, even though he secretly may have hated Kirk. Sounds obsessed to me, almost obsessed enough for a starship captain in TOS
...We then get to the old chestnut of how old Jamie was supposed to be. Kirk is in his early thirties; Finney is supposed to be a colleague rather than a childhood friend. Even if Jamie is a particularly mature-looking thirteen-year-old, Finney naming her after Kirk is iffy, and Finney naming her after a Kirk he hates is more or less ruled out.
The idea of Finney being forced to slum it out on the Enterprise at artificially reduced rank is fascinating. It just takes some doing to understand why he would accept (because he needs this for his murderous plans?) and why Kirk would do it to him or let him do it to himself (wouldn't that be really suspicious in general, let alone between friends/enemies?). The casualty scenario here does help with this.
Timo Saloniemi
The idea of Finney being forced to slum it out on the Enterprise at artificially reduced rank is fascinating. It just takes some doing to understand why he would accept (because he needs this for his murderous plans?) and why Kirk would do it to him or let him do it to himself (wouldn't that be really suspicious in general, let alone between friends/enemies?). The casualty scenario here does help with this.
Timo Saloniemi
But he was a good Officer....
JB
JB
Incidentally, it was a small part in an episode with some flaws, but I always thought Richard Webb did a wonderful job as Finney.
He had a real strong voice I always thought!
JB
JB
Zactly! One of my favorite touches in Court Martial is how, in the computer-recorded flashbacks, Finney sounds completely calm and authoritative, contrasted by how he sounds when they find him in Engineering. Outstanding vocal range!
Indeed. It's a bit of a shame we don't actually see him until we do. I mean, yeah, preserving the dramatic tension, meting out the excitement, all that. But it still seems a bit artificial.
Then again, we never saw Finney before this adventure. It would be a bit jarring to put him in front of the cameras now, in-universe... And perhaps the Records Officer is one of those the most entitled to spending time away from the limelights, being essentially the local IT wizard and sustaining himself on cold colorful cubes and aged celery in a darkened office somewhere belowdecks.
Timo Saloniemi
Then again, we never saw Finney before this adventure. It would be a bit jarring to put him in front of the cameras now, in-universe... And perhaps the Records Officer is one of those the most entitled to spending time away from the limelights, being essentially the local IT wizard and sustaining himself on cold colorful cubes and aged celery in a darkened office somewhere belowdecks.
Timo Saloniemi
"Aye, aye, Sir!" and his top must have shrunk while he was hiding down in engineering too!
JB
LOL! I ran into an old colleague not too long ago; he had his kids with him. I said something smart-assed about letting us know when his oldest girl was getting her driver's permit. He looked at me very annoyed and told me: She only ten years old.
So, who's to say that Jamie was even 13 yet????
I agree with this, especially if the ion pod was down near the shuttle bay and by a separate control room like in TOS Remastered.
Finney outranking Spock would not prevent Spock from being first officer or exercising the authority that came with that position.
The first officer isn't automatically the second highest ranking person on the ship.
Wow, I always thought it would be.
DeSalle is clearly high up the pecking order as well if comes to the bridge after his transfer to engineering. Is Sulu the default commander below Scotty and DeSalle below him unless a) Kirk appoints the officer of the Deck and no major crisis erupts or b) Someone of higher rank steps in instead.
I think that below Scotty it may depend on the situation when there are other officers of equal rank. A number of episodes without Sulu strongly hint at Uhura being in command although it would not be shown. Perhaps Desalle was placed in charge because he was an engineer and Tyrus 7 was being prospected for mining?
It seems that Communications Officer is a higher position than navigator in TOS, since Uhura can take over the navigation job, once wore green. I speculate that she may have been Pike's navigator in his second five-year mission, and then there were many navigators until Kirk found the right candidate with Chekov.
Ugh, this reminds me of that glimpse of a full commander in the briefing room in (I believe) "The Enterprise Incident." Excepting people who weren't officers of the line like McCoy, there shouldn't have been anyone who outranked Scotty besides Spock. Derp, and Kirk. 
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