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"Chain Of Command"

Brie

Commander
Red Shirt
We all know Star Trek is a show for thinkers, but every now and then an episode comes along that is so powerful that it never leaves your mind. For me that episode was "Chain Of Command" Parts I and II from the Next Generation. I don't think any other episode of Star Trek has hit me quite as hard as that one. If you haven't seen this particular episode let me give you a quick synopsis.

Captain Picard goes on an away mission with Beverly and Worf to destroy a Cardassian weapon of mass destruction, the plan is all a trap and everyone escapes except for Picard who is taken prisoner by the Cardassians. The cardassian who is holding Picard prisioner uses a vast aray of torture techniques (and they aren't shy on showing the horrifying graphic nature of it) He then moves onto another method...he hookes up a device that induces insane amounts of pain at the push of a button, the pain can be increased at will. He then shows Picard four very bright lights and demand he say that there are 5, inflicting increasing pain if Picard disagrees. This goes on for a while with Picard refusing to give in, then after days of this the cardassian offers Picard a choice "remain in captivity for his whole life...or say there are 5 lights and live in comfort on Cardassia. Picard ponders for a moment and as he is about to answer another cardassian enters saying Picard has been granted release. Once his restraints are removed he walks away, stops turns around and screams crying at the top of his lungs "There were four lights!" Once back on the Enterprise he sits with counselor Troi to talk about what happened and at one point he turns to her and says that, he was willing to admit anything for the torture to stop, but what really concerned him was for a moment...he really saw five lights."

This episode was a testament to the kind of psychological effect torture has on the human psyche. For a moment Picard was so broken that his brain actually fabricated a fifth light causing him to momentarily lose sanity. Being in the military we are trained for capture situations and the idea never really frightened me. This episode however put fear into me. It shows just how sadistic people can be and how damaging an experience like that can be. I thought a lot about that episode and even to this day it haunts me. The idea of having to endure such torture is unfathomable, and even though Star Trek is fictional, that portrayal scared me more than any real life reenactment ever has. On top of that Patrick Stewart did such a phenomenal job acting in that episode that I would say it was his best performance ever. He was so convincing that I almost thought they WERE actually torturing him. If you haven't seen this episode please go watch it.

That was my eye opening episode, but what I want to know is were there any episodes of Star Trek that have hit you so hard that you will never forget them as long as you live? If so what episode and why did it have such a profound effect on you? I can't wait to hear what everyone has to say!
 
I don't recall having ever seen that episode. Your brilliant synopsis makes it clear that it is probably one of the exceptional episodes. But, also because of your brilliant synopsis, I don't think ill ever be able to watch it! :weep: you see, I was military too. And my brother is currently overseas. Like you, this stuff scares the crap out of me!:scream:
But, thanks to you, I know now what the "four lights " refers to when I see it in media.

Thank you for your service! :)
 
Ok, so I can't isolate one episode at the moment.

But, probably for me, some of the most powerful moments occurred on Enterprise during the Xindi arc. There were several scenes over several episodes.

Scenes like : Archer torturing the Nausican (?) in the airlock...Archer boarding the Irillian (sp) vessel for the warp core...Degra firing on a Reptilian vessel...the battle of Azati Prime, and the destruction afterwards...

I never commanded more than a platoon myself, but the decisions Archer - and Degra- faced really affected me. Also, the death of so many was sobering.

I'm sure there are more. But this is just off the top of my head. And it's because I was viewing it from the perspective of a soldier.
 
Chain of Command is definitely one of the more interesting episodes of TNG, in my opinion (Pegasus being my favorite in terms of character moments). I agree with Picard's psychological impact (the man needs serious counseling-Borg and this).

Secondly, it is an interesting look in to the different command styles, Picard versus Jelico. While I don't like Jelico as much (I think that is the idea) there is definitely a more military feel to his ship, especially in how he wants to present his ship to the Cardassians.

Finally, you are quite correct in the psychology of torture. Not only that, but how Macet dehumanizes Picard to keep the torture going. It is definitely a look at how soldiers on the other side are made to be "the other" during a fight.

Great episode. Well worth a watch!

Great post. Thank you for sharing :)
 
I don't recall having ever seen that episode. Your brilliant synopsis makes it clear that it is probably one of the exceptional episodes. But, also because of your brilliant synopsis, I don't think ill ever be able to watch it! :weep: you see, I was military too. And my brother is currently overseas. Like you, this stuff scares the crap out of me!:scream:
But, thanks to you, I know now what the "four lights " refers to when I see it in media.

Thank you for your service! :)
As much as the episode impacted me I would also say it was one of the greatest Trek episodes ever, and if you don't watch it, you are seriously missing out. It has some of Patrick Stewart's best acting and a very strong plot. I recommend watching it! And thank you :) as well as a thank you to yourself as well.
 
Chain of Command (owing to the torture) was TNG episode that my parents wouldn't let me watch as a child.

:)
 
Ok, Brie, I watched it today and it was good!
The torture scenes were disturbing enough, but the psychological game the captor was playing with Picard was intriguing!

And I'm trying to figure out where I know "Jellico" from ..(the character, not the actor). I do believe I served with a few of those "types" in the military! :p
 
Ok, Brie, I watched it today and it was good!
The torture scenes were disturbing enough, but the psychological game the captor was playing with Picard was intriguing!

And I'm trying to figure out where I know "Jellico" from ..(the character, not the actor). I do believe I served with a few of those "types" in the military! :p
I'm glad you watched it!!! I'm also glad you liked it. It really is a phenomenal episode.
 
Ok, Brie, I watched it today and it was good!
The torture scenes were disturbing enough, but the psychological game the captor was playing with Picard was intriguing!

And I'm trying to figure out where I know "Jellico" from ..(the character, not the actor). I do believe I served with a few of those "types" in the military! :p

Ronny Cox (Jellico) is a character actor who's done TONS of TV and film. Some of his major film roles were Deliverance, as well as being the main badguys in the original RoboCop and Total Recall. He also appeared on "Stargate SG1" a few times as the Vice President.
 
And I'm trying to figure out where I know "Jellico" from ..(the character, not the actor). I do believe I served with a few of those "types" in the military! :p

Ronny Cox (Jellico) is a character actor who's done TONS of TV and film. Some of his major film roles were Deliverance, as well as being the main badguys in the original RoboCop and Total Recall. He also appeared on "Stargate SG1" a few times as the Vice President.
He said, "the character not the actor" Jellico reminds him of someone he knows.
 
And I'm trying to figure out where I know "Jellico" from ..(the character, not the actor). I do believe I served with a few of those "types" in the military! :p

Ronny Cox (Jellico) is a character actor who's done TONS of TV and film. Some of his major film roles were Deliverance, as well as being the main badguys in the original RoboCop and Total Recall. He also appeared on "Stargate SG1" a few times as the Vice President.
He said, "the character not the actor" Jellico reminds him of someone he knows.

Yes Tosk, I was referring to the character. But, thank you, t_smitts, for your reply. :) The actor also seemed rather familiar to me. I think it was Stargate I recognized him from.
 
Ronny Cox (Jellico) is a character actor who's done TONS of TV and film. Some of his major film roles were Deliverance, as well as being the main badguys in the original RoboCop and Total Recall. He also appeared on "Stargate SG1" a few times as the Vice President.
He said, "the character not the actor" Jellico reminds him of someone he knows.

Yes Tosk, I was referring to the character. But, thank you, t_smitts, for your reply. :) The actor also seemed rather familiar to me. I think it was Stargate I recognized him from.
I hated that character! He was so snarky and kind of a dick to be frank lol.
 
That was my eye opening episode, but what I want to know is were there any episodes of Star Trek that have hit you so hard that you will never forget them as long as you live? If so what episode and why did it have such a profound effect on you? I can't wait to hear what everyone has to say!

DS9 "In the Pale Moonlight."
It shows the realities of the human condition.

Perhaps the Federation has a utopia within its borders, but there's still a whole universe of empires and governments that don't agree with its ideals, and just aim for conquest. So how do you confront that?

Kor
 
We all know Star Trek is a show for thinkers, but every now and then an episode comes along that is so powerful that it never leaves your mind. For me that episode was "Chain Of Command" Parts I and II from the Next Generation. I don't think any other episode of Star Trek has hit me quite as hard as that one.

---snip---

That was my eye opening episode, but what I want to know is were there any episodes of Star Trek that have hit you so hard that you will never forget them as long as you live? If so what episode and why did it have such a profound effect on you? I can't wait to hear what everyone has to say!
I have just been discussing Chain of Command myself, and the powerful and disturbing current day analogies it takes me to. Like you I find it striking in its impact on me.

A second one, since you ask, is DS9: In The Pale Moonlight. Again powerful in the insight of moving to a point of crossing my own moral & ethical boundaries that impacted me profoundly and unforgettably. Again, with current day disturbing analogies that can be made.

A third is the OriginalSeries: Balance of Terror. For me once again profound in the 'Us' vs 'Them' in social & theistic & ideological confrontations where I could stop seeing 'Them' as individuals to validate 'Us' behavior. This episode impacted me deeply and brings me back again and again.

The above three examples impact me in this area: "There will always be those who mean to do us harm. To stop them, we risk awakening the same evil within ourselves", always cautioning me to guard myself against the degradation of my chosen values.

The fourth is NextGeneration: The Defector. An admirable person giving up everything to whistle blow for good, manipulated by persons of ill will for their own ends. For me it was chilling and strongly cautionary.

The final being NextGeneration: The Drumhead. A person whose life is dedicated to protecting what she believes, being seduced and unquestioned as she devolves into righteous unfettered manipulation of facts to build the cases that supports her per-conceived conclusions. And the disturbing Real World analogies.

PICARD: We think we've come so far. The torture of heretics, the burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then, before you can blink an eye, it suddenly threatens to start all over again.
WORF: I believed her. I helped her. I did not see what she was.
PICARD: Mister Worf, villains who wear twirl their moustaches are easy to spot. Those who clothe themselves in good deeds are well camouflaged.

These episodes are never far from my mind as I struggle to maintain a hopefully 'good person doing good things' Llife choices and awareness.
 
Oh, the look on Jellico/Ronnie Cox's face when Riker says "you're welcome." And Frakes did very well this ep too, I thought.

This is the second time in as many weeks that Chain of Command has come up for me, now I have to rewatch.
 
There are a lot of episodes that are powerful and have a great message. The ones that immediately come to mind to me are:

TNG - Darmok, Tapestry or a personal favorite: Skin of Evil, where Tasha is zapped by a guy in a trash bag covered in motor oil. I think this one was cool because they didn't really solve the guy's issues. They just left his azz there for a supposed eternity in quarantine. I guess it just goes to show you that there isn't always an answer, except to leave the issue unresolved. Data learns a little about death in the end too.

ENT: Cogenitor. This is another personal fave. Trip tries to do the right thing and the cogenitor ends up killing themselves, which causes the Captain to flip his lid. I think this is one of the best ST episodes ever because it seemed to prelude the beginning of the prime directive. No matter how well-meaning you may be, sometimes your assistance can only foul things up when you try to impose your values on another culture.
 
DS9: The Visitor. Ben Sisko dies unexpectedly and Jake has to deal with it. But he doesn't die but is in another dimension (or something) and Jake is able to see him every decade or so. Jake spends his whole life obsessed with finding a way to get his dad back rather than go on and live his own life even though Ben says that he should forget about him and move on.

At the time I watched this episode, my wife was dealing with the sudden loss of her sister. It had already been a few years and she was still having a difficult time. It instantly reminded me of her situation and I asked her to watch it with me. She loved it and I think it really helped her to move on. It's the one episode in all of Star Trek that I always remember.
 
We all know Star Trek is a show for thinkers, but every now and then an episode comes along that is so powerful that it never leaves your mind. For me that episode was "Chain Of Command" Parts I and II from the Next Generation. I don't think any other episode of Star Trek has hit me quite as hard as that one. If you haven't seen this particular episode let me give you a quick synopsis.

Captain Picard goes on an away mission with Beverly and Worf to destroy a Cardassian weapon of mass destruction, the plan is all a trap and everyone escapes except for Picard who is taken prisoner by the Cardassians. The cardassian who is holding Picard prisioner uses a vast aray of torture techniques (and they aren't shy on showing the horrifying graphic nature of it) He then moves onto another method...he hookes up a device that induces insane amounts of pain at the push of a button, the pain can be increased at will. He then shows Picard four very bright lights and demand he say that there are 5, inflicting increasing pain if Picard disagrees. This goes on for a while with Picard refusing to give in, then after days of this the cardassian offers Picard a choice "remain in captivity for his whole life...or say there are 5 lights and live in comfort on Cardassia. Picard ponders for a moment and as he is about to answer another cardassian enters saying Picard has been granted release. Once his restraints are removed he walks away, stops turns around and screams crying at the top of his lungs "There were four lights!" Once back on the Enterprise he sits with counselor Troi to talk about what happened and at one point he turns to her and says that, he was willing to admit anything for the torture to stop, but what really concerned him was for a moment...he really saw five lights."

This episode was a testament to the kind of psychological effect torture has on the human psyche. For a moment Picard was so broken that his brain actually fabricated a fifth light causing him to momentarily lose sanity. Being in the military we are trained for capture situations and the idea never really frightened me. This episode however put fear into me. It shows just how sadistic people can be and how damaging an experience like that can be. I thought a lot about that episode and even to this day it haunts me. The idea of having to endure such torture is unfathomable, and even though Star Trek is fictional, that portrayal scared me more than any real life reenactment ever has. On top of that Patrick Stewart did such a phenomenal job acting in that episode that I would say it was his best performance ever. He was so convincing that I almost thought they WERE actually torturing him. If you haven't seen this episode please go watch it.

That was my eye opening episode, but what I want to know is were there any episodes of Star Trek that have hit you so hard that you will never forget them as long as you live? If so what episode and why did it have such a profound effect on you? I can't wait to hear what everyone has to say!


Chain of Command was a great episode.

I think a lot of the TOS episodes have and will stay with me forever because I grew up on the reruns. I have a few favorites which are usually on top tens lists.

Corbomite Maneuver--We basically get to see Kirk play poker with a unknown alien and face destruction. The episode had sense urgency, fear of the unknown and a big giant ball of a alien ship that dwarfed the enterprise. When I was a little kid seeing this episode I was enthralled and thought about it for days after.

City on the Edge of Forever--This episode had great acting all around. This episode has a lot going for it. A great alien entity in the mysterious guardian of forever, time travel and a episode that really showed the strong friendship between Kirk, Spock and McCoy. Seeing Kirk ecstatic to see his friend McCoy alive and well but then have to stop McCoy from saving a women he just fell in love with was a excellent scene and hasn't really been topped in any of the series or movies in my opinion.

I have other favorites from TOS and the other series but its late and these were the first 2 that I thought of.
 
This episode was a testament to the kind of psychological effect torture has on the human psyche... Being in the military we are trained for capture situations and the idea never really frightened me. This episode however put fear into me. It shows just how sadistic people can be and how damaging an experience like that can be.
Star Trek made an effort, though fundamental limitations on showing pain to a spectator apply. Pain is always experienced in the now because there's no memory of it. Something either hurts now or it doesn't hurt anymore. This is unlike visual memory which can be pretty good. I don't know if torture is always sadistic in nature: often it's a calculated tactic used by people who are otherwise as nice and caring as anyone else. There is a moral taboo against it, of course, but taboos have to be taught. They aren't part of human instinct.
 
This episode was a testament to the kind of psychological effect torture has on the human psyche... Being in the military we are trained for capture situations and the idea never really frightened me. This episode however put fear into me. It shows just how sadistic people can be and how damaging an experience like that can be.
Star Trek made an effort, though fundamental limitations on showing pain to a spectator apply. Pain is always experienced in the now because there's no memory of it.
I must be misreading this somehow. Surely you're not saying that experiencing pain without seeing it happening is forgotten. That's not what you are saying, right?
Something either hurts now or it doesn't hurt anymore.
Now you're just kidding, right?
This is unlike visual memory which can be pretty good.
What are you talking about?
I don't know if torture is always sadistic in nature: often it's a calculated tactic used by people who are otherwise as nice and caring as anyone else.
Wait. What?

This is, I don't know what this is.
There is a moral taboo against it, of course, but taboos have to be taught. They aren't part of human instinct.
A taboo. There is a taboo against something that is cruel?

What are you talking about?
 
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